• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Resurrection of Christ: Literal fact or spiritual reality?

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
The word is not best rendered nations but peoples, but if it helps, they found tribes last month who are yet to hear the gospel . . . but yes, Christ is coming soon.

So according to your reckoning any day now?

I have no idea where you learned that poor Christian doctrines is the reference of Revelation's best interpretation, but I can tell you concretely there have been poor doctrine since the days of the apostles, and even Paul warned of apocrypha going out under his name as author.

I have gained my knowledge from the One who is the fulfilment of Daniel 9:24-27

The best way to understand Revelation is literal. It is, after all, almost 65% near-direct quotations of OT prophecy.

Literal interpretation is the road the Jews went down and look what happened. The One who would sit on the throne of David....
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Jesus willingly came down and offered his flesh in our behalf. The Bible teaches us that God resurrected him. He was resurrected in the spirit, back to his life of what he was prior, and because of his sacrifice he was granted the #2 position in heaven, sitting at Jehovah's right hand.

capumetu @yours.com no space after u
That sounds a little like the Jehovah Witnesses?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
So Luke, who wasn't a witness but heard the preaching of eye witnesses (probably Paul given Luke was allegedly a gentile), was convinced that Jesus physically rose from the dead (his body did not decay, he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead), raised to life for 40 days (note the symbolism of 40 throughout the bible as a time of testing ie the Hebrews in the desert with Moses and Jesus prior to His ministry), taken up to heaven (? through the stratosphere unless you want to take it metaphorically) to sit on His heavenly throne.

Must be a physical resurrection! Right!?
I don't understand how you take the virgin birth story as a literal fact, but then you make Jesus coming back to life a scientific impossibility? So, from those verses in Acts, show me how it was meant to be allegorical. And here are a few from Luke's gospel:

Luke 24 1-7

…the women … found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3 but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus… suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them…. the men said to them, “Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6 He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: 7 ‘The Son of Man must be delivered over to the hands of sinners, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.’ ”

Verses 22-23

…some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive.

Verses 36-39

Jesus himself stood among them … He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

It sure seems like he's telling facts, things that really happened. Are they true? Do they make sense? No, they are ridiculous. They sound like superstitious religious myth. But, Christians believe them, and Baha'is don't believe it as fact. But, the resurrection of Jesus is the most important thing in Christianity. Like Paul said, that if Jesus hasn't been raised, then Christians should be the most pitied. They believed it, and they died believing it. So do you really think early Christians would they have given their lives if the resurrection was only an allegory?

Isn't it somewhat misleading of God to "inspire" people to write these things as if they were real events? Then, almost 2000 years later, tell them the truth... that Jesus didn't come back to life. It was only a "spiritual" resurrection?
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't understand how you take the virgin birth story as a literal fact, but then you make Jesus coming back to life a scientific impossibility? So, from those verses in Acts, show me how it was meant to be allegorical. And here are a few from Luke's gospel:

Luke 24 1-7

…the women … found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3 but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus… suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them…. the men said to them, “Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6 He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: 7 ‘The Son of Man must be delivered over to the hands of sinners, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.’ ”

Verses 22-23

…some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive.

Verses 36-39

Jesus himself stood among them … He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

It sure seems like he's telling facts, things that really happened. Are they true? Do they make sense? No, they are ridiculous. They sound like superstitious religious myth. But, Christians believe them, and Baha'is don't believe it as fact. But, the resurrection of Jesus is the most important thing in Christianity. Like Paul said, that if Jesus hasn't been raised, then Christians should be the most pitied. They believed it, and they died believing it. So do you really think early Christians would they have given their lives if the resurrection was only an allegory?

Isn't it somewhat misleading of God to "inspire" people to write these things as if they were real events? Then, almost 2000 years later, tell them the truth... that Jesus didn't come back to life. It was only a "spiritual" resurrection?

Only a spiritual resurrection? What matters is that through the Teachings of Jesus we too can be resurrected. We can have spiritual life and not be spiritually dead. Through Christ the church was raised to new life.

Many Christians believe the resurrection is proof of Jesus' Divinity because only God has power over death. The Baha'i perspective, though different, also provides proof of Jesus sovereignty over death, in particular the death of the soul. Jesus' spiritual effect on the lives of His followers and the establishment of the Church demonstrates the power of His love and affirms the claims of His sovereignty. HIs Glorious Being and his Divine Perfections prove that He is a manifestation of God.

The physical resurrection is not necessary to prove Jesus' Divinity or Power to impart eternal life. Other world religions believe that God is All-Powerful including the power to provide eternal life.

The true meaning of the resurrection?

Jesus came from heaven:
John 3:13, John 6:38, John 6:41-2

The risen body of Christ is the Church:
Roman 12:5 'one body in Christ'
1 Corinthians 12:12-13 'baptised into one body'
1 Corinthians 12:25 'no schism in the body'
1 Corinthians 12:27 'you are the body of Christ'
Colossians 1:18 'He is the head of the body'
Ephesians 2:5-6 'members of His body, and His flesh'

The spiritual resurrection:
1 Corinthians 15:42-4 'it is raised in a spiritual body'
1 Corinthians 15:50 'flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom'

Were the apostles of Christ misguided in this matter, and misled others?
No
Do the scriptures lie?
No. The apostles were guided by God's unerring spirit.

Lets consider Christ's manner of speech throughout His ministry. He used words and phrases with literal meanings to convey spiritual messages and truths. How do we understand verses such as 'unless one is born again he can not see the kingdom of God' (John 3:3) or 'unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink HIs blood, you have no life in you'? (John 6:53). When the apostles spoke of Christ as being risen they spoke as Christ spoke. The use of symbols is necessary to convey truths that can not be readily understood with literal speech. The symbolic verses are also God's way of testing the hearts of His true followers.

Mathew 13:10-17
"And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them."
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't understand how you take the virgin birth story as a literal fact, but then you make Jesus coming back to life a scientific impossibility? So, from those verses in Acts, show me how it was meant to be allegorical. And here are a few from Luke's gospel:

Luke 24 1-7

…the women … found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3 but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus… suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them…. the men said to them, “Why do you look for the living among the dead? 6 He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: 7 ‘The Son of Man must be delivered over to the hands of sinners, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.’ ”

Verses 22-23

…some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning 23 but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive.

Verses 36-39

Jesus himself stood among them … He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

It sure seems like he's telling facts, things that really happened. Are they true? Do they make sense? No, they are ridiculous. They sound like superstitious religious myth. But, Christians believe them, and Baha'is don't believe it as fact. But, the resurrection of Jesus is the most important thing in Christianity. Like Paul said, that if Jesus hasn't been raised, then Christians should be the most pitied. They believed it, and they died believing it. So do you really think early Christians would they have given their lives if the resurrection was only an allegory?

Isn't it somewhat misleading of God to "inspire" people to write these things as if they were real events? Then, almost 2000 years later, tell them the truth... that Jesus didn't come back to life. It was only a "spiritual" resurrection?

Lets consider the empty tomb. If Jesus did not rise from the dead physically, how can the empty tomb be explained. The gospels clearly indicate that Christ's body disappeared from the tomb despite the large stone and the Roman guard. One allegory indicated in the Baha'i writings is the 'tomb of disbelief'. So this would be consistent with the doubts of the apostles and the disappearance of the Spirit of Christ. His teachings and His cause were lifeless in the tomb of unbelief. This all arose from the death of Christ on the cross.

Speculating on the specific meaning of the stone in front of the tomb consider it may symbolise what Paul called the 'stumbling block' of Jesus' death on the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18-24). The angels could symbolise those who arose to dispel the doubts (or moved the stone of doubt from the tomb), and the Roman guard could symbolise the reason for the doubts. Remember that the Jews expected their Messiah to free them from the oppression of the Romans, but the power of Rome was unshaken, representing a threat to the future of the Church. The fleeing of the guard (or becoming like dead men Matthew 28:4) could mean that although Rome was yet to be conquered, and the physical body of Christ had been crucified, the world could not destroy the spirit of is His spirit or prevent the establishment of his cause. Realising that the Roman soldiers were no longer an obstacle to Christian belief, and the stumbling block of Jesus' death rolled back, the faith of His followers were free from the tomb of doubt and unbelief.

Hope that helps:)
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't understand how you take the virgin birth story as a literal fact, but then you make Jesus coming back to life a scientific impossibility?

A Divine mystery, not a literal fact! There's a big difference between the two.:rolleyes:

It is important when seeking the answers to these type of scriptural dilemmas and paradoxes, to be able to honestly say "I am not sure of the answer to this question for now despite me best efforts". You have many of the Christians who believe the resurrection has to be physical and Baha'is like myself who believe it is spiritual. You don't need to take sides or find the answer right now. If you are sincere and earnestly seeking the answers will come eventually. After all Jesus said "seek and ye shall find". The truth shall set us free. Sometimes it takes years to arrive at certainty.
 
Last edited:

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Only a spiritual resurrection? What matters is that through the Teachings of Jesus we too can be resurrected. We can have spiritual life and not be spiritually dead. Through Christ the church was raised to new life.

Many Christians believe the resurrection is proof of Jesus' Divinity because only God has power over death. The Baha'i perspective, though different, also provides proof of Jesus sovereignty over death, in particular the death of the soul. Jesus' spiritual effect on the lives of His followers and the establishment of the Church demonstrates the power of His love and affirms the claims of His sovereignty. HIs Glorious Being and his Divine Perfections prove that He is a manifestation of God.

The physical resurrection is not necessary to prove Jesus' Divinity or Power to impart eternal life. Other world religions believe that God is All-Powerful including the power to provide eternal life.

The true meaning of the resurrection?

Jesus came from heaven:
John 3:13, John 6:38, John 6:41-2

The risen body of Christ is the Church:
Roman 12:5 'one body in Christ'
1 Corinthians 12:12-13 'baptised into one body'
1 Corinthians 12:25 'no schism in the body'
1 Corinthians 12:27 'you are the body of Christ'
Colossians 1:18 'He is the head of the body'
Ephesians 2:5-6 'members of His body, and His flesh'

The spiritual resurrection:
1 Corinthians 15:42-4 'it is raised in a spiritual body'
1 Corinthians 15:50 'flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom'

Were the apostles of Christ misguided in this matter, and misled others?
No
Do the scriptures lie?
No. The apostles were guided by God's unerring spirit.

Lets consider Christ's manner of speech throughout His ministry. He used words and phrases with literal meanings to convey spiritual messages and truths. How do we understand verses such as 'unless one is born again he can not see the kingdom of God' (John 3:3) or 'unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink HIs blood, you have no life in you'? (John 6:53). When the apostles spoke of Christ as being risen they spoke as Christ spoke. The use of symbols is necessary to convey truths that can not be readily understood with literal speech. The symbolic verses are also God's way of testing the hearts of His true followers.

Mathew 13:10-17
"And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them."
What is weird is that Christians take the NT too literal and Baha'is take it too symbolic. But even Christians take "being born again" and "eating" his flesh as symbolic. Even when Jesus says to pluck out your eye if it offends you or to handle snakes and drink deadly poison, for some reason most Christians don't take that literal.

The things that the "Bible-believing" Christians do take literal is creation, the flood, the virgin birth, and most certainly the resurrection. And that is still my main question for you... out of the Catholics, the Orthodox and Protestants, did any these Christian groups really know and teach the truth? Because along with believing Jesus physically rose from the dead, they also teach hell and Satan are real and that salvation comes only through Jesus... none of which are true if the Baha'i Faith is true.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
What is weird is that Christians take the NT too literal and Baha'is take it too symbolic.

It depends on your definition of weird...

The things that the "Bible-believing" Christians do take literal is creation, the flood, the virgin birth, and most certainly the resurrection.

Not necessarily. There's much diversity of belief amongst the Christians I know. Even on this thread a very learned Christian has posted he does not believe in a physical resurrection, while others have spoken of it being a divine mystery, and others still believing the physical with a spiritual dimension that overshadows the physical. There are of course many who say its physical and that's that. With science many Christians are moving away from literal interpretations of genesis and the virgin birth. There is however this strange country in the Northern hemisphere called the United States of America....

Level of support for evolution - Wikipedia

And that is still my main question for you... out of the Catholics, the Orthodox and Protestants, did any these Christian groups really know and teach the truth?

Consider the parable of the tares:

'But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.'
Matthew 13:24-30

Now reflect on these words in a Baha'i document titled one common faith:

Over time, theology succeeded in constructing in the heart of each one of the great faiths an authority parallel with, and even inimical in spirit to, the revealed teachings on which the tradition was based. Jesus’ familiar parable of the landowner who sowed seed in his field addresses both the issue and its implications for the present time: "But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way." When his servants proposed to uproot them, the landowner replied, "Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."Throughout its pages, the Qur’án reserves its severest condemnation for the spiritual harm caused by this competing hegemony: "Say: The things that my Lord hath indeed forbidden are: shameful deeds, whether open or secret; sins and trespasses against truth or reason; assigning of partners to God, for which he hath given no authority; and saying things about God of which ye have no knowledge."To the modern mind it is the greatest of ironies that generations of theologians, whose impositions on religion embody precisely the betrayal so strongly denounced in these texts, should seek to use the warning itself as a weapon in suppressing protest against their usurpation of Divine authority.


In effect, each new stage in the progressively unfolding revelation of spiritual truth was frozen in time and in an array of literalistic images and interpretations, many of them borrowed from cultures which were themselves morally exhausted. Whatever their value at earlier stages in the evolution of consciousness, conceptions of physical resurrection, a paradise of carnal delights, reincarnation, pantheistic prodigies, and the like, today raise walls of separation and conflict in an age when the earth has literally become one homeland and human beings must learn to see themselves as its citizens. In this context one can appreciate the reasons for the vehemence of Bahá’u’lláh’s warnings about the barriers that dogmatic theology creates in the path of those seeking to understand the will of God: "O leaders of religion! Weigh not the Book of God with such standards and sciences as are current amongst you, for the Book itself is the unerring Balance established amongst men."In His
Tablet to Pope Pius IX, He advises the pontiff that God has in this day "stored away … in the vessels of justice" whatever is enduring in religion and "cast into fire that which befitteth it".


Consider also the Nicene Creed that enshrined dogma and doctrine and was exalted to an authority that parallels the Holy Bible.

Nicene Creed - Wikipedia

Consider the consequences for anyone who dared to teach beliefs contrary to this creed.

There is your answer.

Because along with believing Jesus physically rose from the dead, they also teach hell and Satan are real and that salvation comes only through Jesus... none of which are true if the Baha'i Faith is true.

There is no literal heaven in the sky and hell below the earth as some Christians believe but they are states of being both in this world and the next so they do exist.

Satan is a metaphor for mans lower nature.

The one way Jesus salvation of the Christian fundamentalists has contributed to countless atrocities throughout history.
 

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
Oh yes, PLEASE share all of your contemporary, written documentary evidence that disproves the resurrection. I can't wait to read actual documents to counter-claim the dozens of documents we do have from the period. This will be SO helpful.

Okay, let's make a deal, if you mention to me any thing in terms of a document in the Tanach that approves bodily resurrection and, if I fail to explain to you the real meaning of the quote, I promise to review my views. Nu! That's the only chance you have to silence me. Are you bold enough to take the challenge?
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
So according to your reckoning any day now?



I have gained my knowledge from the One who is the fulfilment of Daniel 9:24-27



Literal interpretation is the road the Jews went down and look what happened. The One who would sit on the throne of David....

Please tell me where in the Bible God says, "Now, now, don't take all these prophecies literally. . . "?

Thank you.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Please tell me where in the Bible God says, "Now, now, don't take all these prophecies literally. . . "?

Thank you.

Moses and the prophets of Israel prophesised their Messiah but expressed it in the language of symbols. When Christ appeared, the Jews rejected Him, although they were expecting His coming.

Why did they deny Him when He announced Himself? Because they had followed literal interpretations of the Hebrew Bible and were blind to the spiritual reality of Christ. They had not perceived the inner significances of the Holy Bible. They were expecting the Christ, but His coming is conditioned upon certain fulfilments and prophetic announcements. Among the signs of His appearance is that He shall come from an unknown place, whereas Jesus was known to have come from Nazareth. We know his home, and we are acquainted with his mother.

Second, one of the signs or Messianic conditions is that His scepter would be an iron rod, and this Christ has not even a wooden staff.

Third, He was to be seated upon the throne of David, whereas this Messianic king is in the utmost state of poverty and has not even a mat.

Fourth, He was to conquer the East and the West. This person has not even conquered a village. How can he be the Messiah?

Fifth, He was to promulgate the laws of the Bible. This one has not only failed to promulgate the laws of the Bible, but he has broken the law of the sabbath.

Sixth, the Messiah was to gather together all the Jews who were scattered in Palestine and restore them to honor and prestige, but this one has degraded the Jews instead of uplifting them.

Seventh, during His sovereignty even the animals were to enjoy blessings and comfort, for according to the prophetic texts, He should establish peace to such a universal extent that the eagle and quail would live together, the lion and deer would feed in the same meadow, the wolf and lamb would lie down in the same pasture. In the human kingdom warfare was to cease entirely; spears would be turned into pruning hooks and swords into plowshares. Now we see in the day of this would-be Messiah such injustice prevails that even he himself is sacrificed. How could he be the promised Christ?

And so the Jews spoke in regards to Jesus and rejected His claims.

Adapted from - ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 198-199)
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
If it wasn't at least a little vague, why didn't all Jews know for a fact that Jesus was their Messiah?
Various reasons... some of the reasons are:

fear, position and praise of men
John 12:42 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue;
43 for they loved human praise more than praise from God.

lust
II Tim 4:
but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

money:
Acts 19:23 About that time, serious trouble developed in Ephesus concerning the Way.
24 It began with Demetrius, a silversmith who had a large business manufacturing silver shrines of the Greek goddess Artemis. He kept many craftsmen busy.
25 He called them together, along with others employed in similar trades, and addressed them as follows: “Gentlemen, you know that our wealth comes from this business.
26 But as you have seen and heard, this man Paul has persuaded many people that handmade gods aren’t really gods at all. And he’s done this not only here in Ephesus but throughout the entire province!

There are many other reasons... however, if one approaches it with a sincere heart:

Acts 17:
10 Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.
12 Therefore many of them believed, and also not a few of the Greeks, prominent women as well as men.


And now, if it's not vague, why don't people realize that Baha'u'llah is the "return" of Jesus and become Baha'is?
Because it isn't. Many people will come and say "Here he is" but the time is not yet.
 

Ben Avraham

Well-Known Member
Jesus willingly came down and offered his flesh in our behalf. The Bible teaches us that God resurrected him. He was resurrected in the spirit, back to his life of what he was prior, and because of his sacrifice he was granted the #2 position in heaven, sitting at Jehovah's right hand.

No, he did not for three reasons: First, there was no willingness in Jesus to walk the Via Dolorosa. Hence, he prayed three times in the Gethsemane not to. He rather said, "Let Thy will be done; NOT MINE." What was Jesus' will then? Obviously not to die on the cross for no one. Second reason, Jesus would not contradict the Prophets of the Most High who say that no one can die for the sins of another. (Ezekiel 18:4,20; Jeremiah 31:30) and for the third reason, Jesus was a Jew and, according to his gospel aka the Tanach, once dead, no one will ever return from the grave. (II Samuel 12:23; Psalms 49:12,20; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9; etc.
 

Cush

New Member
Did Jesus physically rise from the dead or this an allegorical story?

Perhaps its both and maybe neither?

What is the best way of understanding this core Christian belief?

Knowing my own sinful disposition and God's attributes, I understand the necessity for the atonement and propitiation. If Christ did not rise, then I have no hope. In other words, if Christ's body was found, this would be the only thing that would shatter my faith. I know I am not the only one that believes such as it is expressed in 1 Corinthians 15:17-19. If Jesus did not rise, I have no hope.

God bless,
Cush
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Knowing my own sinful disposition and God's attributes, I understand the necessity for the atonement and propitiation. If Christ did not rise, then I have no hope. In other words, if Christ's body was found, this would be the only thing that would shatter my faith. I know I am not the only one that believes such as it is expressed in 1 Corinthians 15:17-19. If Jesus did not rise, I have no hope.

God bless,
Cush

Dear Cush,

Thank you for sharing your faith in Christ.

Paul says the resurrected Christ appeared to him last (1 Corinthians 15:7-9). However the accounts of the appearance of Christ to Paul recorded in Acts (Chapters 9, 22, and 26) strongly suggest descriptions of a vision. In one instance while in a trance praying, Paul describes hearing Christ (Acts 22:17-21). The most significant appearance to Paul is on the road to Damascus ((Acts 9:4, Acts 22:7, Acts 26:12). Christ asks Paul 'why are you persecuting me?'. However we know that Christ has been crucified, rather His followers are persecuted. Why does the risen Christ say to Paul 'why are you persecuting Me?' if the risen Christ is not the living Church? Of course it is Paul who continually refers to the living body of Christ with the Church.

So the true meaning of the resurrection IMHO

The true meaning of the resurrection?

Jesus came from heaven:
John 3:13, John 6:38, John 6:41-2

The risen body of Christ is the Church:
Roman 12:5 'one body in Christ'
1 Corinthians 12:12-13 'baptised into one body'
1 Corinthians 12:25 'no schism in the body'
1 Corinthians 12:27 'you are the body of Christ'
Colossians 1:18 'He is the head of the body'
Ephesians 2:5-6 'members of His body, and His flesh'

The spiritual resurrection:
1 Corinthians 15:42-4 'it is raised in a spiritual body'
1 Corinthians 15:50 'flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom'

I do not require a belief in a physically resurrected Jesus to believe in Him. Besides such a belief would be contrary to science and reason.

God Bless and Best Wishes
 

Cush

New Member
Dear Cush,

Thank you for sharing your faith in Christ.

Paul says the resurrected Christ appeared to him last (1 Corinthians 15:7-9). However the accounts of the appearance of Christ to Paul recorded in Acts (Chapters 9, 22, and 26) strongly suggest descriptions of a vision. In one instance while in a trance praying, Paul describes hearing Christ (Acts 22:17-21). The most significant appearance to Paul is on the road to Damascus ((Acts 9:4, Acts 22:7, Acts 26:12). Christ asks Paul 'why are you persecuting me?'. However we know that Christ has been crucified, rather His followers are persecuted. Why does the risen Christ say to Paul 'why are you persecuting Me?' if the risen Christ is not the living Church? Of course it is Paul who continually refers to the living body of Christ with the Church.

So the true meaning of the resurrection IMHO

The true meaning of the resurrection?

Jesus came from heaven:
John 3:13, John 6:38, John 6:41-2

The risen body of Christ is the Church:
Roman 12:5 'one body in Christ'
1 Corinthians 12:12-13 'baptised into one body'
1 Corinthians 12:25 'no schism in the body'
1 Corinthians 12:27 'you are the body of Christ'
Colossians 1:18 'He is the head of the body'
Ephesians 2:5-6 'members of His body, and His flesh'

The spiritual resurrection:
1 Corinthians 15:42-4 'it is raised in a spiritual body'
1 Corinthians 15:50 'flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom'

I do not require a belief in a physically resurrected Jesus to believe in Him. Besides such a belief would be contrary to science and reason.

God Bless and Best Wishes

Thank you for sharing the authority by which you dictate your faith, "science and reason".

Cush.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Thank you for sharing the authority by which you dictate your faith, "science and reason".

Cush.


I appreciate you believe in a physical resurrection. Its clearly an essential part of your faith.

Our God is All-powerful and Omnipotent. However just because He can do something does not mean He has.

For over 1,000 years the Church believed the earth to be the centre of the universe. Science disproved that and it took a long time for the church to recognise its error.

Best wishes
 
Top