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Is Teaching Children They Might Go to Hell Child Abuse?

Bloomdido

Bloomdido

Member
Buttons* said:
Say a child knows about hell from discussions with friends, or attending a church ceremony (with friends, family or otherwise), or seeing a billboard commenting on it. If, in this case, the child is brought up in a Christian home, and is thus told:

1) This is what hell is like .... (own definition)
2) a. We are all sinners, and we all deserve hell, BUT (go to number 3) :D
b. All you have to do is be a good person and follow a few rules about being a good person
3) a. Say that if you believe that Jesus died for your sins, and you have faith, you will not suffer after this life, no matter what you do. (Just repent)
b. Discuss the rules and why they make sense in a pragmatic way. (It would be hard to slam the 10 commandments and parables of Jesus.)
4. Mentioning that heaven is also a likely possibility, and that it's the child's choice.

None of these options seem abusive to me. Even if a parent coerces their child to have faith in Jesus, the parent is thinking that they are saving their child, not harming them. If it is used as truly abusive, and the parent does something like this:

1) Tell the child about the kinds of suffering in hell, complete with explicit hellfire and suffering
2) Tell the child they are going there because they are a piece of ****
3) Tell the child that anything wrong they do will send them to hell
4) Threatening the child with hell constantly, or condemning them to hell.

It does not seem to be a reasonable way to handle it. THIS is a form of abuse. Not the former, because I believe in good intentions, and I think the parents in the first examples merely want to take care of their children in this life and after. Why is that abusive?
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Or tell the child that hell exists in the minds of people who have been indoctrinated into 'fath' and want eternal life at any price. You could even get radical and help the child look for evidence of hell. Of course, there isn't any.
 
H

Humanistheart

Well-Known Member
Sunstone said:
Is it abusive to teach children that they might go to hell? Why or why not?
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Given the nature of what hell's become of course it's abusive. If you told the child if you don't believe in god enough I'll beat you over and over again would be abusive, and hell's a thousand times worse than repeated beatings, so how on earth would it not be abusive? And what's worse is that it's not a controllable action that leads to hell in this scheama. One cannot choose to believe in god as one can choose to misbehave. I treid for years to believe in god for fear of hell and it just never worked, I could not believe in the religion I was raised to. Plus what kind of moral message are we sending children? God loves you but if you don't love him you'll be tormented for all eternity with no reprieve? This is hardly a good moral message. If one is supposed to strive to be like god and god tortures those whom didn't meet his standards then it's like saying it's okay to beat people that don't meet your own standards, because it's what god would do. And even if one doesn't explain to the child the full image of hell, or just teaches chrsitianity without mentioning hell, the children will learn it eventually, from church, friends, or reading the bible themselves so this is not doing them any favors, rather their just setting them up for a moral and spiritual chrises later down the line.
 
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Bloomdido

Bloomdido

Member
Humanistheart said:
Given the nature of what hell's become of course it's abusive. If you told the child if you don't believe in god enough I'll beat you over and over again would be abusive, and hell's a thousand times worse than repeated beatings, so how on earth would it not be abusive? And what's worse is that it's not a controllable action that leads to hell in this scheama. One cannot choose to believe in god as one can choose to misbehave. I treid for years to believe in god for fear of hell and it just never worked, I could not believe in the religion I was raised to. Plus what kind of moral message are we sending children? God loves you but if you don't love him you'll be tormented for all eternity with no reprieve? This is hardly a good moral message. If one is supposed to strive to be like god and god tortures those whom didn't meet his standards then it's like saying it's okay to beat people that don't meet your own standards, because it's what god would do. And even if one doesn't explain to the child the full image of hell, or just teaches chrsitianity without mentioning hell, the children will learn it eventually, from church, friends, or reading the bible themselves so this is not doing them any favors, rather their just setting them up for a moral and spiritual chrises later down the line.
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That's the essence of it. God loves you but if you don't stack up, he will punish you with eternal suffering. Sick.
 
V

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
Well let's look at the rationale behind Hell.

You commit finite crimes on Earth and for it, you may be cursed with pain and agony for an infinite amount of time. Does that seem fair to you?

You commit a crime, you go to jail for a finite time. If you're a kid, your parents ground you for a finite time, send you to time-out for a finite time, spank you a finite number of times. The keyword here is finite.

The thought that you should receive eternal punishment for what you do on Earth is morally sickening. No matter what you do, even if you rape and kill a million people, that's a finite crime. And sure, you would deserve a long and hard punishment. But certainly not an infinite sentence.

Even if you tell the kid "Well if you believe in Jesus and go to church and give lots and lots of money to your pastor, you won't go to Hell :)," it's still using fear in order to scare your child into behaving. How about instead of scaring your child ****less, how about teaching your kid some responsibility and the value of doing good for its own sake?

Hell is not a moral concept nor does it instill morality. Teaching it is not necessarily child abuse, though. It all depends on the child and how you teach the concept and whether or not you have indoctrinated your child into an Abrahamic faith.
 
Aquitaine

Aquitaine

Well-Known Member
At best, teaching a Child that he/she might burn in Hell, and clogging up their brain with Theological junk is nothing more than a waste of time, breath, and memory.

At worst however, it is definitely child abuse because a lot of religious people take it way too far. Even with things that arn't related to Hell, like gential mutilation, it's all a case of someone "enforcing" their own fairytale beliefs onto someone else, and really, it's wrong.
 
MdmSzdWhtGuy

MdmSzdWhtGuy

Well-Known Member
Yes, it is child abuse. I suffered for many years as a child from the terror of the idea of going to Hell, or that those I loved would go. But mostly I was terrified I would work my *** off, go to church Sunday morning, Sunday night, and Wednesday night every week, then to a week or two of vacation bible school in the summer, a couple of retreats a year, all of which we did, only to say a curse word just before I died, only to wind up in Hell, anyways, after all that ridiculous time and energy put into trying so desperately to avoid this disaster.

About the age of 11 or so, maybe 12, I realized the odds of me saying a curse word upon seeing the bus bear down on me, or whatever else might cause my eventual demise, was simply too high to be worth all the effort and intellectual dishonesty of going around saying I believed things that were not true, and all the rituals, and denials of, well, basically anything that might possibly cause any enjoyment in this life.

It took me years and years to shake off the shackles of this backwards way of thinking, even after coming to grips with losing my faith and accepting rationality and reason in its place. I think not only Hell, but faith in general is harmful to society at large, and specifically children, who are in the most vulnerable position of us all.
 
Buttons*

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
Bloomdido said:
Or tell the child that hell exists in the minds of people who have been indoctrinated into 'fath' and want eternal life at any price. You could even get radical and help the child look for evidence of hell. Of course, there isn't any.
Click to expand...
If the child is raised in a Christian family, I highly doubt they'll go for your option. But in an odd way, it may be even scarier for a child to think that once they die, they just die. They don't go to heaven forever. That can also be a traumatic idea for a child to handle. But I don't think that either way, what you tell your child (if it's NOT done in an abusive manner) is really abuse.
 
V

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
Buttons* said:
If the child is raised in a Christian family, I highly doubt they'll go for your option. But in an odd way, it may be even scarier for a child to think that once they die, they just die. They don't go to heaven forever. That can also be a traumatic idea for a child to handle. But I don't think that either way, what you tell your child (if it's NOT done in an abusive manner) is really abuse.
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How is just rotting in the ground a traumatic idea? Millions of atheists accept this and are happy with it and prefer it to the alternative of chumming it up with a bunch of boring, stuffy, old theists at the Pearly Gates for all eternity.

*In Heaven*
Theist 1: You brought beer!?!?!?
Theist 2: Relax, brother. It is of the non-alcoholic variety.
Theist 1: Hallelujah!!! :D


.....*shudder*....THAT is more traumatic, in my opinion.
 
Amill

Amill

Apikoros
I find it hard to classify it as child abuse. I would hope that most parents tell their children about hell only because they believe in it themselves, and are wanting to make sure their children are protected from it. I blame the religion itself, not the parents.
 
V

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
Amill said:
I find it hard to classify it as child abuse. I would hope that most parents tell their children about hell only because they believe in it themselves, and are wanting to make sure their children are protected from it. I blame the religion itself, not the parents.
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Protected from a place that almost certainly doesn't exist?
 
Amill

Amill

Apikoros
ContentiusMaximus said:
Protected from a place that almost certainly doesn't exist?
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I agree but if the parents honestly do believe then they are hopefully looking out for what they think are the best interests of the child. I dislike all of it and I understand that hell is just a tool of fear, I'm just not sure I'd classify it as abuse if the intentions are to protect, not to scare.
 
V

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
Storm said:
So, you don't buy into the argument that one of religion's primary purposes is to assuage fear of death?
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Why would people be afraid of death? I can understand a will to live, but dying is inevitable. And deluding yourself and making up fairy tales about what happens after you croak doesn't do any good because you end up living your life for this delusion. It's a way for people to try and escape entering "the unknown".

If people need that security blanket, fine. But I think it's a lot healthier to accept you will die and rot in the ground and likely some dog will **** on your remains than to make up fantasies about a kingdom in the clouds.
 
V

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
Amill said:
I agree but if the parents honestly do believe then they are hopefully looking out for what they think are the best interests of the child. I dislike all of it and I understand that hell is just a tool of fear, I'm just not sure I'd classify it as abuse if the intentions are to protect, not to scare.
Click to expand...

But for many, the intention is to protect AND scare. They "protect" by scaring their children into thinking if they do anything wrong or **** off God, they'll burn forever.
 
Buttons*

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
ContentiusMaximus said:
How is just rotting in the ground a traumatic idea? Millions of atheists accept this and are happy with it and prefer it to the alternative of chumming it up with a bunch of boring, stuffy, old theists at the Pearly Gates for all eternity.

*In Heaven*
Theist 1: You brought beer!?!?!?
Theist 2: Relax, brother. It is of the non-alcoholic variety.
Theist 1: Hallelujah!!! :D


.....*shudder*....THAT is more traumatic, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Well yes, but I doubt many children like beer. :rolleyes:


I think that rotting in the ground can be just as traumatic as teaching a child that there is a hell. It depends on what the child grows up knowing. But if it's done in a mean way, of course it will be abusive. Still, I agree with you on this bit:

Millions of atheists accept this and are happy with it and prefer it to the alternative of chumming it up with a bunch of boring, stuffy, old theists at the Pearly Gates for all eternity.

I agree because I want to show you that perhaps it is the case that millions of atheists are happy to believe in rotting in the ground as the finale for life. If they teach their children this from birth, it probably won't be traumatic or abusive to the child in question.

Apply hell and heaven (together) in the same context, and you see that the two aren't so different. Anything you tell your child could be counted as abusive. It's how you do it that makes the difference.
 
V

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
Buttons* said:
Well yes, but I doubt many children like beer. :rolleyes:


I think that rotting in the ground can be just as traumatic as teaching a child that there is a hell. It depends on what the child grows up knowing. But if it's done in a mean way, of course it will be abusive. Still, I agree with you on this bit:

Millions of atheists accept this and are happy with it and prefer it to the alternative of chumming it up with a bunch of boring, stuffy, old theists at the Pearly Gates for all eternity.

I agree because I want to show you that perhaps it is the case that millions of atheists are happy to believe in rotting in the ground as the finale for life. If they teach their children this from birth, it probably won't be traumatic or abusive to the child in question.

Apply hell and heaven (together) in the same context, and you see that the two aren't so different. Anything you tell your child could be counted as abusive. It's how you do it that makes the difference.
Click to expand...

Telling your child nothing will happen to him if he dies is a much better alternative than telling him that if he doesn't strictly follow dogma, he will roast in Hell forever and ever, even if you teach of the concept of Heaven with it. You are overlooking the point of an infinite punishment being doled out for finite crimes.
 
kai

kai

ragamuffin
is telling the truth so out of order , because i dont think anyone really knows for sure, so what i say is, i dont know! but this is what these people believe and this is what those people believe.
 
V

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
kai said:
is telling the truth so out of order , because i dont think anyone really knows for sure, so what i say is, i dont know! but this is what these people believe and this is what those people believe.
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We do know for sure. Brain death = blackness, nothing, kaputz. You rot. Life goes on.

If people want to debate about souls and consciousness after that, that's their business. It's all speculative BS.
 
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