* sigh* Just Another Day In Heaven

omega2xx · Jan 7, 2017

URAVIP2ME said:
Yes, agree that second death could be considered as ' eternal death ' in the sense that the wicked are ' destroyed forever ' according to Psalms 92:7. Eternal death then equals destroyed forever. - Jeremiah 51:57

The words from Jesus' mouth will execute the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16 ( execute as in capital punishment as in second death). No resurrection from second death. No resurrection from being executed by Jesus.
No future life for those experiencing second death - Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6; 2 Peter 3:9 B
The dead know nothing - Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4 - they feel No bliss or feel No pain.

To me, Jesus has the keys to unlock the Bible's temporary hell/grave according to Revelation 1:18
Since emptied-out hell (grave) and death are both cast into the lake of fire according to Revelation 20:13-14, then there is No one left in vacated biblical hell/grave to be cast into a literal fire.

You have give some very good verses to support your understanding. I am committed to the doctrine that no verses in the Bible contradict each other. When they seem to, it is because of our lack of properly understanding them.

IMO the Bible teaches eternal punishment in a firey hell for non-believers. There is no need to have an eternal fire(Mt 18:8) if there is nothing left to burn. After the final judgment, those whose name is not written in the Book of Life are thrown int the lake of fire(Rev 20:15).

The definition of the lake of fire is defined at Revelation 20:14 as: second death.
Who ends up in what is defined as second death according to Revelation 21:8

The first death is when we die in this life. It is not permanent. l The second death is when we die in the next life. It is permanent.

IMO, when we have complete knowledge, we will see that God was just and compassionate land loving in how he treated everyone.

If I am wrong about unbelievers being punished forever in a firey hell, is an allegory, I will be happy. If I am right, I will have full understanding and will be happy---there will be no tears in heaven,

URAVIP2ME · Jan 7, 2017

omega2xx said:
You have give some very good verses to support your understanding. I am committed to the doctrine that no verses in the Bible contradict each other. When they seem to, it is because of our lack of properly understanding them.
IMO the Bible teaches eternal punishment in a firey hell for non-believers. There is no need to have an eternal fire(Mt 18:8) if there is nothing left to burn. After the final judgment, those whose name is not written in the Book of Life are thrown int the lake of fire(Rev 20:15).
The first death is when we die in this life. It is not permanent. l The second death is when we die in the next life. It is permanent.
IMO, when we have complete knowledge, we will see that God was just and compassionate land loving in how he treated everyone.
If I am wrong about unbelievers being punished forever in a firey hell, is an allegory, I will be happy. If I am right, I will have full understanding and will be happy---there will be no tears in heaven,

To me, there already are No tears in heaven. The tear problem exists right here on Earth.

Yes, agree ' second death ' would be if we die in the next life ( during Jesus' 1,000-year reign over Earth )
Those who reign with Jesus won't be affected by ' second death ' according to Revelation 20:6
However, those of Matthew 12:32 and Hebrews 6:4-6 are already considered as being in ' second death ' because there is No future resurrection for them.
Also, there will be No future resurrection for those who are judged as haughty ' goats ' of Matthew 25:31-33.
They are also considered as being in ' everlasting fire ' as Satan will be - Matthew 25:41
They sleep a perpetual death ( second death ) - Jeremiah 51:39; Jeremiah 51:57 ( twice dead - Jude 1:12 B )
Jesus destroys Satan according to Hebrews 2:14 B
Jesus does Not send Satan to hell, but Satan is sent to ' second death ' - Revelation 21:8
Since Jesus destroys sinner Satan, and Satan ends up in ' second death ' then ' second death ' is a fitting term for destruction.
As the wicked ( and Satan is wicked ) are destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7 ( annihilated )

I think I understand more of where you are coming from by your mention of Matthew 18:8 's everlasting fire.
Please also notice Matthew 18:9 with its mention of hell fire.
KJV and other translations translated the word Gehenna into English as: hell fire.
So, what is Gehenna. In Jesus' day Gehenna was a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed and Not kept burning forever. So, Gehenna was a fitting word for: destruction. As in forever destruction for the wicked as mentioned at Psalms 92:7.

As far as the Bible's hell, it is a temporary place for the dead because righteous Jesus the day he died went to hell.
Jesus did Not go to fire, but to the temporary grave for the sleeping dead - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
If biblical hell was a permanent place then Jesus would still be in hell - Psalms 16:10
Instead, the resurrected Jesus has the keys to unlock the Bible's temporary hell/grave - Revelation 1:18
Jesus' friend at John 11:11-14 was Not in flames, but in sleep according to what Jesus' believed.
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach sleep ( Not pain ) in death:
Please check -> Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13
Besides Ecclesiastes 9:5 mentioning that the dead know nothing ( No feeling for the dead )

We are given only two (2) choices at 2 Peter 3:9 to either ' repent ' or we will ' perish ' ( be destroyed )
Just as dead Adam had No post-mortem penalty but simply ' returned ' to the the dust - Genesis 3:19
A person can Not ' return ' to a place he never was before. Adam simply went back to where he started.
Adam went from non-life, to life, and returned back to non-life.

Those who are alive on Earth after the end of the thousand years will gain ' everlasting life on Earth ' as originally offered to Adam before his downfall. Enemy death, and tears, will be No more - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8

omega2xx · Jan 7, 2017

URAVIP2ME said:
To me, there already are No tears in heaven. The tear problem exists right here on Earth.

REv w21:4 says Jesus will wipe away evey tear. Those ters are probably teas of joy for seein what heaven is like and to meet Jesus and God personally.

Yes, agree ' second death ' would be if we die in the next life ( during Jesus' 1,000-year reign over Earth )
Those who reign with Jesus won't be affected by ' second death ' according to Revelation 20:6
However, those of Matthew 12:32 and Hebrews 6:4-6 are already considered as being in ' second death ' because there is No future resurrection for them.
Also, there will be No future resurrection for those who are judged as haughty ' goats ' of Matthew 25:31-33.
They are also considered as being in ' everlasting fire ' as Satan will be - Matthew 25:41
They sleep a perpetual death ( second death ) - Jeremiah 51:39; Jeremiah 51:57 ( twice dead - Jude 1:12 B )
Jesus destroys Satan according to Hebrews 2:14 B
Jesus does Not send Satan to hell, but Satan is sent to ' second death ' - Revelation 21:8
Since Jesus destroys sinner Satan, and Satan ends up in ' second death ' then ' second death ' is a fitting term for destruction.
As the wicked ( and Satan is wicked ) are destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7 ( annihilated )

I think I understand more of where you are coming from by your mention of Matthew 18:8 's everlasting fire.
Please also notice Matthew 18:9 with its mention of hell fire.
KJV and other translations translated the word Gehenna into English as: hell fire.
So, what is Gehenna. In Jesus' day Gehenna was a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed and Not kept burning forever. So, Gehenna was a fitting word for: destruction. As in forever destruction for the wicked as mentioned at Psalms 92:7.

I believe Gehenna did burn continually during Jesus time on earth.

Jesus did Not go to fire, but to the temporary grave for the sleeping dead - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
If biblical hell was a permanent place then Jesus would still be in hell - Psalms 16:10
Instead, the resurrected Jesus has the keys to unlock the Bible's temporary hell/grave - Revelation 1:18
Jesus' friend at John 11:11-14 was Not in flames, but in sleep according to what Jesus' believed.
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach sleep ( Not pain ) in death:
Please check -> Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13
Besides Ecclesiastes 9:5 mentioning that the dead know nothing ( No feeling for the dead )[/QUOTE]

It is more likely He went to Sheol, which is not hell. The story of Lazarus and the rich man describe Sheol.

]We are given only two (2) choices at 2 Peter 3:9 to either ' repent ' or we will ' perish ' ( be destroyed )
Just as dead Adam had No post-mortem penalty but simply ' returned ' to the the dust - Genesis 3:19
A person can Not ' return ' to a place he never was before. Adam simply went back to where he started.
Adam went from non-life, to life, and returned back to non-life.

Because both Adam and Eve confessed their sin, God provided a blood sacrifice and made garments to cover the shame of their sins. The garment He made for them reached all the way to the ground, and If i remember right, it describes the cloak worn by God's priest. According to Peter, we are all God's priests. IMO, both are in heaven.

Those who are alive on Earth after the end of the thousand years will gain ' everlasting life on Earth ' as originally offered to Adam before his downfall. Enemy death, and tears, will be No more - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8

[/QUOTE] Right but we will get to visit heaven at least once a year(Zech 14:16).

URAVIP2ME · Jan 8, 2017

omega2xx said:
REv w21:4 says Jesus will wipe away every tear. Those tears are probably tears of joy for seeing what heaven is like and to meet Jesus and God personally.
I believe Gehenna did burn continually during Jesus time on earth.
Jesus did Not go to fire, but to the temporary grave for the sleeping dead - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
If biblical hell was a permanent place then Jesus would still be in hell - Psalms 16:10
Instead, the resurrected Jesus has the keys to unlock the Bible's temporary hell/grave - Revelation 1:18
Jesus' friend at John 11:11-14 was Not in flames, but in sleep according to what Jesus' believed.
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach sleep ( Not pain ) in death:
Please check -> Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13
Besides Ecclesiastes 9:5 mentioning that the dead know nothing ( No feeling for the dead )

It is more likely He went to Sheol, which is not hell. The story of Lazarus and the rich man describe Sheol.
Because both Adam and Eve confessed their sin, God provided a blood sacrifice and made garments to cover the shame of their sins. The garment He made for them reached all the way to the ground, and If i remember right, it describes the cloak worn by God's priest. According to Peter, we are all God's priests. IMO, both are in heaven.
[/QUOTE] Right but we will get to visit heaven at least once a year(Zech 14:16).[/QUOTE]

Very interesting thoughts ^ above ^ and to me the Bible does speak about those resurrected to heaven.
Please note Revelation 7:17 that all tears will be wiped away from eyes.
To me, there would be No point, or No need, to wipe away 'tears of joy'.
As far as earth is concerned: when 'tears of sorrow' are washed away then they will be replaced by 'tears of joy'.

Yes, I agree that Gehenna did burn continually, but what I wanted to get across is that what was thrown into Gehenna's garbage pit did Not burn forever, but rather Gehenna's fire destroyed forever what was thrown into Gehenna, just as an incinerator destroys and does Not keep on burning what is destroyed.
If Gehenna's fire did Not keep having something new to add to it then the Gehenna fire would have died out.

Sheol is biblical hell. KJV translated Gehenna and sheol into English as the words hell or hellfire. - Psalms 16:10

Neither Adam nor Eve confessed sin nor felt remorse or sorrow because at Genesis 3:13 Eve blamed Satan.
And at Genesis 3:12 Adam pointed and blamed God for giving him Eve.
Please notice where the 'founding of the world' of mankind begins according to Jesus at Matthew 23:35.
Jesus counts all the righteous blood back as far as Abel, and Not Adam.
If Adam would have confessed sin then Adam would have been listed or named at Matthew 23:35

The story ( illustration ) of the 'rich man and Lazarus' is a parable or illustration and Not a real happening.
Just as the story ( illustration ) about the neighborly good Samaritan was Not a real happening, etc.

Jesus' friend of John 11:11-14 was a literal friend and Not a parable. They were real people at a burial site.
Jesus did Not say his friend was in a better place and he would bring him back from a better place.
ALL of Jesus' resurrections were physical resurrections back to happy-and-healthy life on Earth.
His resurrections were a preview, or coming attraction, of what Jesus will be doing for earthly resurrections which will take place on Earth during Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins.
That is why Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the ' future tense ' that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....

What verse in Peter do you have in mind, and who was Peter addressing.
Sure 'ALL who are resurrected to heaven' serve mankind as priests (and as kings) - Revelation 5:9-10
Besides being priests and kings they are the saints or holy ones of Daniel 7:18; Daniel 7:21-23; Daniel 7:27
They serve the humble meek people who will inherit the Earth as Jesus promised at Matthew 5:5
Just as Adam was offered everlasting life on Earth as long as he did Not break God's Law, the physically resurrected will have the same opportunity to live forever on Earth, everlasting life on a beautiful paradisical Earth, as long as they do Not break God's Law.

omega2xx · Jan 8, 2017

URAVIP2ME said:
It is more likely He went to Sheol, which is not hell. The story of Lazarus and the rich man describe Sheol.
Because both Adam and Eve confessed their sin, God provided a blood sacrifice and made garments to cover the shame of their sins. The garment He made for them reached all the way to the ground, and If i remember right, it describes the cloak worn by God's priest. According to Peter, we are all God's priests. IMO, both are in heaven.

Right but we will get to visit heaven at least once a year(Zech 14:16).[/QUOTE]

Very interesting thoughts ^ above ^ and to me the Bible does speak about those resurrected to heaven.
Please note Revelation 7:17 that all tears will be wiped away from eyes.
To me, there would be No point, or No need, to wipe away 'tears of joy'.
As far as earth is concerned: when 'tears of sorrow' are washed away then they will be replaced by 'tears of joy'.

It doesn't matter if there is s point. If the Bible says tears will be wiped away, tears will be wiped away. no matter what kind they are.

]Yes, I agree that Gehenna did burn continually, but what I wanted to get across is that what was thrown into Gehenna's garbage pit did Not burn forever, but rather Gehenna's fire destroyed forever what was thrown into Gehenna, just as an incinerator destroys and does Not keep on burning what is destroyed.
If Gehenna's fire did Not keep having something new to add to it then the Gehenna fire would have died out.

Good point. IMO Gehenna is a metaphor that does burn forever. During the lifetime of those I doubt if ever burned out.

Sheol is biblical hell. KJV translated Gehenna and sheol into English as the words hell or hellfire. - Psalms 16:10<<

Sdheol is not hell. Hell will not have 2 sides. The KJ is not the best translation to use for accuracy.

Neither Adam nor Eve confessed sin nor felt remorse or sorrow because at Genesis 3:13 Eve blamed Satan.
And at Genesis 3:12 Adam pointed and blamed God for giving him Eve.

Teaching that passage as the "blame game" is amusing but inaccurate. Confession is telling exactly what happened and that is what they did. The real clincher is 1 Tim 2:14 which says Adam was not deceived. That means he sinned deliberately. Why would he blame Eve for causing him to sin.. Not only that, if it was no confession, God would not have offers a blood sacrifice to make garments to cover the shame of their sins. If I remeber correctly the word for that garment is the same one used to describe the robe of the priests.

Please notice where the 'founding of the world' of mankind begins according to Jesus at Matthew 23:35.
Jesus counts all the righteous blood back as far as Abel, and Not Adam.
If Adam would have confessed sin then Adam would have been listed or named at Matthew 23:35

No blood is spilled with Adam. The first blood spilled was from the blood sacrifice God made to clothe Adam and Eve.

The story ( illustration ) of the 'rich man and Lazarus' is a parable or illustration and Not a real happening.
Just as the story ( illustration ) about the neighborly good Samaritan was Not a real happening, etc.

You are half right

. The Good Samaritan is told as a parable, the story of Lazarus and the rich man is not. So there is no reason to say it is a parable unless whet it says is impossible, and it is not.

Jesus' friend of John 11:11-14 was a literal friend and Not a parable. They were real people at a burial site.
Jesus did Not say his friend was in a better place and he would bring him back from a better place.
ALL of Jesus' resurrections were physical resurrections back to happy-and-healthy life on Earth.
His resurrections were a preview, or coming attraction, of what Jesus will be doing for earthly resurrections which will take place on Earth during Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins.
That is why Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the ' future tense ' that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....

Jesus was not present when Lazarus of the rich man died. So you can' use it as a comparison.

What verse in Peter do you have in mind, and who was Peter addressing.

I Pet 3:19

Sure 'ALL who are resurrected to heaven' serve mankind as priests (and as kings) - Revelation 5:9-10
Besides being priests and kings they are the saints or holy ones of Daniel 7:18; Daniel 7:21-23; Daniel 7:27
They serve the humble meek people who will inherit the Earth as Jesus promised at Matthew 5:5
Just as Adam was offered everlasting life on Earth as long as he did Not break God's Law, the physically resurrected will have the same opportunity to live forever on Earth, everlasting life on a beautiful paradisical Earth, as long as they do Not break God's Law.

If not breaking the laws is a requirement for salvation, we all need to go buy and asbestos overcoat. 'Can you keep God's laws perfectly?

Muffled · Jan 12, 2017

Skwim said:
C'mon, think about it. No time: Everything happening at once. Really?

.

I believe that is not required for time to not exist. Events may be sequential but totally unrelated. One may approximate time by sequencing events but once that is finished one is back to unrelated events again. The problem is that the spirit tends to jump around and does not feel a need to approximate temporal life. I believe it could be done but I don't think any spirit does it.

Muffled · Jan 12, 2017

adrianhindes said:
You need to investigate Baha'u'llah's teaching and demonstrate you have understood them before you can meaningfully answer that question.

I believe I have read enough to recognize that it is not God speaking. As an illuminati he may know some things but quite evidently not everything.

Skwim · Jan 12, 2017

Muffled said:
I believe that is not required for time to not exist.

But you already said time doesn't exist . . . in heaven.

"I believe there is no time in Heaven nor the perception of it."

Events may be sequential but totally unrelated.

There can't be sequence without a "now" and a "then"; the passage of time.

One may approximate time by sequencing events but once that is finished one is back to unrelated events again.

I don't see your point. Approximating time implies the existence of time, which you've said doesn't exist.

The problem is that the spirit tends to jump around and does not feel a need to approximate temporal life. I believe it could be done but I don't think any spirit does it.

It's nice that you know what spirits do and feel, but it's still not evidence that time doesn't exist in heaven.

.

Dawnofhope · Jan 12, 2017

Muffled said:
I believe I have read enough to recognize that it is not God speaking. As an illuminati he may know some things but quite evidently not everything.

Thank you. Would you given me an example of a verse you believe is from God and explain why you think God speaks through that verse?

URAVIP2ME · Jan 12, 2017

omega2xx said:
Right but we will get to visit heaven at least once a year(Zech 14:16).

It doesn't matter if there is s point. If the Bible says tears will be wiped away, tears will be wiped away. no matter what kind they are.
Good point. IMO Gehenna is a metaphor that does burn forever. During the lifetime of those I doubt if ever burned out.
Sheol is biblical hell. KJV translated Gehenna and sheol into English as the words hell or hellfire. - Psalms 16:10<<
Sheol is not hell. Hell will not have 2 sides. The KJ is not the best translation to use for accuracy.
Teaching that passage as the "blame game" is amusing but inaccurate. Confession is telling exactly what happened and that is what they did. The real clincher is 1 Tim 2:14 which says Adam was not deceived. That means he sinned deliberately. Why would he blame Eve for causing him to sin.. Not only that, if it was no confession, God would not have offers a blood sacrifice to make garments to cover the shame of their sins. If I remeber correctly the word for that garment is the same one used to describe the robe of the priests.
No blood is spilled with Adam. The first blood spilled was from the blood sacrifice God made to clothe Adam and Eve.
You are half right

. The Good Samaritan is told as a parable, the story of Lazarus and the rich man is not. So there is no reason to say it is a parable unless whet it says is impossible, and it is not.
Jesus was not present when Lazarus of the rich man died. So you can' use it as a comparison.
I Pet 3:19
If not breaking the laws is a requirement for salvation, we all need to go buy and asbestos overcoat. 'Can you keep God's laws perfectly?[/QUOTE]

We are Not to deliberately, intentionally, premeditated, willfully break God's law. - Hebrews 10:26
No one can stop sinning, otherwise we would Not die.
Since Jesus likened death to sleep - John 11:11-14 - then , to me, No one needs an asbestos coat.

Yes, to me, Gehenna did continually burn, but what was thrown into Gehenna did Not burn forever.
What is thrown into a fireplace becomes ashes and does Not burn forever.
So, to me, Gehenna is a fitting symbol for destruction. As the wicked will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7

Biblical hell is where the dead Jesus went when he died - Acts of the Apostles 2:27; Psalms 16:10
If biblical hell was a permanent place then, to me, Jesus would still be in the Bible's hell.
Rather, Jesus now has the keys to unlock the Bible's hell ( grave ) - Revelation 1:18

Isn't 1 Peter 3:19 in connection to spirits (angels) and Not people, because those ' spirits' (demons) in prison are the fallen angels of Noah's day. By Jesus appearing to them he showed them he was successful.
- 2 Peter 4-5 shows God did Not spare those wicked spirit angels but they are in chains of darkness - Jude 1:6

Adam did Not blame Eve. Please notice Genesis 3:12 because Adam blamed 'God' for giving him Eve.
God made use of animal skins ( deer hide for an example ) for Adam and Eve - see Genesis 3:21

Jesus is addressing the Pharisees at Luke 16:14, they are the composite rich man of Luke 16:19.
Who is the ' rich man ' of Luke 16:1 ? Is he real or a teaching illustration ?
What about the ' rich man ' of Luke 12:16 is he real or a parable teaching ?
At Matthew 13:34 it says without a parable Jesus would Not address the crowds.
So, those money-loving ' rich man ' Pharisees were being taught they were Not like the humble or poor Lazarus class of people.

Muffled · Jan 14, 2017

adrianhindes said:
Thank you. Would you given me an example of a verse you believe is from God and explain why you think God speaks through that verse?

Sura 2:97. Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah.s will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,-

98. Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and apostles, to Gabriel and Michael,- Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith.

Ge 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Joh 5:19 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father doing: for what things soever he doeth, these the Son also doeth in like manner.

Ac 25:8 while Paul said in his defense, Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar, have I sinned at all.

Whenever you see this word in the Qu'ran it is an indication that the angel is speaking and that angel is speaking on God's behalf.

I believe for Moses to know what God said God had to tell him.

I believe Jesus is God in the flesh and this verse supports that, so whenever Jesus speaks God is speaking.

I believe Paul was speaking as the Paraclete, and the voice of God.

Muffled · Jan 14, 2017

Skwim said:
But you already said time doesn't exist . . . in heaven.

"I believe there is no time in Heaven nor the perception of it."

There can't be sequence without a "now" and a "then"; the passage of time.

I don't see your point. Approximating time implies the existence of time, which you've said doesn't exist.

It's nice that you know what spirits do and feel, but it's still not evidence that time doesn't exist in heaven.

.

I believe that is true but the passage of time is fantasy not reality. So it is true spirits are in Heaven but the time is in the spirit not in Heaven itself. For instance I can be in the library but I am not part of the library.

I know what my spirit is like and perhaps I should not generalize but the spiritual state is similar to the dream state and I believe it is common that dreams jump around.

I believe the evidence is the lack of material substance in Heaven. It is the movement of masses that creates time. The earth revolves around the sun creating times fo seasons; the earth rotates on its axis creating times of day. We go through our activities while aging creating the times of our lives.

Skwim · Jan 14, 2017

Muffled said:
I believe that is true but the passage of time is fantasy not reality.

You do know, don't you, how illogical this is?

So it is true spirits are in Heaven but the time is in the spirit not in Heaven itself. For instance I can be in the library but I am not part of the library.

So what? What does your physical identity have to do with time? And, just how do you come to the conclusion that time is in this spirit thing? What ever that is.

I know what my spirit is like and perhaps I should not generalize but the spiritual state is similar to the dream state and I believe it is common that dreams jump around.

Believe what you like, but just so you know, mere belief doesn't convince. Gotta have more.

I believe the evidence is the lack of material substance in Heaven. It is the movement of masses that creates time. The earth revolves around the sun creating times fo seasons; the earth rotates on its axis creating times of day. We go through our activities while aging creating the times of our lives.

.

Muffled · Jan 14, 2017

Skwim said:
You do know, don't you, how illogical this is?

So what? What does your physical identity have to do with time? And, just how do you come to the conclusion that time is in this spirit thing? What ever that is.

Believe what you like, but just so you know, mere belief doesn't convince. Gotta have more.

.

No, but I believe I enjoy it when people try to reason things out so be my guest.

I believe time is all about changes in physical entities. Time = distance/speed.

I believe that is what a spirit does; think just as the mind does. So if I think of my birthday in June, that does not mean time has passed to June simply because I thought about it.

I believe no-one knows what it is.

Dawnofhope · Jan 14, 2017

Muffled said:
Sura 2:97. Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah.s will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,-

98. Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and apostles, to Gabriel and Michael,- Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith.

Ge 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Joh 5:19 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father doing: for what things soever he doeth, these the Son also doeth in like manner.

Ac 25:8 while Paul said in his defense, Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar, have I sinned at all.

Whenever you see this word in the Qu'ran it is an indication that the angel is speaking and that angel is speaking on God's behalf.

I believe for Moses to know what God said God had to tell him.

I believe Jesus is God in the flesh and this verse supports that, so whenever Jesus speaks God is speaking.

I believe Paul was speaking as the Paraclete, and the voice of God.

I'm good with all that

The Bab and Baha'u'llah would communicate in a similar manner:

"Say: God sufficeth all things above all things, and nothing in the heavens or in the earth but God sufficeth. Verily, He is in Himself the Knower, the Sustainer, the Omnipotent." The Bab

"Open the doors of your hearts. He Who is the Spirit verily standeth before them. Wherefore banish ye from Him Who hath purposed to draw you nigh unto a Resplendent Spot? Say: We, in truth, have opened unto you the gates of the Kingdom. Will ye bar the doors of your houses in My face?" Baha'u'llah

Do you feel God communicates with you in a similar manner?

Muffled · Jan 19, 2017

adrianhindes said:
I'm good with all that

The Bab and Baha'u'llah would communicate in a similar manner:

"Say: God sufficeth all things above all things, and nothing in the heavens or in the earth but God sufficeth. Verily, He is in Himself the Knower, the Sustainer, the Omnipotent." The Bab

"Open the doors of your hearts. He Who is the Spirit verily standeth before them. Wherefore banish ye from Him Who hath purposed to draw you nigh unto a Resplendent Spot? Say: We, in truth, have opened unto you the gates of the Kingdom. Will ye bar the doors of your houses in My face?" Baha'u'llah

Do you feel God communicates with you in a similar manner?

I don't believe I ever heard of the Bab or the "B" man saying that they were hearing from an angel.

I believe God speaks directly through me just as He did in Jesus. How do I know that the Bab & the "B" man are not speaking my words? Because I know my words.

Dawnofhope · Jan 22, 2017

Muffled said:
I don't believe I ever heard of the Bab or the "B" man saying that they were hearing from an angel.

I believe God speaks directly through me just as He did in Jesus. How do I know that the Bab & the "B" man are not speaking my words? Because I know my words.

They don't need to spell it out as a sign. Their words and actions speak for themselves. On the other hand I don't feel ready to throw in the towel with the Baha'is and recognise the validity of your mystical experience. How could you convince me?

Muffled · Jan 26, 2017

adrianhindes said:
They don't need to spell it out as a sign. Their words and actions speak for themselves. On the other hand I don't feel ready to throw in the towel with the Baha'is and recognise the validity of your mystical experience. How could you convince me?

I believe that is true and why it is they are not speaking my words. I am the Truth but the words that the "B" man speaks are not all true. I believe they speak some things that are true but even the devil will mix in enough truth to deceive people. I do not see the "B" man as a deceiver but as an illuminati ie showing light on the writings of his day to the extent of his knowledge which of course is limited.

I believe it is as you have indicated my words bear witness of me.

I believe I am not able to do so. You have either come to know my words or you have not. I can encourage you to get to know me through my words.

1robin · Jan 26, 2017

Skwim said:
Consider: you finally die and find yourself in Heaven. A year goes by and you start taking stock of your life there.

What is your day-to-day existence like?

What do find that's keeping you from being bored, day after day after day---like forever?

This is another in an almost infinite line of anthropomorphic mistakes concerning God. It is to limit God to what a person could do. It is to say that you can not keep yourself content, at all times, in all ways, and for eternity therefor God could not accomplish it. God comes in a context. My God (you know, the one you seem to be referring to) is omniscient and omnipotent. So, unlike you or I, God lacks nothing necessary to provide us with eternal contentment. A person who has never spend a second in God's divine presence would naturally not understand what true peace and contentment felt like nor believe it possible. I do not walk around like that all the time but a few seconds is enough to open up all kinds of potential possibilities.

Skwim · Jan 26, 2017

1robin said:
This is another in an almost infinite line of anthropomorphic mistakes concerning God.

"Anthropomorphic"?? Surly you jest.

It is to limit God to what a person could do. It is to say that you can not keep yourself content, at all times, in all ways, and for eternity therefor God could not accomplish it.

All I asked is: What is your day-to-day existence like? and What do find that's keeping you from being bored, day after day after day---like forever? Have no answers? Then fine, you have no answers. :shrug:

.

* sigh* Just Another Day In Heaven

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