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Creationists, please provide evidence

evolved yet?

A Young Evolutionist
:facepalm::facepalm:

Where did the copper sulphate come from? Where did the inter-molecular bonding originate? :facepalm:
It is a unique trait of some molecules giving them the ability to form crystals, think about it this way, there is 90 natural elements some just happened to have the ability to produce inter-molecular bonding in such a way to produce crystals, just like some were able to form complex macromolecules that can reproduce or have catalytic properties.
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
And you consider it absurd to ask where the universe came from? Or should we just take it on faith that the scientists know....

The question itself is wrong. "Where the universe came from." Macroscopic conceptions of locality break down until a few microseconds after the big bang event. We don't have a theory of quantum gravity to describe what happened during or "before" the Planck time (asking what happened "before" the Planck time is like asking what's north of the north pole, anyway).

Regardless, the answer is that science currently only describes what happened from the first Planck time on from the big bang event.

It's amusing, though, that theists like to ask where the Big Bang came from as if they have an explanation. Their response is "Goddidit" (as usual), forgetting the fact that they're just making a microcosm of the original question: whence came God, then?

"Oh he's always existed," or "Oh he's necessarily existent," etc. is all we can get back. Yeah... that's SUCH a better answer. :facepalm: What's the point of bringing up a phenomenon as if it makes a point for your "side" when NOBODY'S side can claim the answer on it?

Being that as it may, it's just as likely that the universe has always existed; or even more so that the universe has necessary existence. You don't have a "point" whatsoever in using reductio ad absurdum towards asking where the universe came from since theism does not have an answer any more than anyone else does; they just have a microcosm of the same question that they themselves can't explain.

:thud:
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Yes, it was.

O.K., is it your position that God personally cuts out each individual snowflake, or that there are certain chemical and physical properties of crystals, and God designs snowflakes by creating those properties and then allowing them to develop into various snowflake designs?

In other words, when you say that God designs snowflakes, does that mean you reject the Crystalline Theory of Chemistry?
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
And you consider it absurd to ask where the universe came from? Or should we just take it on faith that the scientists know....

No, it's not absurd, it's extremely important...assuming it ever came from anywhere. But what does it have to do with evolution?

Are you saying before we can do any Biology, we have to figure out cosmology first? Why?
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
No, it is not an absurd question. It just so happens that it has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic of this tread.
Also, showing that science doesn't know everything (yet) is a no starter in any case. Science is well aware of this, otherwise, what would be the point of doing science.

However, if you want to infer things (such as has been done with the "house-builder" nonsense), so far every mystery solved has turned out to be...not magic. So by inference, we should consider that this is how it is everywhere else until we find evidence that tells us otherwise.

Now, show me some positive evidence that Creationism is correct. You know, testable observable reproducible evidence. I don't care why you think Evolution is wrong. That is not what this tread is about. In order to have a scientific theory of any kind you MUST have positive evidence.

Now put up or get out. ;)

Evidence--? rusra hasn't even told us yet what his hypothesis is. He's still hung up on the who, which is irrelevant. He hasn't gotten to the how.
 

Venatoris

Active Member
Sad part is that this thread could go on for years and you'd be no closer to getting that evidence than you are right now.

Indeed. You would think that by now all these "intelligent design" "scientists" would have a well established list of evidence in the fossil record identifying every single "kind" that was created by god. Be able to show direct chains of descent for all of them and why they can't possibly be linked to each other by physical characteristics and genetics. Oh, and be able to present it in such a way that it could survive a simple peer review.
 

jarofthoughts

Empirical Curmudgeon
Evidence--? rusra hasn't even told us yet what his hypothesis is. He's still hung up on the who, which is irrelevant. He hasn't gotten to the how.

Very true.
Allow me to rephrase. :D

First: provide us with the Creationist hypothesis (which by the definition of hypothesis must be testable), THEN provide us with the evidence that said hypothesis is correct. :D

Better? ;)
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Still no positive evidence.

There is factual evidenc, circumstantial evidence and testimonial evidence for Creation. As Romans 1:18-20 eloquently expresses: "For God’s wrath is being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who are suppressing the truth in an unrighteous way, because what may be known about God is manifest among them, for God made it manifest to them. For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable;"
Specious arguments cannot suppress the simple truth that all natural things shout "Design, intelligence, engineering genius, unspeakable power!" Scientists mimic that genius found in nature, calling it biomemetrics, while in most cases denying the Genius even exists who holds the patents on the design patterns they use.
They say "There is no proof that God created life" while they are fully dependent upon God for their lives, eating food God created, breathing oxygen God created, drinking water God created. When presented with the evidence for a super intelligence, they glibly dismiss it with "That's no proof".
Each person should examine the evidence for himself/herself and make their own decision about how life began and whether creation or evolution fits the facts, and not be intimidated by ToE advocates or believers in Creation.
 

Noaidi

slow walker
Each person should examine the evidence for himself/herself and make their own decision about how life began and whether creation or evolution fits the facts, and not be intimidated by ToE advocates or believers in Creation.

Okay, so using your quote above, let's examine the evidence. There is a mountain of evidence for the ToE so let's now look at the evidence for creationism.

BTW is anyone else getting fed up asking for this?!
Rusra02: If you haven't got anything beyond bible quotes and "it looks designed", then please just say so and we can move on.
 

jarofthoughts

Empirical Curmudgeon
There is factual evidenc, circumstantial evidence and testimonial evidence for Creation. As Romans 1:18-20 eloquently expresses: "For God’s wrath is being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who are suppressing the truth in an unrighteous way, because what may be known about God is manifest among them, for God made it manifest to them. For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable;"

Quoting the bible doesn't make it so. Just thought you'd like to know that. ;)

pecious arguments cannot suppress the simple truth that all natural things shout "Design, intelligence, engineering genius, unspeakable power!" Scientists mimic that genius found in nature, calling it biomemetrics, while in most cases denying the Genius even exists who holds the patents on the design patterns they use.

And I assume this is just the teaser-post for the upcoming one in which you will actually provide evidence for your claim?

They say "There is no proof that God created life" while they are fully dependent upon God for their lives, eating food God created, breathing oxygen God created, drinking water God created.

I could really use that evidence right about now...

When presented with the evidence for a super intelligence, they glibly dismiss it with "That's no proof".

Sorry, but a Bronze-Age text doesn't cut it as proof.

Each person should examine the evidence for himself/herself and make their own decision about how life began and whether creation or evolution fits the facts, and not be intimidated by ToE advocates or believers in Creation.

Seems to me like you should take your own advice. :)
 

Wotan

Active Member
"Each person should examine the evidence for himself/herself and make their own decision about how life began and whether creation or evolution fits the facts, and not be intimidated by ToE advocates or believers in Creation."

Just to remind you yet AGAIN ToE says NOTHING about how life began. It assumes life and describes how the life forms we see came to be. Your continuing refusal (inability:confused:) to recognize this only serves as evidence of your ignorance.:facepalm:
 

walmul

Member
You like to attack evolution but I have never heard positive evidence for your beliefs please provide some.

Hi.
I can be called a creationist, a evolutionist, a atheist, a gnostic etc, thing is I like to look at life from many perspectives, life is just too intricate to look at it from only one or two angles.

To give absolute proof by anybody is just about impossible. Looking from a scientific (I am not a scientist) point of view tell me that whatever is under the microscope and living, some form of creation must have caused that living thing to be here, millions of years ago that small living thing might have looked differently due to an evolution process the ancestors of that living thing had gone through, scientific studies have indicated with relative proof that what I am stating here is quite possible.

To just reject the creationists claim out right could also be wrong, we don't know due to lack of evidence whether a creator exist or not. Whatever we look at around us tells us it must have started somewhere, and with something. Nothing can be created with nothing, the evolutionist claim that everything just started some time in the past from a big bang is also a theory, a theory which can be explained from a number of angles to make it look possible but is it even close to true? No definately not.

If it did start from a big bang, something caused the big bang, yes a number of elements which interacted and 'pow' here we are! Something or someone must have mixed those elements knowing exactly what the outcome would be, the design of every living thing we look at and investigate tells us that a intelligence was involved, that is a conclusion all scientists come to after having studied life for some time, even the hard core atheist scientists, but lack of proof deny them to accept a creator.

Something the creationists and evolutionists can think about is this; grass, plants, trees, flowers, insects, small to large animals, germs, viruses etc, live, all those things breath in air, and eat in some manner, same as us!

Religion and folkreligion across the globe talks about spirit, and life after death etc.

No dead man we know have come back yet in another body some hundred or thousand years later and while awake told us exactly who he or she was all those years ago and prove it by way of historical books etc, because of this we don't want to believe in spirit, no proof!

Ok, let's assume; according to science the first life on earth were microscopic organisms similar to the amoeba and also procreated by way of self division. many years later due to survival instincts these organisms have mutated into various different bigger creatures, but to this day we still find those exact same microscopic organisms, and in remote areas some of their later descendants!

Which tells us what?

Creation hasn't stopped!

Some time ago a scientist told me that a group of scientists experimented with atoms, they managed to lock a atom inside a container, placed a wall in the middle with a slot in it and chased the atom through the slot to the other side, the scientist busy with the test expected the atom to hit the other wall in a direct line, but it didn't, it veered from the straight line and hit at a place not "expected" he tried again, same result, another scientist tried, same story.

He then asked me my opinion, which is this; that small microscopic thing experience us fully, but we only experience it in a small way. Which led me to think that nature can 'read' us, but we due to our ignorance in relation to spirit cannot 'read' nature.

My suggestion is; do you think it is possible that spirit evolve the same as the physical entities which first breathed the air on this planet, is it possible that we have reincarnated numerous times learning all the way and because of this are able to grasp science so readily, but our ignorance in regards to spirit is keeping us back? Is preventing us to really understand creation?

Just a thought.

walmul.
 

DeitySlayer

President of Chindia
Walmul, you do realize that evolution makes absolutely zero pronouncement on the Big Bang or the origin of life. Evolution holds only that given an original form of life, all present biodiversity could have arisen from this by evolution.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
There is factual evidenc, circumstantial evidence and testimonial evidence for Creation. As Romans 1:18-20 eloquently expresses: "For God’s wrath is being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who are suppressing the truth in an unrighteous way, because what may be known about God is manifest among them, for God made it manifest to them. For his invisible [qualities] are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable;"
Specious arguments cannot suppress the simple truth that all natural things shout "Design, intelligence, engineering genius, unspeakable power!" Scientists mimic that genius found in nature, calling it biomemetrics, while in most cases denying the Genius even exists who holds the patents on the design patterns they use.
They say "There is no proof that God created life" while they are fully dependent upon God for their lives, eating food God created, breathing oxygen God created, drinking water God created. When presented with the evidence for a super intelligence, they glibly dismiss it with "That's no proof".
Each person should examine the evidence for himself/herself and make their own decision about how life began and whether creation or evolution fits the facts, and not be intimidated by ToE advocates or believers in Creation.


HOW. HOW. HOW. NOT WHO, HOW.

Why can you not grasp this simple concept?
We are not discussing WHO created the universe, but HOW. Yes, God created and designed everything on earth and in the heavens. That's a given. We're all agreeing with you. Got that? It's not that complicated, really. Now the question is: HOW? How did God create the many species on earth? What is your hypothesis for HOW God created the tremendous variety of species?

You can't begin to look for evidence until you first state your hypothesis, which you have not done.

We're all waiting.
 
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