Jesus tells people in the 3rd chapter of John that they must be "born again." So millions of Christians claim to be born again. Some say it happened when they "accepted Jesus." Other say when they were baptized. And still others say it was when they joined a certain church. But what does Jesus say. If you continue reading in the 3rd chapter of John Jesus says "That which is born of the flesh IS flesh and that which is born of the Spirit IS spirit. Jesus goes on to explain that the wind blows and you can hear it but you can't see it and "so is everyone that is born of the Spirit." Now all these people claiming to be born again still look like flesh and blood to me. I can see them and hear them. If they were born again of the Spirit they would be invisible like the wind. Of course nobody cares what the Bible says anyway so they just go on claiming to be "born again" and not having any idea what it really means.
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born again?
- Thread starter truseeker
- Start date
Yes , how true !
Most ' born again ' Christians haven't a clue of what it really means.
Scripture gives the explanation but it is totally overlooked and ignored. Rom.1v4 says (concerning his Son Jesus Christ v3) ; 'And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of Holiness by the resurrection from the dead.' THAT is when we are 'born again' - in a resurrection from the dead. Jesus is our example.
In THIS life while flesh and blood we are only ' BEGOTTEN ' (conceived,not yet born) Jas.1v18. While human we have to grow in spiritual knowledge 2Pet.3v18. Flesh and blood can not be in the Kgd of God (heaven) 1Cor.15v50.
Most ' born again ' Christians haven't a clue of what it really means.
Scripture gives the explanation but it is totally overlooked and ignored. Rom.1v4 says (concerning his Son Jesus Christ v3) ; 'And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of Holiness by the resurrection from the dead.' THAT is when we are 'born again' - in a resurrection from the dead. Jesus is our example.
In THIS life while flesh and blood we are only ' BEGOTTEN ' (conceived,not yet born) Jas.1v18. While human we have to grow in spiritual knowledge 2Pet.3v18. Flesh and blood can not be in the Kgd of God (heaven) 1Cor.15v50.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
What bugs me is when people say stuff like, "I was born again on March 12 at 3:57 P.M." I believe we do need to be born again, but I think it is generally not something that just happens at a specific time that can be carefully noted. It involves a change of heart and that often takes time.
waitasec
Veteran Member
this is interesting...
if we were to look at the gospel of john most scholars agree that it was written in greek. most scholars also agree that jesus spoke aramaic. the word "again" in aramaic has 1 meaning...from the beginning but in greek the word again has 2 meanings "from the beginning" and "from above". nicodemus's misunderstanding wouldn't have happened if jesus was speaking in aramaic which means the author(s) of john written almost 100 yrs after jesus, pretty much made this up to re-enforce their propaganda.
dyanaprajna2011
Dharmapala
While I agree that John's gospel, as well as the others, were written too long after the fact, and probably by people with only second hand knowledge, I don't think, at least in this particular passage, that the author was trying to enforce some dogma or propaganda. The earliest Christian sources, the early church fathers, didn't spend much time talking about this passage, and they interpreted it in a completely different way than modern day evangelicals do. But you're right on the Aramaic and Greek ideas, because this isn't the only place where this comes into play, and causes doubt about what Christian scholars tell us about these books.
Exactly so !
GROWING in the spirit takes time much like a Baby from conception to birth. It is foolish to say the child is born when only just conceived. When God says he 'begets us Jas.1v18 we start the process by receiving a ' downpayment or deposit ' of His HS like a 'seed or sperm' Eph.1v14 that must then be nourished to increase during our lifetime (tenfold,twentyfold etc) until developed (grown in change of heart and mind) to fill the office God/Christ have prepared for us Joh.14; in a resurrection Rom.1v4. Not all make it and fall by the wayside because the way is strait and narrow Mat.7v14.
Claiming to be already born again as so many do is taking God's offer as accomplished before they have finished the race. We are admonished to endure to the end to receive the crown. :yes:
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mohammed_beiruti
Active Member
I think it gives us a clue about repentance ; who repent to God with great regret about his sins he is considered( in the sight of God), to be like a new born baby who hasn't commited any sins before.
this verse support my claim
Ezekiel 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
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zenzero
Its only a Label
Friend truseeker,
That is when they are BORN for the first time as their life journey starts from there on as a revolution.
Till than man is in the hands of evolution and mechanically lives their lives satisfying their DESIRES.
To be born again is to start dropping all desires
Love & rgds
Dharmic religions use the words *born again* for those who have had a satori or samadhi in other words those who have understood who THEY are.
That is when they are BORN for the first time as their life journey starts from there on as a revolution.
Till than man is in the hands of evolution and mechanically lives their lives satisfying their DESIRES.
To be born again is to start dropping all desires
Love & rgds
St Giordano Bruno
Well-Known Member
I was taught the term "Born Again" was the so called process of cleansing the person of original sin during the ritual of Baptism, even though I just cannot believe any religious ritual can make the slightest difference to one's "soul". So whatever happens to the "soul" after death any religious rite or conversion is not going to make the least bit of difference.
waitasec
Veteran Member
each gospel had a different audience
this particular gospel was written after all the disciples died. and in their letters you will find they were expecting for jesus to return within their lifetime.
having that said, faith was all they had to rely on... which is prominent in john.
right after the explanation for being born again was...
for god so loved the world...
jn 3:16 the anthem of christianity...
1) What aramaic word are you talking about which you are taking to mean "again"?
2) Are you saying that had Jesus said, more or less, what he is recorded as saying here in aramaic then it would not have been misunderstood? How so?
3) The earliest physical scrap of John (or any NT material) dates from about 100 years after Jesus, and is a copy of a copy of a copy and so on. John was written more like 70 years after Jesus.
waitasec
Veteran Member
Bwtd
yes. read my post again, or, read my post from above
The gospel was apparently written near the end of the first century.[73][74] Bart Ehrman argues that there are differences in the composition of the Greek within the Gospel, such as breaks and inconsistencies in sequence, repetitions in the discourse, as well as passages that he believes clearly do not belong to their context, and believes that these suggest redaction.[75]
The so-called "Monarchian Prologue" to the Fourth Gospel (c. 200) supports A.D. 96 or one of the years immediately following as to the time of its writing.[76] Scholars set a range of c. 90100.[77] The gospel was already in existence early in the 2nd Century.[78] John was composed in stages (probably two or three).[79] There is credible evidence that the Gospel was written no later than the middle of the 2nd century. Since the middle of the 2nd century writings of Justin Martyr use language very similar to that found in the Gospel of John, the Gospel is considered to have been in existence at least at that time.[80] The Rylands Library Papyrus P52, which records a fragment of this gospel, is usually dated to the first half of the 2nd century.[81]
Gospel of John - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
sources; bart ehrman and paula fredricksen
this may be of interest to you
FRONTLINE: from jesus to christ - the first christians: watch the full program online | PBS
I used to have button that said, "I wanted to be born again, but my mother refused."
My mother was not amused.
I myself have never been amused by your leftist sense of humor, either, Pinko Bill.
1) What dialect of aramaic is this (it would be helpful to me if you could post the aramaic characters)?
2) Why are you asserting Jesus would say this as opposed to another word which can mean (among other things) again, such as תּניכוּת or צוֹר?
Okay, how are you arguing that the pragmatics of the greek construction used would lend itself to a less clear understanding than a similar construction in aramaic? More importantly, what would that construction be?
Which, as I said, puts it around 70 years after Jesus.
In addition to my last post, I should also point out that there isn't really any agreement as to whether Jesus also spoke greek and Hebrew. Or rather, it seems extremely likely that he was familiar with both, but less so that he taught in either. Still there are a number of scholars who argue that Jesus would occasionaly have taught in greek for the benefit of the jews in his audience who only knew greek.
St Giordano Bruno
Well-Known Member
Woudn't the concept of being "born again" just another term for believers baptism ? Because I have met a few Christians who profess to be "Born Again" and specifically refer to the moment they were baptised or re-baptised as an adult or an older child as the defining moment of them becoming one. Evidently they do not count infant baptism as a true rite of passage to becoming a born again Christian as it only when they are old enough to understand the creed that they can become one.
John 3:1-10 (King James Version)
1There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
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It is not difficult to understand what the Lord is saying. He is telling us that we must allow the Holy Spirit to miraculously circumcise the power of Satan from our soul. We will know that this operation has occurred when we no longer recognize our prior behaviour to have been 'natural' or indigenous. Nor our new Spiritual behaviour to be 'natural' . When one has been born again they are no longer comfortable thinking and behaving as they used to. They are forever changed for the much better morally and their thinking is much more positive. Many people in the secular world might say this person has suffered a nervous breakdown.