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Why "one God"?

Sabour

Well-Known Member
Islam CLAIMS it was there from day one anyway. The Quran says what I said about safwa and marwa.

I am not refuting what you said about the Safwa and Marwa. However I am refuting that you said they are preislamic.

This is what Islam teaches.


( If you feel annoyed with our discussion at anytime we can stop it, just please tell me)
 

Gnostic Seeker

Spiritual
Islam can teach whatever it wants to teach. Jesus, David, Solomon, etc. were Jews. They were all from Judah, which is the root of Jew. When Israel split into two kingdoms because of Jeroboam usurping power, Judah were those loyal to David's house, because he was of that tribe.

History and archaeology prove humans were polytheist before monotheism was ever thought of. I know you as a Muslim won't accept that. That's your belief.
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
Why do you think I'm annoyed? o_O
Lol. I don't think you are annoyed I am just making sure that if you got annoyed you would tell me instead of throwing illogical things so that you would end the discussion. Sorry to put it that way, but I have seen it many times happening on this forum and not only with me.
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
Islam can teach whatever it wants to teach. Jesus, David, Solomon, etc. were Jews. They were all from Judah, which is the root of Jew. When Israel split into two kingdoms because of Jeroboam usurping power, Judah were those loyal to David's house, because he was of that tribe.

History and archaeology prove humans were polytheist before monotheism was ever thought of. I know you as a Muslim won't accept that. That's your belief.

I think you are in no position to say that. "Muslim" is an Arabic word and you have to look up the meaning of that word in Arabic in order to know what a "muslim" means.

It is only today's muslims who are followers of Muhammad peace be upon him.

Before Muhammad peace be upon him came, a muslim was that who followed Jesus peace be upon him.

Before Jesus peace be upon him, a muslim was one who follows Moses peace be upon him.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
The Bible has many prophecies that have been fulfilled. One example is the Bible foretold Babylon's conqueror's name, long before he was born, and how Babylon would fall. Also that this man Cyrus would release the Jews and allow them to return to their homeland. The inspired prophecy also foretold how long Israel would be held captive in Babylon. It all came true.
(Isaiah 44:28, 45:1-6, Daniel 9:2)


Just one problem! As with the NT - the info/stories were collected and written down - AFTER the events. So no!


*
 
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morphesium

Active Member
Can they replace the drinking water ?
NO. but if you isolate the heavy components of water (deuterium dioxide ) which itself is water,
and drink that instead of plain water, one metabolics will go down and eventually die.

Do they naturally exist or manufactured ?
Now these are the stable isotopes that occur naturally . If we manufacture, we can create more combinations of water.
 

morphesium

Active Member
Do you have a God and i have another different God ?

Were you created by a God different than mine ?

Do you see it logical that you have God in you and i have another God in me ..etc ?

I guess you are misinterpreting my post.
I never talked about different Gods.
 

Thruve

Sheppard for the Die Hard
From an anthropological perspective, it is because their monotheism usually develops as an attempt at growing out of ethnocentrism. We have simply not reached the stage when whole peoples manage to understand better.

Then there is the matter of whether "all religions" can truly share the same vision of deity. It is simple enough to show that not to be the case.

I agree. Yet, according to your first remark, to which I fully agree, if the masses reached a stage as a whole to better understand it all, then the false/irrelevant aspects of religion that differentiate and separate eachother would diminish, No? Then we would all share the same visions of a deity. Obviously the human mass would never reach such a stage of understanding, but hypothetically speaking we all potentially can see it the same way. I basically said this in my second post from the one you quoted, but I cant deny there's too much fluffly bs in religion that needs to be deleted from our legacy dude, like, way too much bs.


Personally, I was raised as a christian, but over time I kept asking myself why the hell that man over there is going to hell for being a follower of islam. Then I realized hes not, its the BS the pastors tell me that suggests that. The pastors wrong, not the purpose the messages in the bible portray, as the purpose is different depending on the individual. We ALL interpret messages of the bible differently, especially those to which we can apply our experiences and events in our lives to. Take the stupidly basic of them all, the story of adam and Eve. Do i really believe there was a single tree that contained the fruit of knowledge of good and evil? Hell No. But what purpose has it served me? It confirms my understanding that some things are better left unknown, and its often better to be naive in some ways than others. Now, I choose what knowledge I want to obtain more carefully, which is why I changed my mind about wanting to be a deputy. To others, it shows our defiant nature. etc. My point is, a devout follower of Islam spiritually can't/doesn't need the Christian path to fulfill his purpose in this life. Islam helps him on his path, not Christianity. Besides, whos to say he never met Jesus face to face in his own life anyway that set him free from chains that would have otherwise lead him to commit suicide.

That's Just a part of my reasoning. Religions have purpose to many, but clearly not all, but as I've stated before, the divine cannot have the best of both worlds, which is why reaching out to the masses through dozens of religions also causes conflict between them at the same time.
 
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morphesium

Active Member
W

Where does the Bible speak of the geocentric theory?

If you learn history, you will see that many people were burnt at stake just because - they believed in heliocentric theory something that's against the bible.

Christian theologians were reluctant to reject a theory that agreed with Bible passages (e.g. "Sun, stand you still upon Gibeon", Joshua 10:12 – King James 2000 Bible). Others felt a new, unknown theory could not subvert an accepted consensus for geocentrism.
link Geocentric model - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The most important biblical quote supporting a geocentric universe can be found in the Book of Joshua. This will be used as the starting point for our scriptural cosmology.

Joshua 10:12-13
Then spoke Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord gave the Amorites over to the men of Israel; and he said in the sight of Israel, "Sun, stand thou still at Gibeon, and thou Moon in the valley of Aijalon." And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stayed in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.

What about genetics. Darwin kept his theory of the "orgin of the species" under the shelf for twenty years before trying to publish out of fear that he could be punished since it was not according to the bible.

Do you believe in genetics.

If you believe in genetics, or in heliocentric theory or has some basics of modern anatomy of the human body and if someone puts you (with the help of a time machine) in front of the Christians back then, The church would order to burn you at stake. (something very similar, those ISIS people would do nowadays).
 
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LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I agree. Yet, according to your first remark, to which I fully agree, if the masses reached a stage as a whole to better understand it all, then the false/irrelevant aspects of religion that differentiate and separate eachother would diminish, No?

One would hope so, although it is not a given and it is possible for that transition to fail. It will not be painless, either. Part of the proccess involves confronting the silly and destructive nature of many beliefs. For that reason, it can't possibly work without a lot of structure building happening first.

Ideally, the most troublesome Churches and cults (Westboro comes to mind, as do ISIS and whoever has to deal with the beliefs of Oliver North, Sarah Palin, Ann Coulter, Michele Bachmann and the Reagans and Bushes) should be dissolved as gently as possible into less troubled configurations in one of the earliest steps. Or else their members will need to be in effect sacrificed while still living in support of the common good.


Then we would all share the same visions of a deity.

Probably not. We would however lend those disagreements a whole lot less importance. Personal understandings of deities are just not something that needs to be standardized.

God will be One and Only for some, One as Three for others, Manifest In All for yet others, Manifest as Many for yet another group, Fully Unimportant for so many others. And that is just not a problem in and of itself.


Obviously the human mass would never reach such a stage of understanding, but hypothetically speaking we all potentially can see it the same way.

That I very much doubt. There are, however, some general trends that must be well-understood and well-accepted if we hope to avoid major crises as our population levels and collective ambitions keep growing.


I basically said this in my second post from the one you quoted, but I cant deny there's too much fluffly bs in religion that needs to be deleted from our legacy dude, like, way too much bs.


Personally, I was raised as a christian, but over time I kept asking myself why the hell that man over there is going to hell for being a follower of islam. Then I realized hes not, its the BS the pastors tell me that suggests that. The pastors wrong, not the purpose the messages in the bible portray, as the purpose is different depending on the individual. We ALL interpret messages of the bible differently, especially those to which we can apply our experiences and events in our lives to. Take the stupidly basic of them all, the story of adam and Eve. Do i really believe there was a single tree that contained the fruit of knowledge of good and evil? Hell No. But what purpose has it served me? It confirms my understanding that some things are better left unknown, and its often better to be naive in some ways than others. Now, I choose what knowledge I want to obtain more carefully, which is why I changed my mind about wanting to be a deputy. To others, it shows our defiant nature. etc. My point is, a devout follower of Islam spiritually can't/doesn't need the Christian path to fulfill his purpose in this life. Islam helps him on his path, not Christianity. Besides, whos to say he never met Jesus face to face in his own life anyway that set him free from chains that would have otherwise lead him to commit suicide.

I don't exactly disagree, but I think you should also consider that many people have been raised into paths that do not really suit them. One of the most difficult religious challenges yet to be faced is deciding what to do in those cases.

Far too often we try not to think too much about it and hope the problem will solve itself without troubling us. Yet it is not really possible to honorably deal with such a challenge by ignoring it. Not at this point in History.


That's Just a part of my reasoning. Religions have purpose to many, but clearly not all, but as I've stated before, the divine cannot have the best of both worlds, which is why reaching out to the masses through dozens of religions also causes conflict between them at the same time.

Conflict is unavoidable, but it is our duty to seek ways of expressing it that are tolerable.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
NO. but if you isolate the heavy components of water (deuterium dioxide ) which itself is water,
and drink that instead of plain water, one metabolics will go down and eventually die.


Now these are the stable isotopes that occur naturally . If we manufacture, we can create more combinations of water.

So there is one natural water which is H2O, Separating isotopes by Centrifugal effect and other methods is another subject.

I don't like philosophical thinking.
 
Yes, but what makes people believe there's only one god? There isn't just one of anything in the universe we know of. Plurality seems to be the rule.

Not to mention most people who have a monotheistic concept regard this one God as a male and consistently subjugates women. The irony is females are the ones that give life of almost all species yet it's a male perceived as the first cause and creator of life. Something doesn't jive, hmm...
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
Not to mention most people who have a monotheistic concept regard this one God as a male and consistently subjugates women. The irony is females are the ones that give life of almost all species yet it's a male perceived as the first cause and creator of life. Something doesn't jive, hmm...

God has no gender
 
You sure about that?

For You are our Father, though Abraham does not know us and Israel does not recognize us. You, O LORD, are our Father, Our Redeemer from of old is Your name.” (Isaiah 63:16)

“But now, O LORD, You are our Father, We are the clay, and You our potter; And all of us are the work of Your hand.” (Isaiah 64:8)
 

Sabour

Well-Known Member
You sure about that?

For You are our Father, though Abraham does not know us and Israel does not recognize us. You, O LORD, are our Father, Our Redeemer from of old is Your name.” (Isaiah 63:16)

“But now, O LORD, You are our Father, We are the clay, and You our potter; And all of us are the work of Your hand.” (Isaiah 64:8)

I am a muslim friend.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I also think it is interesting that the early accounts in the Tanakh show a god that you can argue with, one that changes his mind, alternates between anthropomorphism and more subtle forms, etc. In other words, it isn't consistent.

For me, it seems enough that there is some fundamental, mysterious unity of all that exists, which unfolds across pretty vast scales of time and space. Is there a consciousness there? Maybe; we seem to be finding that consciousness is an emergent property found in all sorts of things, but the exploration of that sense of wonder and awe is maybe the best part of religion and science. I'm not much moved by the seemingly time bound divine decrees one finds in Leviticus or elsewhere, but I do find the mythical allusions found in those writings (i.e., the tabernacle as a microcosm created and sustained in a way that mirrors the Genesis account of creation) to be fascinating.
Yes, there are a great many "inconsistencies" in both the Jewish and Christian scriptures, which is why I have never been able to relate to the literalist school of thought. As far as the "consciousness" part is concerned, I'll simply avoid passing judgement on that since it's beyond my pay grade.
 
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