Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

outhouse said:

Yahweh was not used at that time .

Yahweh had not been used for a few hundred years before the NT was written

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ummm, thats quite incorrect.

The Fouad Papyri (Inventory Number 266), shows the divine name in the Greek text....its from 1BCE

A copy of the Greek Septuagint dated to the end of the first century C.E. shows the divine name as the Tetragrammaton.
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So the name was most certainly in use in Jesus day and in the century when the NT was written.

Pegg said:

ummm, thats quite incorrect.

The Fouad Papyri (Inventory Number 266), shows the divine name in the Greek text....its from 1BCE

A copy of the Greek Septuagint dated to the end of the first century C.E. shows the divine name as the Tetragrammaton.
.
So the name was most certainly in use in Jesus day and in the century when the NT was written.

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1 rare example, that follows a minor sect does not work for what all of Israel was doing or following.

Yahweh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By early post-biblical times, the name of Yahweh had ceased to be pronounced. In modern Judaism, it is replaced with the word Adonai, meaning Lord, and is understood to be God's proper name and to denote his mercy.[6] Many Christian Bibles follow the Jewish custom and replace it with "the LORD".

idav said:

Where do you think they got the adam and eve story? It didn't fall out of the sky.

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Please look into the latest research on Adam and Eve.

Adam And Eve Lived In Africa, But Probably Did Not Know Each Other: Scientists

The most recent common ancestor of men, called Adam, lived almost 120,000 years ago, and chances are that he did not meet or interact with Eve, who lived around 99,000 to 148,000 years ago, a new research indicates.

Adam And Eve Lived In Africa, But Probably Did Not Know Each Other: Scientists

The most pertinent question therefore would be; where did Jewish Bible or Torah get the story of Adam and Eve from?

Regards

I quoted following short chapters from Quran in this thread:

1. 1. Al-Fatihah
2. 114. Al-Nas
3. 113. Al-Falaq
4. 112. Al-Ikhlas
5. 111. Al-Lahab

Our Jewish (or non-Jewish) friends have not been able to quote or reference places of Torah where any of the verses of these Quranic chapters have been copied or plagiarized from.

We can therefore conclude with 100% certainty that 0% of verses of these chapters of Quran have been copied or plagiarized from Torah.

Do you agree here?

Regards

Sees said:

Ptobably the most famous one...

Muhammad/Allah 5:32 "Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors."

This is from the Talmud that Muhammad would learned having a sit down with a local Rabbi. Not from the Hebrew Scriptures but another Rabbi's commentary on the Scriptures. Muhammad/Allah did not know which sayings and teachings were scripture or not.

In other words this would be like Joseph Smith quoting St. Francis instead of the New Testament for Jesus' teachings.

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First of all, if you compare those stories mentioned in the Qur'an and the Bible there are significant differences. For example, in the story of Adam and Eve, Qur'an doesn't just blame Eve for eating the fruit - it blames them both equally but the Bible puts the blame on Eve. So it really doesn't add up that you copy the inaccurate and inconsistent material that doesn't make sense from one source(The Bible) and then present the consistent, accurate and reasonable one(in the Qur'an).

Also, in this regard, Dr. Jamal Badawi's statements are worth noting. He says: “It would be highly imaginary to say that through his occasional chats with Jews and Christians, while busy with his caravan, Muhammad, learned enough about either or both religions to formulate a new powerful and viable religion, a task that defies the collective efforts of scholars for centuries.” as is the case for Christianity and Judaism.

Furthermore, the above assertion raises a number of questions. Dr. Jamal Badawi puts forth the following six questions:

1. Why is it, that in spite of the abundance of historical material on the life of Prophet Muhammad, and in spite of the extensive research on his life for centuries by his critics, why was it not possible to discover the mysterious teacher who allegedly taught Muhammad, , all that he learned?
2. It is known that Muhammad, was opposed, ridiculed and persecuted for nearly thirteen years by his own contemporaries. Was it not possible for his enemies to prove to the masses that Prophet Muhammad's, claim of revelation was sheer fabrication? Was it not possible for them to reveal and name whom they alleged to be the human sources of his teachings? Even some of his adversaries who made this assertion changed their minds later on, and accused him, instead, of magic or of being possessed by evil.
3. Prophet Muhammad, , was raised among his people and every aspect of his life was exposed to them, especially by the openness that characterizes tribal life in the desert. How could his contemporaries, including many of his close relatives who knew him so well, believe in his truthfulness if they had any doubt that he was claiming credit for ideas taught to him by some other teachers, without bothering to give them credit?
4. What kind of teacher might have taught Muhammad, , a coherent and complete religion that changed the face of history? Why did he or they (if any) not speak against the alleged student who continued learning from them, while ignoring them and claiming some other Divine source for his teachings?
5. How could many Jews and Christians amongst his contemporaries become Muslims and believe in his truthfulness, if they knew that he was copying from their scriptures or learning from their priests or rabbis?
6. It is known that some of the Quranic revelations came to Prophet Muhammad, , in the presence of people. The Quran was revealed during the span of 23 years. If the Prophet, , had a teacher, where was he? How could he, , have hidden the teacher for so long? On the other hand, how could Prophet Muhammad, , who was constantly surrounded by followers, be able to make frequent secret visits to that mysterious teacher or teachers for 23 years without being ‘caught’ even once?

So it is quite clear that Qur'an could not have been copied from any earlier sources but rather divinely revealed.

paarsurrey said:

Please look into the latest research on Adam and Eve.

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You need to quit talking about things you know nothing about.


The article is talking about a hypothetical adam and eve and the evolution of a common ancestor, and hand has nothing to do with YOUR mythology

paarsurrey said:

0% of verses of these chapters of Quran have been copied or plagiarized from Torah.[/COLOR]

s

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Again your ignorance shines bright!

The fact the mythology is not word for word, does not mean it was not plagiarized. It just means it was not copied word for word, which no one is even stating

It was plagiarized.

loverOfTruth said:

So it is quite clear that Qur'an could not have been copied from any earlier sources but rather divinely revealed.

.

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WELL your wrong.


It is either

#1 plagiarized mythology

OR

#2 directly god inspired.


All evidence points to #1

NO evidence points to #2


Do you believe in a global flood???


Also is it not funny, that some dude goes in a cave to write a new bible in another language and keep it secret, while he changes it to meet this cultuires own needs, when everyone on the outside of the cave. already knew all about the bible as it was common knolwedge in that part of the world

outhouse said:

WELL your wrong.


It is either

#1 plagiarized mythology

OR

#2 directly god inspired.


All evidence points to #1

NO evidence points to #2

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You state some mumbo jumbo without giving an iota of evidence. All evidence points to point #2 as proven by the questions Dr. Jamal Badawi raised which I quoted (and to which you had no answers to) in addition to the evidences provided here : Is there any evidence for the Truth of Islam?.

outhouse said:

Do you believe in a global flood???

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Qur'an leaves it open with more probability of it being local than global...

"In this article, we compared the Biblical and Quranic versions of the story of Noah and the flood. While similar in some ways, the two stories are worlds apart in other ways. While the Biblical account of God sending a global flood without warning contradicts archaeological and historical facts, the Quranic account suffers from no such difficulties. This is because the latter does not clearly endorse the theory of a global flood, despite claims to the contrary, and instead only mentions the flood story in the context of Noah’s preaching to his own people. Therefore, the claim of a global flood is not tenable and we must instead endorse the belief that the flood was probably local, affecting only the sinful people of Noah’s nation. And Allah knows best!"
Taken from : The Biblical and Quranic Stories of Noah and the Flood: A Comparative Analysis

outhouse said:

Also is it not funny, that some dude goes in a cave to write a new bible in another language and keep it secret, while he changes it to meet this cultuires own needs, when everyone on the outside of the cave. already knew all about the bible as it was common knolwedge in that part of the world

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Some unfounded drivel

loverOfTruth said:

All evidence points to point #2 as proven by the questions Dr. Jamal Badawi

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Not credible or accepted outside the faithful.

the Quranic account suffers from no such difficulties

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:biglaugh:


have you even read your own mythology?

This is because the latter does not clearly endorse the theory of a global flood,

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So water so high that the boat goes to mnt Judi, is not a global flood that kills all unbeilevers?????

Stop it.

So you have to pervert your own text to have it make sense??

007.064YUSUFALI: But they rejected him, and We delivered him, and those with him, in the Ark: but We overwhelmed in the flood those who rejected Our signs. They were indeed a blind people!
PICKTHAL: But they denied him, so We saved him and those with him in the ship, and We drowned those who denied Our tokens. Lo! they were blind folk.


011.044YUSUFALI: Then the word went forth: "O earth! swallow up thy water, and O sky! Withhold (thy rain)!" and the water abated, and the matter was ended. The Ark rested on Mount Judi, and the word went forth: "Away with those who do wrong!"

011.037YUSUFALI: "But construct an Ark under Our eyes and Our inspiration, and address Me no (further) on behalf of those who are in sin: for they are about to be overwhelmed (in the Flood)."
PICKTHAL: Build the ship under Our eyes and by Our inspiration, and speak not unto Me on behalf of those who do wrong. Lo! they will be drowned.

Originally Posted by outhouse
Also is it not funny, that some dude goes in a cave to write a new bible in another language and keep it secret, while he changes it to meet this cultuires own needs, when everyone on the outside of the cave. already knew all about the bible as it was common knolwedge in that part of the world

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loverOfTruth said:

Some unfounded drivel

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He is used to such drivels and rhetoric.

Regards

paarsurrey said:

He is used to such drivels and rhetoric.

Regards

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We know you are guided with hatred.

We know you hate education and knowledge, as it exposes the faults and plagiarized mythology in your accounts.

outhouse said:

Not credible or accepted outside the faithful.




:biglaugh:


have you even read your own mythology?






So water so high that the boat goes to mnt Judi, is not a global flood that kills all unbeilevers?????

Stop it.

So you have to pervert your own text to have it make sense??

007.064YUSUFALI: But they rejected him, and We delivered him, and those with him, in the Ark: but We overwhelmed in the flood those who rejected Our signs. They were indeed a blind people!
PICKTHAL: But they denied him, so We saved him and those with him in the ship, and We drowned those who denied Our tokens. Lo! they were blind folk.


011.044YUSUFALI: Then the word went forth: "O earth! swallow up thy water, and O sky! Withhold (thy rain)!" and the water abated, and the matter was ended. The Ark rested on Mount Judi, and the word went forth: "Away with those who do wrong!"

011.037YUSUFALI: "But construct an Ark under Our eyes and Our inspiration, and address Me no (further) on behalf of those who are in sin: for they are about to be overwhelmed (in the Flood)."
PICKTHAL: Build the ship under Our eyes and by Our inspiration, and speak not unto Me on behalf of those who do wrong. Lo! they will be drowned.

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You have no idea as to what you are talking about. I know my scripture very well ... don't try to teach me. You jumped to soon without reading the whole thing....

None of those verses talk about everyone else on earth.

Only the disbelievers in the land, meaning the area in which he lived. In fact, the context of the verse shows that he was referring to his own people:

“Noah said: "O my Lord! They have disobeyed me, but they follow (men) whose wealth and children give them no increase but only Loss.”[Al Qur'an 71:21]

How could Nuh (peace be upon him) have been referring to people in other parts of the world whom he had never met and was never sent to? How could they have “disobeyed” him if they had not even heard him preaching? Clearly, his prayer to Allah (swt) was concerning his own people, and had nothing to do with the rest of the world.

p.s: And still couldn't come up with answer to any of those logical questions...just 'not accepted' is not evidence.

loverOfTruth said:

You have no idea as to what you are talking about. I know my scripture very well ... don't try to teach me. You jumped to soon without reading the whole thing....

None of those verses talk about everyone else on earth.

Only the disbelievers in the land, meaning the area in which he lived. In fact, the context of the verse shows that he was referring to his own people:

“Noah said: "O my Lord! They have disobeyed me, but they follow (men) whose wealth and children give them no increase but only Loss.”[Al Qur'an 71:21]

How could Nuh (peace be upon him) have been referring to people in other parts of the world whom he had never met and was never sent to? How could they have “disobeyed” him if they had not even heard him preaching? Clearly, his prayer to Allah (swt) was concerning his own people, and had nothing to do with the rest of the world.

p.s: And still couldn't come up with answer to any of those logical questions...just 'not accepted' is not evidence.

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Ok then teach me.

Where did this flood take place?

When did this flood take place?

How large was it?


Boat ended up on mnt Judi, where is this and how high up is it?

Does your silence admit this is mythology, and only man inspired the plagiarization of previous beliefs????????????

outhouse said:

Ok then teach me.

Where did this flood take place?

When did this flood take place?

How large was it?


Boat ended up on mnt Judi, where is this and how high up is it?

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Firstly, ancient historical traditions, archaeological discoveries and geological data provide evidence that a great flood took place at some period in the distant past in the Tigris-Euphrates region. See here : Yes, Noah's Flood May Have Happened, But Not Over the Whole Earth | NCSE

"Mount Judi is situated to the north-east of the Island of Ibn 'Umar in Kurdistan. According to the Bible, the Ark's resting place was Ararat, which is the name of a particular mountain as well as of a whole range of mountains in Armenia. Ararat, in the sense of a mountain range, extends from the Armenian plateau to southern Kurdistan. The mount called Judi is part of this range and is known even today by the same name. In ancient historical accounts, Mount Judi is mentioned as the place where the Ark rested. Around 250 B.C., a Babylonian priest, Berasus, wrote a history of his country based on Chaldean traditions. He mentions Judi as the resting-place of Noah's Ark. The history written by Abydenus, a disciple of Aristotle, also corroborates this. Abydenus further remarks that many people in Mesopotamia possessed pieces of the Ark which they used as a charm. They ground those pieces in water and gave the preparation to the sick so as to cure them of their ailments." - from : Noah's Ark


Taken from Charles Berlitz, The Lost Ship of Noah, we find the following:
"Mount Judi, Spelled Cudi-Dagh in Turkish means "highest" or "the heights" in Arabic and for this reason a number of people in Eastern Turkey, including some Islamic scholars, think Al Judi refers to Ararat. But Cudi-Dagh is actually located south of Lake Van, rising to a height of 7700 feet. The local tribesmen there maintain that the Ark drifted to a high point in the Cudi mountain chain and that the remains of it are still on the top of Cudi-Dagh, the highest mountain in the area. ...." - from : Look up, your redemption is at hand: Mount Ararat or Mount Judi?

Should be enough lessons for now

p.s: And still avoiding those logical questions while diverting the topic to Noah's Ark issue ...

loverOfTruth said:

Should be enough lessons for now

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Your simply grasping at straws to rationalize your mythology.

You also avoided directly answering my questions, with a bunch of links that do not tie in these events to your books

NO. Its my turn to teach.

The Euphrates facually flooded in 2900 BC, soon after mythology started that a king Ziusudra went down the flooded river on a barge loaded with livestock. he is found on the kings list, and may have existed. he landed next to a hill and made an animal sacrifice.

Soon after we have Akkadian mythological accounts of the river flood, a little differnet.

Soon after we have Mesopotamian accounts, such as Gilgamesh who turned this mythology into a sea deluge.

Long time after we have the israelites plagiarized version that turns this mythology into a global deluge, with noah.

Long time after we have the islamic mythology plagiarized from previous versions.

Noah in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Building of the Ark[edit]


Noah's ark and the deluge from Zubdat-al Tawarikh


One day, Noah received a revelation from God, in which he was told that no one would believe the message now aside from those who have already submitted to God.[17] Noah's frustration at the defiance of his people led him to ask God to not leave even one sinner upon earth.[2] Thereupon, God decreed that a terrible flood would cover the whole earth and He ordered Noah to build an Ark which would save him and the believers from this dreadful calamity.[

loverOfTruth said:

But Cudi-Dagh is actually located south of Lake Van, rising to a height of 7700 feet

.

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makes it a global flood by your own link

outhouse said:

makes it a global flood by your own link

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No it doesn't ... that link just identifies the location ... talks nothing about global or local

outhouse said:

Your simply grasping at straws to rationalize your mythology.

You also avoided directly answering my questions, with a bunch of links that do not tie in these events to your books

NO. Its my turn to teach.

The Euphrates facually flooded in 2900 BC, soon after mythology started that a king Ziusudra went down the flooded river on a barge loaded with livestock. he is found on the kings list, and may have existed. he landed next to a hill and made an animal sacrifice.

Soon after we have Akkadian mythological accounts of the river flood, a little differnet.

Soon after we have Mesopotamian accounts, such as Gilgamesh who turned this mythology into a sea deluge.

Long time after we have the israelites plagiarized version that turns this mythology into a global deluge, with noah.

Long time after we have the islamic mythology plagiarized from previous versions.

Noah in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Building of the Ark[edit]


Noah's ark and the deluge from Zubdat-al Tawarikh


One day, Noah received a revelation from God, in which he was told that no one would believe the message now aside from those who have already submitted to God.[17] Noah's frustration at the defiance of his people led him to ask God to not leave even one sinner upon earth.[2] Thereupon, God decreed that a terrible flood would cover the whole earth and He ordered Noah to build an Ark which would save him and the believers from this dreadful calamity.[

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Wow...you just came up with bunch of myths to counter the scientific explanation in the ncse link that proves the Quranic version and still silent on the answers to the logical questions.... nice :run:

No point wasting anymore time with your game play without any substance or evidence ...