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calling all chaots

Iti oj

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
how many here live or practice chaos magic or discordian?
as a full fledged chaot i would define chaos magic minimally as such:

belief is a tool
suspension of disbelief
paradigm shifting


these terms are up for the chaot or chaos practitioner to define. these three things are the only 3 prerequisites i see. many seem to use or borrow from chaos magic but most do not seem to live chaos magic. i have found the lhp to be the most understanding of chaots and their ways.

i consider my self a chaot because i do not only practice chaos magic but when i say i live magic i live chaos magic. their is more i could say on chaos but it matters not

i can not speak for discordians since i am not one and it has little besides these three things in common with my path perhaps my views on the primal chaos. but i might have stolen that using the three above mentioned tools.

perhaps a discordian is about?

feel free to ask me questions from my point of view as a chaot.

i tend to call myself a chaos shaman to denote my use of nature oriented influences
 
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Gjallarhorn

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
Iti oj said:
I can see why. Some time I try to remove the word magic too.
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All this magic stuff needs new terminology because it's not what people are being told it is at all. It's not all this wearying symbolic misdirection that's being dragged up from the Victorian Age, when no-one was allowed to talk plainly and everything was in coy poetic code. The world's at a crisis point and it's time to stop ************ around with Qabalah and Thelema and Chaos and Information and all the rest of the metaphoric smoke and mirrors designed to make the rubes think magicians are "special" people with special powers. It's not like that. Everyone does magic all the time in different ways. "Life" plus "significance" = magic.
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- Grant Morrison
 
Quintessence

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
The smoke, mirrors, and poeticism can be fun, though. It gets in the way sometimes, but it can also be fun. :D
 
Sylvan

Sylvan

Unrepentant goofer duster
You asked me to comment here. Hope this is what you had in mind.

Iti oj said:
belief is a tool
Click to expand...

This is I consider one of the heaviest inspirational thrusts of the chaos tradition, as it is. That beliefs don't have to be something we have or (through a post-modern academic lens) are given or have somehow had inflicted upon us, but can be something that we use decide to use and change consciously. Instead of being a slave to their own individual hangups and dead ends, we explore beliefs as an exercise in drugless consciousness alteration.

Of course these kind of exercises can be more dangerous than drugs, if given to the wrong hands/mind or under the supervision of the wrong person. We can see in the history of personality cults an endless procession of people having their minds systematically broken and mended to some twisted end through the use of these techniques. This is why I am of the belief that a balanced study of chaos magic and the effect of magic generally includes an in-depth look at situations like abusive gurus/high priestesses, Jonestown, and small group interaction generally. Particularly if you are planning on working with others.

Iti oj said:
suspension of disbelief
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This is what I am talking about with "fake it till you make it". In my years of practice, this is why I have tended to use the chaos magic methodology with more traditional imagery/godforms. I have such a deeply ingrained bs detector (brilliantly identified by Pete Carroll as the psychic censor) that in order to suspend that disbelief enough to get real results I think I need to be able to take whatever I am working with seriously. So while I am really interested in Pokeman as magical metaphors, and actually had this funny obsession with the world of the cartoon show for a while ((are their real animals, or just pokeman?? and if just pokeman what is the meat on a stick they keep eating..? and if that is pokemon meat, and I threw a pokeball at it could I capture it and eat it later... still just as hot and delicious?)))... I couldn't take myself seriously using them and animating them as magical allies. Maybe for some reason I just need my smoke and mirrors to have a funky old smell and dingy yet nostalgic patina.

This is despite over the years summoning things like oh.. dragons and taking myself perfectly seriously. Even though I had a tiny piece of my mind which probably knew that whatever Gaelic chant my high priestesses high priestess probably PULLED OUT OF HER *** likely wasn't whatever it was cracked up to be.. it FELT ancient and I knew that people like me probably have been talking to things like dragons for a long time now so guess what... a 'dragon' showed up. I just don't think I could do that with a Pokeman.. it might be there.. but I would be making it be there... in fact in a way it would largely be 'me'.. whereas I am pretty certain the dragon showed up... and was not made by me or whatever. I have made entities, and it feels way different.

Iti oj said:
paradigm shifting
Click to expand...

What exactly does paradigm shifting mean to you? I don't blend my traditions. I work in maybe three separate ones now... the first being my coven witchcraft altered by years of solo chaos influenced practice and the second two being initiatory traditions which you can guess at reading my posts, etc. I practice them alongside but not simultaneously with each other. Plus there is the other mind which is the rational skeptic who has conceded that this psychosis of "I am a magical practitioner" is a particularly entertaining one. Holding these paradigms simultaneously without dissonance is another discipline I believe chaos method has brought to the table.

Iti oj said:
a chaos shaman to denote my use of nature oriented influences
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Have you read the book Seidways by Jan Fries? It changed my life.

Also check out "Shamans" by Roland Hutton so you can come to your senses and never call yourself a 'shaman' again.
Also I should point out one could argue all of these characteristics are present all along, just undercover.
 
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Iti oj

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
Sylvan said:
You asked me to comment here. Hope this is what you had in mind.



This is I consider one of the heaviest inspirational thrusts of the chaos tradition, as it is. That beliefs don't have to be something we have or (through a post-modern academic lens) are given or have somehow had inflicted upon us, but can be something that we use decide to use and change consciously. Instead of being a slave to their own individual hangups and dead ends, we explore beliefs as an exercise in drugless consciousness alteration.













Have you read the book Seidways by Jan Fries? It changed my life.

Also check out "Shamans" by Roland Hutton so you can come to your senses and never call yourself a 'shaman' again.
Also I should point out one could argue all of these characteristics are present all along, just undercover.
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agreed. this was one of my most profound discoveries. But the most profound thing of all was i found i was already doing this .
No but ill check it out
Of course these kind of exercises can be more dangerous than drugs, if given to the wrong hands/mind or under the supervision of the wrong person. We can see in the history of personality cults an endless procession of people having their minds systematically broken and mended to some twisted end through the use of these techniques. This is why I am of the belief that a balanced study of chaos magic and the effect of magic generally includes an in-depth look at situations like abusive gurus/high priestesses, Jonestown, and small group interaction generally. Particularly if you are planning on working with others.
]
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I want to start a religion not a cult so no worries =D
but i can see your concern about the lack of holding values. I would say those kind of people will do evil no matter their path. But i think if i were to teach a class on chaos magic i would include what you suggested and warn against it for practical reasons. Though i personal hold a much higher moral then that.

This is what I am talking about with "fake it till you make it". In my years of practice, this is why I have tended to use the chaos magic methodology with more traditional imagery/godforms. I have such a deeply ingrained bs detector (brilliantly identified by Pete Carroll as the psychic censor) that in order to suspend that disbelief enough to get real results I think I need to be able to take whatever I am working with seriously. So while I am really interested in Pokeman as magical metaphors, and actually had this funny obsession with the world of the cartoon show for a while ((are their real animals, or just pokeman?? and if just pokeman what is the meat on a stick they keep eating..? and if that is pokemon meat, and I threw a pokeball at it could I capture it and eat it later... still just as hot and delicious?)))... I couldn't take myself seriously using them and animating them as magical allies. Maybe for some reason I just need my smoke and mirrors to have a funky old smell and dingy yet nostalgic patina.
Click to expand...
well bro way to ruin pokemon wtf. haha just kidding. i wonder what Nintendos official response to that would be I find a Pokemon easier to imagine and more relevant to my fantasies the gods and creatures of cultures past. I think its all fake. so whats the difference. I focus on things i enjoy and my practice i a joyous one.

This is despite over the years summoning things like oh.. dragons and taking myself perfectly seriously. Even though I had a tiny piece of my mind which probably knew that whatever Gaelic chant my high priestesses high priestess probably PULLED OUT OF HER *** likely wasn't whatever it was cracked up to be.. it FELT ancient and I knew that people like me probably have been talking to things like dragons for a long time now so guess what... a 'dragon' showed up. I just don't think I could do that with a Pokeman.. it might be there.. but I would be making it be there... in fact in a way it would largely be 'me'.. whereas I am pretty certain the dragon showed up... and was not made by me or whatever. I have made entities, and it feels way different.
Click to expand...
I had already taking myself to kento jhoto sinnho etc in my day dreams and fantasies and the poketeam to go with it. So when it came time for magic it came natural. i had to force the fey and gods of the Celtic tradition.
what works works.

What exactly does paradigm shifting mean to you? I don't blend my traditions. I work in maybe three separate ones now... the first being my coven witchcraft altered by years of solo chaos influenced practice and the second two being initiatory traditions which you can guess at reading my posts, etc. I practice them alongside but not simultaneously with each other. Plus there is the other mind which is the rational skeptic who has conceded that this psychosis of "I am a magical practitioner" is a particularly entertaining one. Holding these paradigms simultaneously without dissonance is another discipline I believe chaos method has brought to the table.
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I have separate ones, blended ones, self created ones, and through away ones, i sorta have this template i use and have been know to make them on the fly.
often i incorporate a persons paradigm im working with talking with interacting with into mine it helps with communication and understanding. tends to increase compassion etc I would say i run three main ones at the time. animist magician, skeptic empiricist, and an imaginary one. i found this one came essayist my mind was always going int multiple directions at once
 
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Sylvan

Sylvan

Unrepentant goofer duster
I wrote this long response to a PM and it basically addresses a lot of this. As far as your Pokemon thing as I said more power to you. But in my opinion they are servitors, which have their own thing going on and are very connected to you. I don't know maybe due to the effect of so many children thinking about them elemental spirits might choose to inhabit them and create a structure there. Weirder things have happened. And any group of people is susceptible to cultlike tendencies, don't fool yourself. ;)

"
Barrackubus said:
Do you think chaos magick and sorcery are the same thing?

I base this theory upon the definition of sorcery being, causing change or doing magick without material base and/or ritual. I don't know as a sorcerer any other definitive definitions for the practice.
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No. I think humans have probably been developing sorcery as an evolutionary mechanism long before we developed language. Or perhaps simultaneously with it. It had its own ways of defining itself long before Crowley or the distant ancestor of the horse he rode in on.

Chaos magic, I would say, began as a phenomenon related to a particular place, time, and set of actors. I was actually around for certain rituals done by IOT in America toward the end of that time. Since dumbed-down interpretations of this material on the internet became widespread it has become part of a toolkit of popular self-directed methodologies, since it is even more adaptable to the individuals whims than Scott Cunningham-style new age wicca.

This is unfortunate, as I have found my most productive development to be under the tutelage of teachers who force you to adapt to their ways. You can go your own way after you learn a few well, and even then I find I work the traditions in themselves separately. The influence of chaos method is in the attitude. This is why there is no dissonance in holding each of these traditions and the unique associated paradigms, energies, spirits, and states of consciousness as separate 'modes' in which to 'work'.

I don't really think magic is about the Holy Guardian Angel or any of this. We have many souls, and the perceived unity of consciousness is the ultimate 'slight of mind'. We also exist in a universe populated by intelligences perceivable (not by all by some) and consistent (certainly NOT by all by SOME VERY FEW) who have proved to my personal satisfaction their independent existence, as much as any perception generated by my sober physical senses possibly could. I believe these beings co-evolved with us, perhaps originally in a parasitic fashion.. or maybe they just learned to do that over time. As far as these beings ultimate nature or the the 'truth' behind some of their cosmological claims... :shrug:

I have no idea. And to be honest I couldn't really care less. Because the chaos thing taught me to stop sweating the BS and pay attention to what works. I think this attitude was very much present in historical sorcery but had been forgotten. The chaos movement came to shake the magical community, still stuck in Golden Dawn derived methodologies, of this ontological ensnarement."
 
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Azakel

Azakel

Liebe ist für alle da
I'm here. Though I've been gone for quite a while, and out of practice.... If one of this 'Nature' can every truly been out of practice..lol. And now that I have a computer and internet and not just a phone to do this on I think it's time to come back.
Mmm, Khaos Magick.... ^_^

^ just to be different.
 
Iti oj

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
Azakel said:
I'm here. Though I've been gone for quite a while, and out of practice.... If one of this 'Nature' can every truly been out of practice..lol. And now that I have a computer and internet and not just a phone to do this on I think it's time to come back.
Mmm, Khaos Magick.... ^_^

^ just to be different.
Click to expand...

Hail brother.
 
BSM1

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Respectfully can one of you explain "chaos magic" and what a choate believes so it would make sense to someone completely in the dark (no pun intended).
 
Iti oj

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
Y
BSM1 said:
Respectfully can one of you explain "chaos magic" and what a choate believes so it would make sense to someone completely in the dark (no pun intended).
Click to expand...

Reread the op. And ill post more after work.

And belief is a tool.
 
Iti oj

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
You know the pick and mix religions and spiritual paths a chaote is kinda like that for magic." Nothing is true everything is permited."
 
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