Watchtower Governing Body: Are They The Exclusive Channel For God??

Katiemygirl said : " ... I'd like to see this "organization" trace themselves to the CHURCH, which was established on Pentecost. " (post # 310)

Hi Katiemygirl : I am interested in your theory that the Church (εκκλεσια) "was established on Pentecost". Can you explain why you think this was the first time individuals who believed Gods message were called to gather or assemble.

Thanks in advance for your information.


Clear
εισιφιειω

Clear said:

Katiemygirl said : " ... I'd like to see this "organization" trace themselves to the CHURCH, which was established on Pentecost. " (post # 310)

Hi Katiemygirl : I am interested in your theory that the Church (εκκλεσια) "was established on Pentecost". Can you explain why you think this was the first time individuals who believed Gods message were called to gather or assemble.

Thanks in advance for your information.


Clear
εισιφιειω

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It is when they were born again of The Holy Spirit.

savagewind said:

The demons go off to destruction. They actually KNOW it. Don't they? So partaking of their table means to forsake life. It doesn't mean little things like trees and presents, eggs and chocolate.

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You are in error--God sees different--- anything that had to do with false god worship originally came off the table of demons. It goes all the way back to the tower of Babel, when God scattered them throughout the earth and all the false god worship practices carried with them--down to this day they still live--that is why God called all false religions--Babylon the great. It is satan transforming into an angel of light, using love, sharing to get 99% to keep partaking off that table.

kjw47 said:

You are in error--God sees different--- anything that had to do with false god worship originally came off the table of demons. It goes all the way back to the tower of Babel, when God scattered them throughout the earth and all the false god worship practices carried with them--down to this day they still live--that is why God called all false religions--Babylon the great. It is satan transforming into an angel of light, using love, sharing to get 99% to keep partaking off that table.

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That is what THEY say. OK? Did you not take my suggestion seriously? Obviously not.* Please stop saying you know what God "sees", thinks, feels et cetera. It is good advice. You should consider it.

*consider it "food at the proper time" LOL

Clear said:

Katiemygirl said : " ... I'd like to see this "organization" trace themselves to the CHURCH, which was established on Pentecost. " (post # 310)

Hi Katiemygirl : I am interested in your theory that the Church (εκκλεσια) "was established on Pentecost". Can you explain why you think this was the first time individuals who believed Gods message were called to gather or assemble.

Thanks in advance for your information.


Clear
εισιφιειω

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Good question Clear. Thank you for the opportunity to answer it.

Please understand that I did not say Pentecost was the first time individuals who believed God's message assembled. The Israelites assembled, after all.

I'm specifically speaking of the church, which Jesus promised to build in Matthew 16:18-19, also known as the the kingdom.

18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Notice Jesus did not say He would add to something already in existence.

The church could have no functioning head until after Christ's resurrection.

In one breath Jesus calls it "My church" and in the next "the kingdom of heaven."

Jesus preached that the kingdom was at hand (Matthew 3:2)

In Mark 9:1, Jesus assured His listeners that the kingdom would come before some of them died. He also promised the kingdom would come with power.

9 And He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power.”

In Acts 1:8, Jesus told His apostles,

8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Acts 2:1-4. The kingdom came with the power of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost.

1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Several other things occurred on the Day of Pentecost. The disciples were filled with the Spirit (Acts 2:4). Three thousand were baptized with water (v. 41). The visible church began that day (vv. 42-47).

The kingdom was in existence in Paul's time.

Col. 1:13
13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

The church is the congregation or assembly of God's people. They are a holy people.

The church and the kingdom are the same thing. Christians are citizens of the kingdom. Jesus is the King. He currently reigns from heaven over His kingdom.

When Jesus comes again, the dead in Christ will rise. Those christians who are still living will be changed in the twinkling of an eye. They will meet Jesus in the air. Jesus will then deliver up (not establish) the kingdom to God.

1 Cor. 15:24
Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.

The kingdom of God today is visibly manifested in His church, that community of souls who submit to His will.

I am looking forward to the eternal aspects of His kingdom.

The Jehovah Witnesses had to rewrite the Bible, the Bible as written by those who did not want to lean to the right or to the left of God's word.

The Jehovah Witnesses believe in many false teachings, because they believe in a Bible that they REWROTE.

The Jehovah Witnesses do not even believe in the life of our spirits. How then are they going to believe in what the Father of our spirits say?

Hebrews 12:9.

katiemygirl said:

If the WTO's GB is God's exclusive channel, and they are the "fathful slave," then who was the "faithful slave" before Russell?

If JW's are God's visible organization on earth, then prior to Russell, which religious group taught what JW's teach?

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In the context of Jesus pointing for us to question "Who are the faithful and discreet slave?" or "Who is the faith steward, the discreet one?," we have to keep in mind that Jesus was talking about his pa-rou-si'a and the conclusion of the system of things. (Mt 24:3) Throughout the centuries, true Christianity was in exile in Babylon the Great once the apostasy (the "weeds") overwhelmed the wheat. Only in the "Lord's Day" would there be a cry to "Get out of her my people!" (Re 18:4)

So the question only became relevant as this society of man was entering and has continued to be in it's "last days."

Kolibri said:

In the context of Jesus pointing for us to question "Who are the faithful and discreet slave?" or "Who is the faith steward, the discreet one?," we have to keep in mind that Jesus was talking about his pa-rou-si'a and the conclusion of the system of things. (Mt 24:3) Throughout the centuries, true Christianity was in exile in Babylon the Great once the apostasy (the "weeds") overwhelmed the wheat. Only in the "Lord's Day" would there be a cry to "Get out of her my people!" (Re 18:4)

So the question is only became relevant as this society of man was entering and has continued to be in the "last days."

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Romans 6:16
Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
Romans 6:18; Romans 6:22; 1 Corinthians 7:22; 2 Timothy 2:24; Ephesians 6:6.

We were bought.
1 Corinthians 6:20
you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

All who obey Jesus are slaves and bought by Jesus Christ.

katiemygirl said:

It sure isn't the Jehovah Witnesses!
Adding to and taking away from God's word is not doing God's will. And constant doctrinal changes surely isn't doing His will either. God's word NEVER changes. Truth is constant.

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What is Gods Will according to the scriptures?

katiemygirl said:

Imagine God directing the JW's to worship Jesus, from the time the group formed, and then He changes His mind in 1954, calling it idolatry . Imagine God telling JW's to worship a FALSE god. You say Jesus is not God, yet JW's were told to worship Jesus, that is, until 1954. And how does the organization defend this flip flop? It's done under the phony guise of the light gets brighter. Do you really believe God would command His people to commit idolatry, EVER? Think about that!

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all christians thought that Jesus was God back then. It had been taught that way for many centuries. JW's used to celebrate christmas, join the army and smoke cigarettes in the early days too. But their personal study of the bible caused them to rethink a lot of those 'normal' practices and beliefs. And thankfully, they were willing to change them. Now we have a christian denomination who actually DO what Gods asks and who's beliefs are more in line with the truth of Gods word.

katiemygirl said:

Yet you claim this organization is being directed by God, and that they have the Holy Spirit. I don't think so, not based on it's history. The evidence, found in the WT literature, is overwhelming. Over and over again, it contradicts the word of God. The WTO is a false prophet.

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From what i've seen, JW's are doing Gods Will in harmony with the scriptures. Would you like to tell us what you believe Gods will is so and show it from the scriptures? That is really the only way to know if we are doing Gods Will or not.

And I would also like you to tell us how the holy spirit works today? What is its role according to the scriptures?

Lets test it out.

katiemygirl said:

Yes you can! I'm hoping they will answer, too, because I'd like to see this "organization" trace themselves to the CHURCH, which was established on Pentecost.

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thats not quite how it works. No one can 'trace' themselves back to the church... all christians are part of it and have been since the time Jesus established it.

The problem is that not all Christians have remained true to Christianity. The religious teachers of the major denominations were not being good caretakers and many sincere christians left the church and began forming their own.... thats why there are so many different christian groups today. And when Christ came as King, he inspected them all and looked for those who he could work with. He looked for those willing to adapt and change and be corrected.

Kolibri said:

In the context of Jesus pointing for us to question "Who are the faithful and discreet slave?" or "Who is the faith steward, the discreet one?," we have to keep in mind that Jesus was talking about his pa-rou-si'a and the conclusion of the system of things. (Mt 24:3) Throughout the centuries, true Christianity was in exile in Babylon the Great once the apostasy (the "weeds") overwhelmed the wheat. Only in the "Lord's Day" would there be a cry to "Get out of her my people!" (Re 18:4)

So the question is only became relevant as this society of man was entering and has continued to be in the "last days."

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Precious! Why did Jesus use the present tense verb? Also JW do not believe in predestination. They teach that Jesus came to inspect the people calling him God's son and found The International Bible Students and no one else. Why if they were predestined did he have to come to "inspect' them?

katiemygirl said:

If the WTO's GB is God's exclusive channel, and they are the "fathful slave," then who was the "faithful slave" before Russell?

If JW's are God's visible organization on earth, then prior to Russell, which religious group taught what JW's teach?

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No one did. They believe the truth died with the death of the last apostle. So which group taught what the JWs teach? Only the early Christians who listen to Paul did. Then no group for two thousand years. Then the early Bible Students but they didn't teach the truth only some of it. Jesus calls them faithful and discreet because it is said they will readjust their thinking if need be. No other group will do that according to the JWs.

It seems that according to them the individual is nothing. The group is everything.

The message I am getting from the JWs is that God is not one bit interested in making the good news make sense. We are on our own until we join with the governing body of JWs who alone can make sense of the good news.

If Jesus is for understanding why didn't he say "in the time of the end who will be the people who are faithful and discreet? They will lead you into all the knowledge of God". Why did he leave a bad riddle to figure out?

savagewind said:

That is what THEY say. OK? Did you not take my suggestion seriously? Obviously not.* Please stop saying you know what God "sees", thinks, feels et cetera. It is good advice. You should consider it.

*consider it "food at the proper time" LOL

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The WORLD-- Jesus taught to be no part of would make ones family members their spiritual enemies Jesus taught. that included the pagan practices instilled centuries ago into the traditions and celebrations-- fact.

Another unanswered question. Why did God leave a riddle for answering right to save a life?

kjw47 said:

The WORLD-- Jesus taught to be no part of would make ones family members their spiritual enemies Jesus taught. that included the pagan practices instilled centuries ago into the traditions and celebrations-- fact.

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Define "The World" that Jesus says to be no part of. Please.

JWs define the world as everything but them. Before the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses existed there was a warning to be free of the world. What is it?

savagewind said:

Define "The World" that Jesus says to be no part of. Please.

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Here is a major part---- fornicating with the kings( govts) of the earth.

voting for corrupt politicians-2Peter 2:19
supporting corrupt politicians
running as a corrupt politician
killing for corrupt politicians

1Cor 6:9-11-- Galations 5:19-21

Participating in pagan practices in the traditions and celebrations of the WORLD.

that's a large part.

Kolibri said:

In the context of Jesus pointing for us to question "Who are the faithful and discreet slave?" or "Who is the faith steward, the discreet one?," we have to keep in mind that Jesus was talking about his pa-rou-si'a and the conclusion of the system of things. (Mt 24:3) Throughout the centuries, true Christianity was in exile in Babylon the Great once the apostasy (the "weeds") overwhelmed the wheat. Only in the "Lord's Day" would there be a cry to "Get out of her my people!" (Re 18:4)

So the question only became relevant as this society of man was entering and has continued to be in it's "last days."

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The church, which Jesus built, can be traced back to Pentecost. She can, and always has been identified by her teachings and practices. They have not changed from day one.

The members of the church, which Jesus built, were called CHRISTIANS (Acts 11:26), not Jehovah's Witnesses. JW's didn't even exist until 150 years ago.

All Christians in the NT church shared the Lord's Supper, not just a select few.

7 On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight. (Acts 20:7)

Some christians in Corinth were abusing the Lord's Supper. Paul needed to correct them.

23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.

27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.

33 So then, my brothers and sisters, when you gather to eat, you should all eat together. 34 Anyone who is hungry should eat something at home, so that when you meet together it may not result in judgment.

Again, ALL christians broke bread in the New Testament church.

16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break participation in the body of Christ?17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

JW's do not share the Lord's Supper as Jesus commanded. Only a select group do.

Look closely at the New Testament church. On the day of Pentecost, when the church came into existence, 3,000 converts were baptized. They heard the word. They believed it, and THAT DAY they were baptized. There was no waiting around to be indoctrinated the way the JW's do.

The New Testament church continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship” (vs. 42) They didn't flip flop and change doctrine the way JW's do.

“And the Lord added to the Church daily such as should be saved.” In the church, whichChrist guides and directs, He is the One who adds to it. (vs. 47)

The JW's are not the church that Jesus built. All one needs to do is take a close look at the New Testament church to know that the JW's don't measure up.

You see, the true church, which Jesus built, can be traced right back to the New Testament.