Homosexuality and the Church

Mister_T · Apr 17, 2006

Angel of Truth said:
It's not an issue of condoning homosexuality. Homosexual tendencies transcend a person's 'choice', being determined on a chemical and psychological level, and so cannot be regarded as true sin. I actually see homosexuality as meritable. It shows a willingness to express one's true feelings, an honesty seldom seen in this world. And who cares if someone is homosexual, how does it hurt you? Be more concerned with the alcoholic or drug addict who may get behind the wheel and end up killing someone.

Finally. Someone with common sense.

Mathematician · Apr 17, 2006

:clap

Where are all these anti-homosexual people when much more dangerous sins such as alcoholism and hatred continue to pass through our society. Clean gay sex never killed anyone, drinking has killed millions, and yet we see "wars" being waged against the first while wine and beer are stored in the fridge and the laws passed to get them out are shot down.

Ignorance and hypocropsy are inhumane sins.

Sunstone · Apr 17, 2006

How does condemning homosexuality help you spiritually?

Pah · Apr 17, 2006

FerventGodSeeker said:
In case you weren't aware, the story of Lot is not the only place in the Bible where Sodom is mentioned. Sodom and Gomorrah were known to be placed of sexual immorality, including rampant homosexuality, prostitution, etc.

And in those many places, nowhere is homsexuality mentioned.

Cite verses for the homosexuality in Gen 13 bearing in mind the many meanings of yada.

I really don't know what you're point is here. Judges 19 tells the story of a traveler and his concubine who come to a guy's house to stay the night, and they get assualted by a bunch of perverted men there who want to rape the man. The owner of the house offers the man's concubine, however, and so they rape her all night. When they free her early the next morning she collapses on the doorstep of the man's house. When he sees her lying there and she does not move or respond, he cuts her up and scatters her body parts, presumably because he takes her for dead. All in all it's not a pleasant story. However, I don't see what this has to do with a)the sexual immorality of Sodom, or b) the Biblical acceptance of homosexuality.

Judges 19 explicitly mentions male carnal sex; Gen 13 does not. Sodom was destroyed; Gibeah was not. Sex and murder took place in Gibeah; no sex nor murder in Sodom. Where was the destruction of Gibeah if homosexuality is such a sin? Why was Sodom really destroyed?

How am I forcing my religious beliefs on you? The Constitution doesn't say anything about whether or not homosexuality is morally acceptable or not, so I have no clue why you brought that up.
Ditto. I have yet to see your explanation of how the verses we have discussed in any way condone homosexuality.

The basis of the "defense of marriage" is a prohibition against a homosexual marriage. If that is to free society from sinners getting married then you force your religious beliefs on me and millions more. Society has already declared that there is no criminality in same-sex sex and yet you want to force a thought of sin into our laws? It sounds like the "sin" of homosexuality is so strong a temptation that your faith needs the power of law to maintain santicification. Altogether, it is an admission of the weakness of that faith.

The verses we've discussed have nothing to do with today's homosexuality. It is your problem that you relate them to it.

What is being sought is not approval - that is already given in Jesus's and God's love. It needs not your approval.

jonny · Apr 17, 2006

1. Homosexual Christians are sisters and brothers of all other Christians, earnestly seeking the church's full acceptance without prejudgment on the basis of a sexual orientation regarding which they had no basic choice.

I also disagree with the "no basic choice."

To quote an article I recently read:

"Now Queer This!" producer Troy Williams, a BYU alum and returned LDS missionary, proclaimed as he told the crowd he chose to be gay, and it's something he shouldn't have to apologize for.

I won't pretend to know how the brain works and I don't think we can control what we are attracted to, but I do believe we choose to act on those attractions. I don't believe people are born gay or straight. I believe that people's sexual attractions are a result of various social circumstances. Since we can't control these circumstances, I guess one could argue that we don't have a choice in our sexual preference, but I don't think that is what the author was referring to.

That being said, I agree with the rest of them.

Pah · Apr 17, 2006

jonny said:
I also disagree with the "no basic choice."

To quote an article I recently read:

While a bisexual may choose to act with partners of the same or differing sex, the orientation is usually dominate to one. But a choice is there when the preferences are nearly equaly or social circumstances dictate for others.

Jerrell · Apr 18, 2006

standing_alone said:
But isn't everyone a sinner? What makes homosexuality any worse of a sin than others?

Homosexuality is no worse a sin than Sex before Marriage. The Problem is people want to shun on certain sins, without shunning on their own sin. That is the Problem.

Jerrell · Apr 18, 2006

Homosexuals do have a Choice I can confess to this. I myself was saved from this Lifestyle. One should not say they dont have a choice. Everyone has a choice to sin, and a choice to change to live for God.

standing_alone · Apr 18, 2006

Jerrell said:
Homosexuals do have a Choice I can confess to this. I myself was saved from this Lifestyle. One should not say they dont have a choice. Everyone has a choice to sin, and a choice to change to live for God.

I'm a homosexual and it certainly wasn't a choice in my case.

Sunstone · Apr 18, 2006

standing_alone said:
I'm a homosexual and it certainly wasn't a choice in my case.

You mean you did not get the handsome set of steak knives from the International Gay Conspiracy for choosing homosexuality, Standing Alone??!!! Wow! Did you get screwed!

standing_alone · Apr 18, 2006

Sunstone said:
You mean you did not get the handsome set of steak knives from the International Gay Conspiracy for choosing homosexuality, Standing Alone??!!! Wow! Did you get screwed!

You get a set of steak knives for joining?! Now, I'm really p*****! Come to think of it, I didn't even get a form letter thanking me for joining the Gay Conspiracy. Oh, my blood is boiling...

Jerrell · Apr 18, 2006

Homosexuality is a temptation, you can either overcome it, or fall into it, it's your choice.

As for me I overcame. I chose to not live disrespecting God and his law, I live for God and I live to do hsi Will, to live in sin is not to please him.

standing_alone · Apr 18, 2006

Jerrell said:
Homosexuality is a temptation, you can either overcome it, or fall into it, it's your choice.

It most certainly was not my choice. Unless crying myself to sleep because I wanted to be straight so bad was just a choice I made...

Jerrell · Apr 18, 2006

I am sorry you had to go through this, But i cried, i cried and cried, but prayer accomplishes all things. Trust in God and he will rbing you through, dont let sin overtake you, fight for your life, fight for your God.

Jerrell · Apr 18, 2006

I was on that road, and God took me off. Why? Because i asked him too, I asked for strength aginst temptation. I knew God didn't approve of the lifestyle, i knew God had called me. So there was the Choice, be gay or live for God and be in the Ministry. i Chose God.

standing_alone · Apr 18, 2006

I don't believe in God, so I won't be praying, and I've come to the point where I accept my sexual orientation.

Jerrell · Apr 18, 2006

Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves

Romans1:26 - For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet

1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Mr 7:9 - And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Dont reject God to keep your Tradition of Sin. Dont try to cast God out of your mind that yu can live your life style.

FerventGodSeeker · Apr 18, 2006

And in those many places, nowhere is homsexuality mentioned.

"as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." Jude 7

Cite verses for the homosexuality in Gen 13 bearing in mind the many meanings of yada.

Genesis 13 only mentions Sodom in passing saying, "But the men of Sodom were exceedingly wicked and sinful against the LORD." I don't know why you singled out that reference of Sodom among the numerous ones found throughout Scripture.

Judges 19 explicitly mentions male carnal sex; Gen 13 does not. Sodom was destroyed; Gibeah was not. Sex and murder took place in Gibeah; no sex nor murder in Sodom. Where was the destruction of Gibeah if homosexuality is such a sin? Why was Sodom really destroyed?

Sodom was destroyed as an example, because there was not a single righteous person in the city (see Gen. 18-19). The Judges instance which occurred in Gibeah was a one-time event; it does not necesarily characterize the actions or attitudes of the city of Gibeah as a whole.

The basis of the "defense of marriage" is a prohibition against a homosexual marriage. If that is to free society from sinners getting married then you force your religious beliefs on me and millions more. Society has already declared that there is no criminality in same-sex sex and yet you want to force a thought of sin into our laws? It sounds like the "sin" of homosexuality is so strong a temptation that your faith needs the power of law to maintain santicification. Altogether, it is an admission of the weakness of that faith.

You're talking as though only Christians like myself oppose gay marraige. On the contrary, lots of people oppose gay marraige. I once spoke to an ardent atheist who opposed it. Changing the legal definition of marraige in the US to incorporate same-sex unions is a legal issue here as much as it is a religious/moral one, and for you to try to claim that me opposing gay marraige is "forcing my religion on you" ignores an entire aspect of the issue. I also oppose adultery on religious grounds, but I don't suppose you would consider my support of making laws against adultery "forcing my religion on you", would you? The fact that my opinions in a democratic society where my voice can be heard, are formed based on religious convictions of mine, does not mean that if my voice is the majority that I am "forcing my religion on you", it simply means my views happen to be the accepted legal position at the time. As for weakness in my faith, I'm not out to impress you; you may think whatever you want about my faith. If you consider taking a stand aganst something immoral to be "weakness", then so be it.

The verses we've discussed have nothing to do with today's homosexuality.

Says who?

It is your problem that you relate them to it.

Not really. The Church, as the pillar and ground of the truth (1 Tim 3:15), has been doing the same thing for 2,000 years. I am simply following suit as a member of the Church.

What is being sought is not approval - that is already given in Jesus's and God's love. It needs not your approval.

The fact that God loves everyone does not mean He condones everyone's acts. He loves us in spite of our sin, but that doesn't make us any less sinful. I never claimed homosexuality needed my personal approval, I don't know where you got that idea. We are discussing what God's Word says about the issue, which by implication means we're discussing whether God approves of it or not. You have yet to provide adequate interpretation (if any at all, in some cases) of the verses in question, where the Bible somehow condones homosexual acts.

FerventGodSeeker

Jerrell · Apr 18, 2006

Men wish to deny God that they may live in Darkness. They love Darkness more than the light. They run from the light and seek shelter in dark places. Gay they are and there they remain, why, Becuase they choose so.

pdoel · Apr 18, 2006

Jerrell said:
I am sorry you had to go through this, But i cried, i cried and cried, but prayer accomplishes all things. Trust in God and he will rbing you through, dont let sin overtake you, fight for your life, fight for your God.

Not true. I prayed, cried, etc., for YEARS. Constantly. I hated myself. I hated the feelings I had. I too felt that if I prayed hard enough and worshiped the Lord, that I'd "find my way".

Finally, one day, I was praying. Asking God why he did not help me. And suddenly, it hit me. I AM the person God wants me to be. Why was I trying to turn away from the purpose he had for me? I was denying the path that God had chosen for me. God did not turn on me, I had turned on God.

I have since accepted my homosexuality and realized I AM the person God intended me to be. I've never been happier, and I still pray and worship the Lord.

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Homosexuality and the Church

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