Theists: If You Knew You Were Going to Hell

NobodyYouKnow · Nov 16, 2013

Me Myself said:
I think he is talking about an eternal hell,

I wouldnt imagine Shiva holding such a grudge. He may be grumpy, but he also forgives!

I am also talking about eternal hell (which according to both Christians and Vaishnavas alike, I seem destined to be headed towards if I don't give up my 'evil ways').

I was just saying if our immortal soul is beyond the reaches of material cause/effect and our senses, and that which we use to experience our surroundings dies with us when we do, what experiences this 'eternal torment' in hell?

Does the Soul have ganglia? Sensory neurones? a brain even?

The Bhagavad Gita says it doesn't, so I am going with that.

Shiva forgives, but I have also explained how He does.

It's like the Christian saying 'God helps those who help themselves'. If you are not 'helping yourself' by becoming a better person, God just goes like this: :shrug:

....then He casts you aside.

Nyingjé Tso · Nov 16, 2013

The Sum of Awe said:
Thanks the reply, but whenever I see people saying there's going to be a lot of cool people down there and that means it wont be so bad, I'm actually not understanding of how they could imagine any sort of penance from a place build off of God's hatred to punish people for whatever reason.

If I believed in Hell, I'd think that the sociable people would be locked into solitary and the socially afraid people would be in a room full of people.

*shrug*

I understand what you say. But I don't believe in hell so... Can't really go very far on this.

Me Myself · Nov 16, 2013

NobodyYouKnow said:
I am also talking about eternal hell (which according to both Christians and Vaishnavas alike, I seem destined to be headed towards if I don't give up my 'evil ways').

I was just saying if our immortal soul is beyond the reaches of material cause/effect and our senses, and that which we use to experience our surroundings dies with us when we do, what experiences this 'eternal torment' in hell?

Does the Soul have ganglia? Sensory neurones? a brain even?

The Bhagavad Gita says it doesn't, so I am going with that.

Shiva forgives, but I have also explained how He does.

It's like the Christian saying 'God helps those who help themselves'. If you are not 'helping yourself' by becoming a better person, God just goes like this:

....then He casts you aside.

I am not sure ñi follow.

Do yu believe in eternal hell?

In any case, the circumstance if I understand it correctly is your soul will feel eternal suffering of the most high kind for ever.

At least if he is going by the christian concept of hell.

NobodyYouKnow · Nov 17, 2013

Me Myself said:
I am not sure ñi follow.

Do yu believe in eternal hell?

In any case, the circumstance if I understand it correctly is your soul will feel eternal suffering of the most high kind for ever.

At least if he is going by the christian concept of hell.

No, I do not believe in eternal hell/damnation for all the reasons I just stated.

Like JayaBholenath, I also cannot say too much.

Christians believe the Soul has a corporeal form and Hindus do not and that's about the size of it.

Mycroft · Nov 17, 2013

The Sum of Awe said:
Even if you don't believe in hell, let's hypothetically say you were correct theologically (unless you're an atheist, hence I directed this towards theists, but atheists are welcome if they're willing to pretend to believe in God for this scenario), but something came up, maybe a mystical experience or a talking with God, that made you 100% sure that you're going to suffer eternally after death, and it's God's or the gods' choice.

Would you still love God(s)? And if you worship your God(s) currently, would you continue to do so after finding out this new information?

Just out of curiosity.

Based on your scenario, I wouldn't have loved god(s) in the first place, quite the reverse in fact. And my going to hell would not change that.

Erebus · Nov 17, 2013

Quintessence said:
I must be pretty deranged, then.

Yup. I worship a deity that, as judged by human standards, is malevolent, sadistic, and violent. If I ended up in their "special place" they would absolutely torture me. I would expect nothing less. The gods are what they are, and I honor them regardless of whether or not their nature is judged adversarial to human needs and wants. There is beauty and wisdom and power in all things, not merely the things humans happen to find pleasant.

The difference here is that you're a polytheist and don't necessarily believe you'll end up in that god's hell eternally. I myself honor gods associated with disease, war, death and hate. To my mind though there's a huge gulf between honoring gods that represent negative parts of life and worshipping a god with the absolute certainty that you'll be eternally tortured by them.

Of course I'm perhaps being a bit presumptuous about your beliefs here, so by all means correct me if I'm wrong.

Philomath · Nov 17, 2013

The Sum of Awe said:
Even if you don't believe in hell, let's hypothetically say you were correct theologically (unless you're an atheist, hence I directed this towards theists, but atheists are welcome if they're willing to pretend to believe in God for this scenario), but something came up, maybe a mystical experience or a talking with God, that made you 100% sure that you're going to suffer eternally after death, and it's God's or the gods' choice.

Would you still love God(s)? And if you worship your God(s) currently, would you continue to do so after finding out this new information?

Just out of curiosity.

Nope. I'd probably turn into a Lucifer like figure and rebel against that God.

Penumbra · Nov 17, 2013

Shermana said:
What if it's a temporary stay in Hell instead of Eternal?

Like Auschwitz?

Sha'irullah · Nov 17, 2013

Well you must describe which god is sending us to hell. The Christian or Islamic god I would not fear as they have limited power and are highly imperfect as their texts describe them as such.

They have all humans faults and lack omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence. Others gods are far more powerful and I would worry about these gods and not the god's which have hell associated with them.

Penumbra · Nov 17, 2013

NobodyYouKnow said:
It's like the Christian saying 'God helps those who help themselves'. If you are not 'helping yourself' by becoming a better person, God just goes like this:

....then He casts you aside.

Fortunately that's not how compassionate people in the real world deal with people that have mental illness, physical illness, and so forth.

People that are able and willing to help themselves don't require all that much help, and the people that don't see a way to help themselves or that have lost hope that they can be helped, are the ones that need help the most.

NobodyYouKnow · Nov 18, 2013

Penumbra said:
Fortunately that's not how compassionate people in the real world deal with people that have mental illness, physical illness, and so forth.

People that are able and willing to help themselves don't require all that much help, and the people that don't see a way to help themselves or that have lost hope that they can be helped, are the ones that need help the most.

When that was said, it was not referring to 'helping yourself' in the material sense, by being selfish, greedy and/or lacking compassion towards others.

It is meant in the spiritual sense, that God puts in according to what you put in.

If one prays to God with a heart full of desire, greed, lust and other things, God won't help much. It's only when one purifies themselves and does certain works according to their faith/belief, will God look favourably upon them.

This was my intention and meaning. I humbly apologise for any misunderstanding.

nazz · Nov 18, 2013

The Sum of Awe said:
Even if you don't believe in hell, let's hypothetically say you were correct theologically (unless you're an atheist, hence I directed this towards theists, but atheists are welcome if they're willing to pretend to believe in God for this scenario), but something came up, maybe a mystical experience or a talking with God, that made you 100% sure that you're going to suffer eternally after death, and it's God's or the gods' choice.

Would you still love God(s)? And if you worship your God(s) currently, would you continue to do so after finding out this new information?

Just out of curiosity.

I would continue to love and worship the God that sends no one to hell and trust in his protection against any deity that would try.

Iti oj · Nov 18, 2013

Even if I knew I was going to heaven I would be against a God who sent any one to hell.

Thana · Nov 18, 2013

The Sum of Awe said:
Even if you don't believe in hell, let's hypothetically say you were correct theologically (unless you're an atheist, hence I directed this towards theists, but atheists are welcome if they're willing to pretend to believe in God for this scenario), but something came up, maybe a mystical experience or a talking with God, that made you 100% sure that you're going to suffer eternally after death, and it's God's or the gods' choice.

Would you still love God(s)? And if you worship your God(s) currently, would you continue to do so after finding out this new information?

Just out of curiosity.

I can't even begin to answer this impossible hypothetical question.
To me, It's like asking if I was incapable of thought, Would I think about cookies?

I Pass :run:

The Sum of Awe · Nov 18, 2013

Thana said:
I can't even begin to answer this impossible hypothetical question.
To me, It's like asking if I was incapable of thought, Would I think about cookies?

I Pass :run:

Why is that? A hypothetical question isn't meaningless just because it certainly wont happen or is unlikely, it becomes meaningless when it stops making sense or if it gets too hypothetical to the point it narrows your options down too low for the interest to be settled in.

In this situation I've described in the OP, I don't see how it is strictly limiting your options (because logically there would be only 3 answers since the beginning - Still love God, are neutral towards God, or now against God.

It is not being unrealistic, so to speak, because you can logically imagine such a situation, it makes sense.

Thana · Nov 18, 2013

The Sum of Awe said:
Why is that? A hypothetical question isn't meaningless just because it certainly wont happen or is unlikely, it becomes meaningless when it stops making sense or if it gets too hypothetical to the point it narrows your options down too low for the interest to be settled in.

In this situation I've described in the OP, I don't see how it is strictly limiting your options (because logically there would be only 3 answers since the beginning - Still love God, are neutral towards God, or now against God.

It is not being unrealistic, so to speak, because you can logically imagine such a situation, it makes sense.

Because the answer, Regardless of what it is, Is meaningless.
It would change nothing.

Which kind of makes the question meaningless, Since whatever you choose will change nothing.

If you love God or Hate God or are neutral towards God, It wouldn't matter.

The question just seems like you're trying to feel out people who'd say, I'd still love God, And then call them crazy.

But if that's not the case, Then I apologize.

The Sum of Awe · Nov 18, 2013

Thana said:
Because the answer, Regardless of what it is, Is meaningless.
It would change nothing.

Which kind of makes the question meaningless, Since whatever you choose will change nothing.

If you love God or Hate God or are neutral towards God, It wouldn't matter.

The question just seems like you're trying to feel out people who'd say, I'd still love God, And then call them crazy.

But if that's not the case, Then I apologize.

Not the case at all, in fact just the opposite - I'm just curious of how far certain people place their God's importance.

While it will not change a thing, a lot of questions wont change a thing, especially those out of common interest such as this one.

underthesun · Nov 18, 2013

Personally, I'm a theist but not a believer in the whole Heaven and Hell thing, so this question isn't something I'd normally be able to answer... but I'm going to pretend for a moment that I'm a devout follower of one of the Abrahamic faiths.

If I were one hundred percent sure that I'd be suffering for eternity by will of this God, I'm pretty darn confident that I would not only not love this god anymore, but I'd actually despise this God. I mean, I don't think I've done anything in my life worthy of eternal suffering (not that I'm sure anyone in the world has, actually), so I'd be pretty darn angry if I was going to be sentenced to eternal damnation. Actually, I'd probably be thrilled to not have to share the room with this God for the rest of eternity, but obviously I wouldn't still be happy.

I don't see how anyone could still love someone who has chosen to make you suffer eternally... unless he/she's some kind of extreme masochist or something.

NobodyYouKnow · Nov 18, 2013

underthesun said:
Personally, I'm a theist but not a believer in the whole Heaven and Hell thing, so this question isn't something I'd normally be able to answer... but I'm going to pretend for a moment that I'm a devout follower of one of the Abrahamic faiths.

If I were one hundred percent sure that I'd be suffering for eternity by will of this God, I'm pretty darn confident that I would not only not love this god anymore, but I'd actually despise this God. I mean, I don't think I've done anything in my life worthy of eternal suffering (not that I'm sure anyone in the world has, actually), so I'd be pretty darn angry if I was going to be sentenced to eternal damnation. Actually, I'd probably be thrilled to not have to share the room with this God for the rest of eternity, but obviously I wouldn't still be happy.

I don't see how anyone could still love someone who has chosen to make you suffer eternally... unless he/she's some kind of extreme masochist or something.

This is the difference between conditional and unconditional love.

No matter what happens, I will still love Him.

Love is blind....love of God is blind, deaf, and dumb.

If I didn't feel this way, I would be resenting God for every little mishap in my life and wind-up a very bitter heathen.

If one accepts God into their life, there's no 'half-measures'. It's a 'take it or leave it' thing...well, it is for me.

Saying 'I love God but only if...' is conditional.

Life on Earth can be a 'hell' or a 'heaven' and that's what we make it - eternity is no different (presuming Hell exists).

When Satan/Yama/Big Evil Dude sees that you are laughing on the spit, he'll say 'off to heaven with ya'. lol

Akivah · Nov 19, 2013

The Sum of Awe said:
Even if you don't believe in hell, ... but something came up, maybe a mystical experience or a talking with God, that made you 100% sure that you're going to suffer eternally after death, and it's God's or the gods' choice.

Would you still love God(s)? And if you worship your God(s) currently, would you continue to do so after finding out this new information?

It would definitely turn my personal philosophy upside down. I'd be angry and would question G-d, why He didn't mention it before.

Theists: If You Knew You Were Going to Hell

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