Did Jesus say he was God???

Jensen · Dec 19, 2014

Muffled said:
I believe your lack of comprehension does not serve as a good argument to the contrary.

I believe that I am stating the truth but I am willing to hear why you think otherwise. What would you think of me if all I did for an argument was state that Jesus said He is God?

I believe I have over 400 pages of good solid arguments that have not yet been refuted.

Well, this certainly isn't difficult to comprehend....

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

or do you disagree, that what he said here isn't what he really meant?

How about this? It isn't difficult to comprehend either...that Jesus is not God...

Hebrews 2:17
For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.

How difficult is it to understand....that in the bible it says that he is the Son.
It truly isn't that hard to comprehend actually.

Harikrish · Dec 20, 2014

Every time Jesus tried to say he was God he was threatened with stoning. It is only after his death that Christians exalted him to the status of God. The people did not believe he was God nor did the disciples.
If God in all his wisdom wanted people to believe he was Jesus, he failed. Most Christians believe there are 3 gods in one called the trinity doctrine. So Mary was impregnated by three and only Jesus remained in her till she gave birth to him. So Jesus was abandoned by the other 2 Gods even before conception. There isn't any medical science to support this gang banger. We have to take Jesus at his word he was the son of god.

Muffled · Dec 22, 2014

Harikrish said:
Jesus suffered from the messiah complex. He began to believe he was the Christ and prepared himself to suffer the role of the suffering saviour prophesied in Isaiah 53. But he gave himself away on the cross.

Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").

I believe this is not evidence that Jesus is not God only evidence that Jesus knows his prophectic Psalms and how He fulfills them.

The evidence is that the words of Jesus are backed up by the words of God, the miracles performed and the resurrection.

Muffled · Dec 22, 2014

Jensen said: "Well, this certainly isn't difficult to comprehend....

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

or do you disagree, that what he said here isn't what he really meant?

How about this? It isn't difficult to comprehend either...that Jesus is not God...

Hebrews 2:17
For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.

How difficult is it to understand....that in the bible it says that he is the Son.
It truly isn't that hard to comprehend actually."

I don't believe it means what you think it means and I believe your reasoning is flawed.

I believe it does not say that, so you have used flaweed reasoning to think it does.

I don't believe there is any problem with what the Bible says and I understand it well that saying Jesus is the Son of God means that He is God.

Muffled · Dec 22, 2014

Greatest I am said:
That may have been the moment that Jesus recognized that substitutionary atonement, what he was attempting, would be rejected by a moral God.

Just as moral men will reject using a scapegoat to hide from their own responsibilities.

Regards
DL

I don't believe you speak for God. I see no such recognition in the scripture so it shows how much fantasy is being applied in this instance.

I don't beleive you have the ability to decide who is moral and who is not.

Harikrish · Dec 22, 2014

Muffled said:
I believe this is not evidence that Jesus is not God only evidence that Jesus knows his prophectic Psalms and how He fulfills them.

The evidence is that the words of Jesus are backed up by the words of God, the miracles performed and the resurrection.

After all that planning and 700 years in the making (Isaiah was written about 700 years before Jesus. Jesus summed it up in one sentence.

Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").

Jensen · Dec 22, 2014

Muffled said:
Jensen said: "Well, this certainly isn't difficult to comprehend....

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

or do you disagree, that what he said here isn't what he really meant?

How about this? It isn't difficult to comprehend either...that Jesus is not God...

Hebrews 2:17
For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.

How difficult is it to understand....that in the bible it says that he is the Son.
It truly isn't that hard to comprehend actually."

I don't believe it means what you think it means and I believe your reasoning is flawed.

I believe it does not say that, so you have used flaweed reasoning to think it does.

I don't believe there is any problem with what the Bible says and I understand it well that saying Jesus is the Son of God means that He is God.

Oh, I get it, Jesus really didn't mean what he said there, it isn't what he really meant.

Jesus saying this.."I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God" isn't what he really meant! Why did he say it then!

I suppose you know better what he really meant to say? than what he did say?

As for the bible, if "Son of God" means he is God, then it should say that.....and it doesn't.

“This is life eternal, that they might know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent,” John 17:3. This was said by Jesus in prayer to his Father and our Father.

“It is written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one who bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me,” John 8:17, 18.

“And lo, a voice from heaven, saying, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased,” Matt. 3:17.

The voice from heaven says that this is my beloved SON, not that this is God.

“God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power,” Acts 10:38.

“For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,” 1 Tim. 2:5.

Harikrish · Dec 23, 2014

Jesus said many things and made many claims. One can read almost anything in his words because he was awkwardly evasive. But he never said he was God.

Greatest I am · Dec 26, 2014

Harikrish said:
Every time Jesus tried to say he was God he was threatened with stoning. It is only after his death that Christians exalted him to the status of God. The people did not believe he was God nor did the disciples.
If God in all his wisdom wanted people to believe he was Jesus, he failed. Most Christians believe there are 3 gods in one called the trinity doctrine. So Mary was impregnated by three and only Jesus remained in her till she gave birth to him. So Jesus was abandoned by the other 2 Gods even before conception. There isn't any medical science to support this gang banger. We have to take Jesus at his word he was the son of god.

And that we all can be as well. This second link speaks strongly to that notion.

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized to activate your higher mind.

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus, in the esoteric sense.

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. Becoming a God is to become more fully human and a brethren to Jesus.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am · Dec 26, 2014

Muffled said:
I don't believe there is any problem with what the Bible says and I understand it well that saying Jesus is the Son of God means that He is God.

Show the scripture then that says that God can die.

Do you not think it would be a stupid God that would condemn his creation and then turn about and die to forgive them?

Do you ever use logic and reason?

Regards
DL

Greatest I am · Dec 26, 2014

Muffled said:
I don't believe you speak for God. I see no such recognition in the scripture so it shows how much fantasy is being applied in this instance.

I don't beleive you have the ability to decide who is moral and who is not.

Do you?

If so, speak to the morality shown by your teachings on your profiting from the torture and murder of the innocent instead of the guilty.

Let me help you and try to make you think.

Imagine you have two children. One of your children does something wrong – say it curses, or throws a temper tantrum, or something like that. In fact, say it does this on a regular basis, and you continually forgive your child, but it never seems to change.

Now suppose one day you’ve had enough, you need to do something different. You still wish to forgive your child, but nothing has worked. Do you go to your second child, your good child, and punish it to atone for the sins of the first?
In fact, if you ever saw a parent on the street punish one of their children for the actions of their other child, how would you react? Would you support their decision, or would you be offended? Because God punished Jesus -- his good child -- for the sins of his other children.

Interestingly, some historical royal families would beat their slaves when their own children did wrong – you should not, after all, ever beat a prince. The question is: what kind of lesson does that teach the child who actually did the harm? Does it teach them to be a better person, to stop doing harm, or does it teach them both that they won't themselves be punished, and also that punishing other people is normal? I know that's not a lesson I would want to teach my children, and I suspect it's not a lesson most Christians would want to teach theirs. So why does God?

For me, that’s at least one significant reason I find Jesus’ atonement of our sin to be morally repugnant – of course, that’s assuming Jesus ever existed; that original sin actually exists; that God actually exists; etc.

Is it moral to punish the innocent instead of the guilty?

Regards
DL

Greatest I am · Dec 26, 2014

Harikrish said:
Jesus said many things and made many claims. One can read almost anything in his words because he was awkwardly evasive. But he never said he was God.

The absence of evidence is evidence especially when Jesus often denied being the Father.

Regards
DL

Muffled · Dec 29, 2014

Jensen said:
Oh, I get it, Jesus really didn't mean what he said there, it isn't what he really meant.

Jesus saying this.."I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God" isn't what he really meant! Why did he say it then!

I suppose you know better what he really meant to say? than what he did say?

As for the bible, if "Son of God" means he is God, then it should say that.....and it doesn't.

“This is life eternal, that they might know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent,” John 17:3. This was said by Jesus in prayer to his Father and our Father.

“It is written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one who bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me,” John 8:17, 18.

“And lo, a voice from heaven, saying, this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased,” Matt. 3:17.

The voice from heaven says that this is my beloved SON, not that this is God.

“God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power,” Acts 10:38.

“For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,” 1 Tim. 2:5.

I believe you don't get it. Jesus did not mean what you say he meant.

I believe this is the null hyposthesis. One must prove that there is sufficient reason for the Bible to say that otherwise the fact that it wasn't stated meant that there was sufficient information in the Bible so it wasn't necessary to say it.

I believe this is the null hypothesis again.

Muffled · Dec 29, 2014

Harikrish said:
After all that planning and 700 years in the making (Isaiah was written about 700 years before Jesus. Jesus summed it up in one sentence.

Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").

I believe I am not aware of what you think Jesus summed up. I see no evidence that this is a sumary statement or even that it is a statement. I believe it is a quote not a statement.

Muffled · Dec 29, 2014

Greatest I am said:
Show the scripture then that says that God can die.

Do you not think it would be a stupid God that would condemn his creation and then turn about and die to forgive them?

Do you ever use logic and reason?

Regards
DL

I believe I always use logic and reason.

Why would I want to do that when God did not die?

I believe what Jesus said:
John 3:17 For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him.

I believe this is the reason He died:
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up;
15 that whosoever believeth may in him have eternal life.

Muffled · Dec 29, 2014

Greatest I am said:
The absence of evidence is evidence especially when Jesus often denied being the Father.

Regards
DL

I believe Jesus is not the Father but is one with the Father as He said.
I believe there is one God who can't be divided by the fact that He is everywhere. So God in the body of Jesus is called the Son and God outside of the body of Jesus is called the Father.

Jensen · Dec 30, 2014

Muffled said:
I believe you don't get it. Jesus did not mean what you say he meant.

I believe this is the null hyposthesis. One must prove that there is sufficient reason for the Bible to say that otherwise the fact that it wasn't stated meant that there was sufficient information in the Bible so it wasn't necessary to say it.

I believe this is the null hypothesis again.

Oh, I get it. Jesus didn't really know what he was saying....that you know what he meant to say....which is something other than what he did say.
When not liking something that Jesus said, or the obvious meaning of what he said.....hey, just change the meaning to what you want it to have said.
I've read the bible a number of times from beginning to end, and in context it does not teach or claim that Jesus is God.

Well, God was "outside of the body of Jesus" in the OT, and God was referred to as father only several times in the OT.

God is not a God of confusion.

Best of luck to you and the others here, as I will not be back for a long while........
My Mother passed away and I am not in a mood for discussion at this time.
I really have no interest at this time in messages boards, there are better things in life to be doing.

Muffled · Jan 1, 2015

Jensen said:
Oh, I get it. Jesus didn't really know what he was saying....that you know what he meant to say....which is something other than what he did say.
When not liking something that Jesus said, or the obvious meaning of what he said.....hey, just change the meaning to what you want it to have said.
I've read the bible a number of times from beginning to end, and in context it does not teach or claim that Jesus is God.

Well, God was "outside of the body of Jesus" in the OT, and God was referred to as father only several times in the OT.

God is not a God of confusion.

Best of luck to you and the others here, as I will not be back for a long while........
My Mother passed away and I am not in a mood for discussion at this time.
I really have no interest at this time in messages boards, there are better things in life to be doing.

You have my condolences. I believe you will miss her. I know I still miss my mother.

I believe for the sake of other readers I will reply. I believe Jesus did not mean that He is not God by what He said and I believe it is not good logic to say that his statements meant that.

I have read the Bible from beginning to end in several translations in context and I believe the evidence is overwhelming that Jesus was God in the flesh.

I believe all of the Spirit of God was outside a body in the OT, so there was no need to make a dichotomy but Jesus used the term Father to distinguish between the two.

I believe my God is not confused and says that Jesus is God in the flesh.

Muffled · Jan 6, 2015

mahasn ebn sawresho said:
I am a God" in Gospel?
Yes there are no these words in the Bible
But all the words of Christ that God
Here you should know
Heis some times known by the characteristic
Example-
When I say.
I am defending the accused incourts
These character is tics mean that Iad vocate
And also
Surgery to the patient number five
This means I amdoctor
Well I lift make doors
This means I am Carpenter
These examples
The students did not pass on words of Christ which says that God
But they wrote the attributes
And his words that we understand that he is God

Jesus would never say I am a god because there are not two Gods. Jesus says I am God in affect by saying that He is one with God.

Jesus says "all authority is given me in Heaven and on earth." Like a carpenter makes doors God has authority.

leibowde84 · Feb 4, 2015

Muffled said:
I have been asked to produce evidence of the divinity of Jesus. This is not just good evidence, it is overwhelming evidence.

Words of Jesus

John 14:9 ... he that hath seen me hath seen the Father
John 14:10 ... the words that I say unto you , I speak not from myself but from the Father abiding in Me doeth His works
John 14:11 ... I am in the Father and the Father in Me
John 10:30 I and My Father are one
John 10:33 ... thou being a man makest Thyself God
John 8:58 Jesus said ... before Abraham was born, Jah (Jah is the short form of Jeshovah)
John 8:59 They took up stones therefore to cast at Him
Mark 2:5 and Jesus seeing their faith saith ... thy sins are forgiven
Mark 2:7 ... who can forgive sins but one, even God
Mark 10:17 ... good teacher Mark 10:18 Why callest Me good? None is good save one, even God John 10:11 I am the good shepherd
Mat. 1:21 ... call his name Jesus; for it is He that shall save his people from their sins
Prophecies of the Messiah Jesus
Isa. 45:21 ... I, Jehovah? and there is no God else besides Me a just God and savior, there is none besides Me
Isa. 7:14 ... a sign: behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call His name Immanuel (God with us)
Isa 9:6 a son is given, and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called: Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

Attributes of God
Omnipresence
John 1:46 Nathaniel saith unto Him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him Before Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
John 1:49 Nathaniel answered him, Rabbi thou art the Son of God; thou art King of Israel.
John 1:50 Jesus answered ... thou shalt see greater things than these
Omniscience
Luke 6:8 ...the Pharisees watched Him ... that they might find how to accuse him but He knew their thoughts
John 4:17 ... Thou sayest well, I have no husband
John 4:18 for thou hast had five husbands and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband
Omnipotence
Mark 4:41 ... Who then is this, that even the wind and the sea obey Him?

(He turned water into wine, multiplied bread, healed the sick and the blind, raised a man who was dead for four days)
Authority
Luke 4:36 ... for with authority and power He commandeth the unclean spirits and they come out
Mat 7:29 for He taught them as one having authority
Mat 28:18 ... Jesus ...spake... saying, all authority hath been given unto Me in heaven and on earth
The "I am" statements of Jesus
John 8:12 ... I am the light of the world
John 14:6 ... I am the way, the truth and the life
John 6:35 ... I am the bread of life
John 10:9 I am the door, by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved
John 11:25 ... I am the resurrection and the life
John 15:1 I am the true vine (this is a reference to Jesus being the Paraclete)

Assuming that the Bible is an accurate documentation of Jesus' true words, I guess you are right.

Did Jesus say he was God???

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