The 144,000

psychoslice said:

Yes and of course that's not your people ?.

Click to expand...

Muffled said:

I believe that depends on who you think my people are. My pastor thinks he knows but he does not and does not know that he can be in error. However I am one who knows when I err and when I do not because the Truth resides within me.

Click to expand...

psychoslice said:

Of course it does, you have the truth, and everyone else is mislead, and of course its your job to go out and witness to all these people who have it wrong, to save their souls.............yea, tell me another one.

Click to expand...

Muffled said:

I believe I am telling the truth. If you believe otherwise perhaps it is because you don't recognize the truth when you see it.

Click to expand...

psychoslice said:

Now come on that's being arrogant.

Click to expand...

Muffled said:

I don't perceive it that way. An example might serve. At a Friends meeting I spoke something authoritative that another person speaking authoritatively had what would appear to be an opposite view. Because I am not arrogant I asked God how could that happen. His answer was that we were both right. So the elephant has a tail but lo and behold it has a trunk also and we both know what the elephant is like.

Click to expand...

Cateau said:

Is it really the limit of entry to the New Jerusalem? Or could it be that it is a number to the saved fallen malahkiem? I wonder because the Bible states angles will be judged, what's the point if setting up a jury if the plaintiff can't be anything other than guilty? (2 corinthians 6:8) Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, matters of this life?

Click to expand...

Brickjectivity said:

I want to point out to readers that Revelation has the number 144,000 in it, not the letter to Corinth. Revelation (originally titled Apocalypse) uses lots of symbolism of a peculiar variety including lots of numbers, especially 7. The letter to Corinth has a different author with different tastes and makes no mention of 144,000 and does not emphasize visions or numerology. I think you should consider the texts to be completely unrelated when it comes to numerology.

Be like Nebuchadnezzar (which isn't a real king's historical name but merely similar to a real King's' name) in the apocryphal book Daniel. If someone can't tell you your dream they also cannot interpret what it is about. If someone cannot tell you the moral lesson behind 12 and 144000 then don't let them tell you superstitious claptrap about it. Everything in the Bible has a moral lesson, so start with the moral lesson to understand the number. In Daniel Nebuchadnezzar is unable to interpret his own dream. Daniel interprets it for him after telling him what it is, but I tell you that if Nebuchadnezzar had received the same moral training as Daniel then he would have understood that dream which was about morals. The numbers in the Bible are the same way. Once you brush away superstition and look at what the Bible really cares about (morals), then you find a real meaning for a number.

Click to expand...

Cateau said:

How can you "brush away superstitions" ? Needn't you use the belief in them to understand the Bible? How can you adhere to it if it being filled with sorcery and miracles you sweep everything considered as superstition under the rug as just made up "stories" with-in the story. Sure you gotta separate the parables but if you take an actuality and make it out to be a parable it can be spiritually fatal.

Click to expand...

Cateau said:

Is it really the limit of entry to the New Jerusalem? Or could it be that it is a number to the saved fallen malahkiem? I wonder because the Bible states angles will be judged, what's the point if setting up a jury if the plaintiff can't be anything other than guilty? (2 corinthians 6:8) Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, matters of this life?

Some people point to Zechariah 5:9 as an example of female angels. That verse says, “Then I looked up—and there before me were two women, with the wind in their wings! They had wings like those of a stork, and they lifted up the basket between heaven and earth.” The problem is that the “women” in this prophetic vision are not called angels. They are called nashiym (“women”), as is the woman in the basket representing wickedness in verses 7 and 8. By contrast, the angel that Zechariah was speaking to is called a malak, a completely different word meaning “angel” or “messenger.” The fact that the women have wings in Zechariah’s vision might suggest angels to our minds, but we must be careful about going beyond what the text actually says. A vision does not necessarily depict actual beings or objects—consider the huge flying scroll Zechariah sees earlier in the same chapter (Zechariah 5:1–2).

If this verse were taken literally and the women were nephilem half breed of human and angles then could it mean that number is for how many of them were saved because they did not defile themselves by intermingling with human women as says the verse, "it is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb." If not....that is a very little number for a grand multitude of people as countless as the grains of sand.

Click to expand...

Brickjectivity said:

Every miracle or unusual thing that happens in Bible stories is to teach morality. Absolutely 100%. Nothing matters in the Bible but that, so the only realistic approach to Bible study is one in which you are seeking inspiration of your moral faculties. There are some weird events that happen in the Bible, so weird that those who read it like a book get confused. Take for instance when king Saul raises up the dead priest Samuel in a séance. In one of the stories one prophet deceives another. In another story a donkey speaks to a man. The only common thread is that the stories are teaching morality. If you read the Bible to learn the power of speaking to the dead or to become a supernatural prophet or to teach animals to speak then you are not really reading the Bible at all. It isn't about those things.

Click to expand...

Etritonakin said:

What it says is that we will judge the affairs of the angels. We were made a little lower than the angels, but will one day essentially outrank them -though God's government is not as human government.

144,000 is simply the number of servants prepared to minister to people during the "great tribulation" -though their work will not be simple or easy. It will be the most difficult time in human history. Just after they are mentioned, a great multitude is mentioned which will also experience that tribulation, and will be saved out of it to the first resurrection -whether they die in it or life through it until the return of Christ.

Those who have done the daily -prophesied, ministered and preached the gospel of the kingdom before the tribulation will be spared experiencing it -though they will be persecuted fiercely before they go to a place of safety.
They are the woman who goes to the place prepared -and the 144,000 and others are the "remnant of her seed"

Rev 12:14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Click to expand...

Cateau said:

So in other words you don't believe in a, any, god or satan or anything......no affairs matter to you do they. So life got so boring has it? That you stopped asking questions and seeking for answers. At least not till you experience an out of ordinary phenomena like oh so many, only then will you start to process the Bible accordingly right, I think you should try Trey Smith's documentary ENTITIES on for size. You may have to drop a dime but a preview wont cut it.

Click to expand...

Cateau said:

Ohkay, it always quite disturbed me deeply that wings might not be symbolic. I mean some even speculate that satan was created as a hooved specimen and who are we to judge god if it were so....but I always held such a thought as radical, perhaps he became as so after his fall but its hard to grasp at the idea that Lucifer was the most beautiful if he were a minotaur lol. But its the inside that counts right.

Click to expand...

psychoslice said:

So no one is wrong, good, no need for religion, yea yea, sounds good to me.

Click to expand...

Cateau said:

As of yet I haven't taken a genealogy test, till then I guess I can't call myself anything. But anything is possible, I' ll let you know when I get the results. I just share more thoughts with Italian writers of past centuries than other cultures of today regarding scripture, of course not in everything but its like wow finally someone who gets me lol.

Click to expand...

Muffled said:

I believe Cateau would be a French name. Is there a reason you would choose that over an Italian name?

Click to expand...

Brickjectivity said:

In other words you may be reading the Bible to obtain magical powers and missing the point. I've had supernatural experiences.

Click to expand...

Cateau said:

First off.....why do you even like that show?

Click to expand...

Cateau said:

Uhm no the only magical powers is the law of attraction used as prayer to yield results using ones will through the power of the cosmic justice.

Click to expand...

Cateau said:

With experiences like that, shouldn't you better grasp the reality of such things in the Bible?

Click to expand...

Cateau said:

Must you verbally contort the experiences in the bible as mythical moral lessons while your own are real? Let's hear it what happened to you?

Click to expand...

Brickjectivity said:

What show? Are you talking about a different thread?

Not sure what you are saying that for. I thought you were suggesting otherwise.

The Bible is all about morality and the law. If you read something and do not see a relation to one or both of those things, then you are not really reading it. Then its just a story about a giant, about a whale or about a tinkling cymbal.

The Bible is a library not a book, and it does not promise its books are literal accounts just like libraries today do not. People promise you that about the Bible and they will purposely distort it, calling it a book instead of a library. It does the opposite to making such promises, constantly telling you otherwise; but people tell it its promising miracles. People who give you poisoned kool aid and place snakes into your hand will tell you it is about miracles and whatever it is that you desire most -- unless all you want is to love other people. Then they will put obstacles in your path and bleed you. You get in their way, so they oppose you. They'll treat Revelation like its the most important book in the world while they stab your back and screw your wife. You'll be left looking blank and wondering when the miracle will happen.

Click to expand...