Brahman knowing itself

Hi,

People often say: creation means Brahman trying to know itself. What does it mean, exactly?

Thanks,
Chisti

The entire creation is due to Parabrahman only who is like the hidden Father. Parabrahman is the cause of any work. When the Brahman desired to create, it is the Parabrahman hidden in Brahman desired so. Brahman means the pure awareness in which the Parabrahman is hidden. When we say that Parabrahman desired to create, we will immediately assume that Parabrahman must be awareness. It is the logic of the nature that whichever desires, must be awareness. But Parabrahman is beyond this logic, and therefore Parabrahman desires and at the same time He need not be awareness. Veda says that Parabrahman runs without feet and catches without hands (Apani Pado Javano). This means that ParaBrahman does every thing but cannot be detected through its action. By this, you will avoid indicating the Parabrahman by the word ‘awareness’. Thus Parabrahman is the cause of every work but at the same time, it gives fame to the items of its creation.

Chisti said:

Hi,

People often say: creation means Brahman trying to know itself. What does it mean, exactly?

Thanks,
Chisti

Click to expand...

I will put what it is you heard in a different light and you may see how it relates.

Creation is that of the creator. The universe, all that is, this creation, has been unfolding, evolving if you will since the first cause. Now creation is to a point where it is able to look back through the eyes of those that realize the Creator, us the creation of the Creator, now looking back on creation and with the conscious ability to realize the Creator. Thus, we are the senses, the mind, created, and now as part of the whole of creation we come to know the Creator, Brahman and through creation now the Creator is able to know and realize ItSelf.

It's a metaphor, or perhaps an answer to a koan. It doesn't make sense if you try to analyze it or think rationally about it.
It's a concession to those who ask for an explanation for the unexplainable.

It means the creation and the creator are the same and not different. The creator continues to experience the creation regardless. So Brahman (Creator) experiences and knows Brahman (creation) eternally.

The reason this is difficult to grasp is that the human mind is under the mayaic impression that creation exists independently of the creator.

Chisti said:

Hi,

People often say: creation means Brahman trying to know itself. What does it mean, exactly?

Thanks,
Chisti

Click to expand...

I dont know if I agree with that. Brahman is always full of self-knowledge. It doesnt need to create anything to "know" itself. Really, this creation can pull attention away from Brahman leading to a state of ignorance. Pure Consciousness is Consciousness that is absorbed in itself. When Sat and Chit come together, bliss or Ananda is experianced. What this means is, when Awareness (Chit) becomes aware of its own Being (Sat), bliss is felt (Ananda). But when the world comes into creation, Chit becomes unaware of Sat and is aware of the World, leading to an ignorance of reality.

Friend Shiva,
The response offered is correct however one needs to understand as to what does it mean: CHIT becoming AWARE of SAT [being]??? what is the phenomenon???
There should be no doubt in any human minds about CONSCIOUSNESS, what IT IS!
Consciousness has been given a label for an understanding and the labels differ according to the understanding in any particular culture and so Consciousness is found to be referred to as God/Brahman/Tao/ etc. when we understand that why use any labels?? that is what Gautama was trying to point towards.
Next part is that since everything is consciousness then surely the body that is also human [which is also the SELF] is also consciousness but then why is it that the eyes of the body sees different bodies??
The body or forms or even those that do not have forms are nothing but VIBRATIONS and where does this vibration come from??
From Consciousness and the vibration creates a sound and since this vibration is not created by anyone it is labeled the *Soundless Sound* or *One hand clap* which is OM or AUM.
This vibration transcends all the three stages of creation, preservation and destruction.
This understanding /awareness of that consciousness which is the human body [vibration] too realizes that it is merely a part of the consciousness and its vibration; it is referred to as Brahman knowing itself.
Love & rgds

Chisti said:

Hi,

People often say: creation means Brahman trying to know itself. What does it mean, exactly?

Thanks,
Chisti

Click to expand...

It means what you think it means,
what other meaning can there be?

Chisti said:

Hi,

People often say: creation means Brahman trying to know itself. What does it mean, exactly?

Thanks,
Chisti

Click to expand...

This refers to the fact that Krishna, being God and the source of Brahman ---as it, 'brahman' eminates from God's body. That Brahman effulgence eminating from God's Bodily glow alights the whole Spiritual World ---the Spiritual World is God's internal energy (sat-chit-ananda prakriti) ---as are all indiviual souls too.

When that Brahman effulgence extends to/shine-upon the material world, the Brahman effulgence is covered by God's External energy (tri-guna prakriti).

Krishna, God, being a Person surveys all that He Lords over. God observes His own majesty as a sporting Autocrat ---like a vain person looking into the Mirror admiringly ---yet, since we are Persons too, God seeks out interpersonal exchanges with souls who devote themselves to Him. God's own way of passing His own Time is to survey the extent of His own ever expanding omniscience. Remember, there are saints that attract God. God is locally present as the nucleus of each individual Soul and dormant atom too. God allows all desires and movements to transpire ---these events can invite God's audience or instead, other activities could dis-invite God's oversight.

Isn't it said that brahman plays hide and seek with himself? My question is why does he do that when he's perfect?? and if he's allknowing, wouldn't he know the outcome of the unfolding of creation? It would be soo nice if somebody could explain this to mee, thank you

Isn't it said that brahman plays hide and seek with himself? My question is why does he do that when he's perfect?? and if he's allknowing, wouldn't he know the outcome of the unfolding of creation?

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Yes, it is a Person that 'does' ---not an 'it'.

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http://www.bhagavad-gita.us/categories/The-Gita%3A-Chapter-3/?Page=2


Bhagavad Gita 3.21
"Whatever action a great man performs, common men follow. And whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues."

Bhagavad Gita 3.22
"O son of Pritha, there is no work prescribed for Me within all the three planetary systems. Nor am I in want of anything, nor have I a need to obtain anything—and yet I am engaged in prescribed duties."

Bhagavad Gita 3.23
"For if I ever failed to engage in carefully performing prescribed duties, O Partha, certainly all men would follow My path."

Bhagavad Gita 3.24
“If I did not perform prescribed duties, all these worlds would be put to ruination. I would be the cause of creating unwanted population, and I would thereby destroy the peace of all living beings.”

Taking me as an example, the people, not performing dharma, would be destroyed. Mixed castes would result. I would be the cause of this. I would pollute the progeny.
http://www.bhagavad-gita.us/articles/526/1/Bhagavad-Gita-324/Page1.html

Bhagavad Gita 3.34
"There are principles to regulate attachment and aversion pertaining to the senses and their objects. One should not come under the control of such attachment and aversion, because they are stumbling blocks on the path of self-realization."

The divide between divine person (or divine personality) and Brahman need not be a concern in my opinion. Both personality and Brahman are compatable. The concern that he unmanifested Brahman some how negates the Divine person is in my opinion, a step on the path and not representative of the 'highest truth' in which all is the Lord. No matter how we approach the Lord, there are twists and turns, until these settle and give way to intuitive awareness.

I found a wise statement, apparently by a wise old soul:

Adviatin logic confirms that to be the case that Brahman is knowable now, if only our mind would be silent enough to realise that for a moment

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I agree that "Advaitin Logic" reveals Brahman. IMO, next would come the Identification Quandry ---Identification of one's Self with Brahman . . . later, the question of Brahman's Self Identity ---all revealed through the agency of the Vedic revelations.

Thus, this classical Silent sitting mantra meditation is the classical discipline required to be practiced expertly from begining to end of one's life:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/hinduism-dir/112475-classical-silent-mantra-meditation.html

My discription is a standard 'boiler-plate' discription of sitting mantra meditation.

IMO, "classic mantra meditation confirms that . . . Brahman is knowable now, if only our mind would be silent enough to realise that for a moment . . . via classical Silent sitting mantra meditation"


thanks for the agency of the Vedic revelations,
Bhaktajan

Friends,

Brahman knowing itself

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When it is understood and realised *Who am I* then it becomes clear that there never was any *I* and it was Brahman from the beginning to end.
Finally it can be concluded that the whole process if there was any was the *Brahman knowing itself* and this is happening eternally.
Love & rgds