The Tree of Knowledge

OmarKhayyam said:

"He is a Merciful and Forgiving God"

Of course he is. Rape, genocide, slavery, murder, all in a days work. Northing to be concerned about.

And just to be sure he killed off most of us a fit of peak.

He just loves us SO MUCH he couldn't help himself!

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That's the penalty we pay for free will, Omar

If we did not have free will, that would not happen, as we would be similar to angels who can do no evil and can only do good

Before giving Adam free will, He offered it to other creatures, and they all refused to accept it

Our father Adam accepted it, and here we are .....

Our duty on earth is to use our free will in the right direction

Those who don't, will be held accountable in The Hereafter

So at the end it's our free choice .....

Do you hate freedom?

michel said:

From:- "http://www.gracecathedral.org/enrichment/brush_excerpts/brush_20030409.shtml
The Tree of Knowledge

And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil....
And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
-- Genesis 2: 9, 16-17 (KJV)

Is the knowledge referred to perhaps science, as we know it to be now? why, or why not?
​

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To partake of the Tree of Knowledge is to allow Satan to deceive you of Gods word, anything that contradicts Gods word, indeed part of it is what we call science, the serpent is a symbol representing Satan. To "partake of it and surely die" means just that, but spiritual death instead of physical death. The only way your soul can perish is if you side with Satan and choose to ignore God i.e. damnation. Later on God made Adam and Eve partake of the Tree of Life, so that they may live forever..again spiritually not physically. If you accept Christ and follow the rules you will pass judgment and live eternally with God.

"That's the penalty we pay for free will, Omar"

That excuses your god of all the crimes IT committed.

That is just a sick perverted despicable idea.

OmarKhayyam said:

"That's the penalty we pay for free will, Omar"

That excuses your god of all the crimes IT committed.

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It's actually the other way round

Crimes humans committed by their free will

Try to be more objective and fair ....

Why blame God for all the evil in the world if you don't believe God exists in the first place?

Enoch07 said:

To partake of the Tree of Knowledge is to allow Satan to deceive you of Gods word, anything that contradicts Gods word, indeed part of it is what we call science, the serpent is a symbol representing Satan. To "partake of it and surely die" means just that, but spiritual death instead of physical death. The only way your soul can perish is if you side with Satan and choose to ignore God i.e. damnation. Later on God made Adam and Eve partake of the Tree of Life, so that they may live forever..again spiritually not physically. If you accept Christ and follow the rules you will pass judgment and live eternally with God.

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Yes, I'll go along with that; it fits perfectly as far as I am concerned......

michel said:

From:- "http://www.gracecathedral.org/enrichment/brush_excerpts/brush_20030409.shtml
The Tree of Knowledge

And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil....
And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
-- Genesis 2: 9, 16-17 (KJV)

Is the knowledge referred to perhaps science, as we know it to be now? why, or why not?
​

Click to expand...

Yes.... the tree of knowledge is like the tree of life (darwin); they both evolve!

Look into darwin's book On the Origins of Species; he drew the 'tree of life' that shares how life evolved from the central point (i say nature/existence/God) in HIS time; not 6k yrs.

the tree of knowledge is what to follow as it is when truth has reached its pinnacle that the 'revealing' is upon the earth

Revelations 2:

5 remember, then, whence thou hast fallen, and reform, and the first works do; and if not, I come to thee quickly, and will remove thy lamp-stand from its place -- if thou mayest not reform;

6but this thou hast, that thou dost hate the works of the Nicolaitans, that I also hate.
7He who is having an ear -- let him hear what the Spirit saith to the assemblies: To him who is overcoming -- I will give to him to eat of the tree of life that is in the midst of the paradise of God.


or
Revelation 22


1And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, bright as crystal, going forth out of the throne of God and of the Lamb:

2in the midst of its broad place, and of the river on this side and on that, [is] a tree of life, yielding twelve fruits, in each several month rendering its fruits, and the leaves of the tree [are] for the service of the nations;

3and any curse there shall not be any more, and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him,

4and they shall see His face, and His name [is] upon their foreheads


the knowledge is the name to know

is it in your head...............?

Well, that's fine if that's what you believe; personally, I believe in God, and in evolution - God started off this word with all the potential and building blocks so that life would evolve.

Scientist have most of it right (as far as I am concerned - Don't hit me, I wear glasses!!! - tries to find them in a panic -:cover, but they can't accept what they can't prove, therefore their knowledge is limited to their eyesight - figuratively.

michel said:

Well, that's fine if that's what you believe; personally, I believe in God, and in evolution - God started off this word with all the potential and building blocks so that life would evolve.

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awe.......... so the perfect story of genesis would be starting off with 'atoms and energy' versus adam and eve.

eg... Eve was supposed to come from the rib of adam but in biology we can see that ALL life gives a portion of itself, divides and makes the next generation.

So the bible can be understood if not taken literal (hence; the tree of knowledge, enables mankind to understand)

Scientist have most of it right (as far as I am concerned - Don't hit me, I wear glasses!!! - tries to find them in a panic -:cover, but they can't accept what they can't prove, therefore their knowledge is limited to their eyesight - figuratively.

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the sciences offer more the on the comprehension of life, then all the bibles and religious material combined

the sciences are evolving, the religions are oppressing

the reason is one side live in honesty, the other lives in beliefs over the pursuit of knowledge

you so happen to sit in the middle and still confused

awe.......... so the perfect story of genesis would be starting off with 'atoms and energy' versus adam and eve.

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atom... SOUNDS like/IS the same SPOKEN word as... adam (adom)

eve... the beginning... the dawn*ing.

UltraViolet said:

atom... SOUNDS like/IS the same SPOKEN word as... adam (adom)

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and since all things across the whole universe are composed of atoms and energy (light), then to observe the beginning of life based from atoms and energy, then the evolution and comprehension of life, can be performed which is equal to all mankind

energy (correctly defined) is light (electromagnet: electric and magnetic fields are perpedicular planes; the cross)

to understand the light, then each can understand life


basically what most all the religions have said for thousands of years

UltraViolet said:

there you go... and "eve" is the "dawn"... or the rising of light.

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is dawn from the rising light?

Bishadi said:

is dawn from the rising light?

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eve.....the threshold of day/light.
(perhaps eve-n a big bang?)

nevermind.

So god speaks English now?

The lengths believers will go to justify this mythology - astonishing.

michel said:

From:- "http://www.gracecathedral.org/enrichment/brush_excerpts/brush_20030409.shtml
The Tree of Knowledge

And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil....
And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
-- Genesis 2: 9, 16-17 (KJV)

Is the knowledge referred to perhaps science, as we know it to be now? why, or why not?
​

Click to expand...

Michel,
The reason for the Tree of Knowledge being in the garden was to give Adam and Eve the opportunity to show God that they loved Him and wanted to look to Him to decide what was good and bad for them.
Adam and Eve already knew what was good and bad, this was their opportunity to prove they wanted to look to Him as their God. They had everything in the garden they needed, and God only required that they reproduce and and have in subjection all the animals. They had only ONE simple thing to show they appreciated all that He had done for them; Do not eat of the Tree of Knowledge. They ate and therefore rejected God as their God and chose Satan instead.
More than likely, if they had obeyed God's command for a reasonable period, God would have allowed them to eat of the Tree, and have everlasting life assured. Instead they stole from God and showed Him that they wanted to decide for themselves what was right and wrong instead of relying on the Allknowing creator. For this they got death, with no hope of a resurrection. They returned to the dust from which they were made.

Thief here...may we please back-up just a few paces?

In post #1 the usual quote of the Bible reads well enough...
So Genesis3:3 implies that life is assured as long as there is obedience.


But as the story goes on...Adam and Eve are expelled from the Garden
before they have the chance to eat from the tree of life...and live forever.
Genesis3:22...indicates Man was never intended to live forever.
The possibility was there in the Garden...but never acquired.

The acquisition of knowledge got Adam and Eve expelled from the Garden.
How does it follow that knowing right from wrong makes a person unworthy of good living?
If Adam and Eve had moved quickly to eat of the tree of life, what would we be like now?
And could God have done anything about it?

Sometimes... a story makes implications.
God could have stopped the story from unfolding as it did.
He didn't.
Please read Chapter Two altogether, and keep my questions in mind.

OmarKhayyam said:

So god speaks English now?

The lengths believers will go to justify this mythology - astonishing.

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gOd doesn't know how to speak english?!?

zenzero said:

Friend falvlun,

Since these questions have been raised by your mind; please let us go slowly and one at a time. Kindly respond to the questions in red and then shall take up from there.

Here how does understanding differentiate between any thing? Who says this is good and this is bad?

Love & rgds

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As always, thank you for your patience.

In the context of the story, I would think that the "fruit" (and therefore God) is what differentiates between the good and the bad.

In a more secular context, I would say societal, and to a lesser degree, evolutionary conditions, dictate that which is good from the bad.

Understanding, in itself, does not differentiate between anything: I agree with you there. But if I were to say to you that I finally understood photosynthesis, would that mean that I also now understood how the moon controls the tides? The story specifically states that the knowledge and understanding gained was that of good and evil; I do not see any evidence to extrapolate it to mean "all things".

Friend falvlun,

The old testament is just about human life in a story.
Evolution takes a long long time and so to cut the story short.
Humans devised a concept of god and since god stands to mean the energy from which everything evolved.
And in a week the story brought us to the present to when humans first evolved as a THINKING being.
Till humans appeared the universe was [and still is] the garden of eden.
But who is satan?
The human mind! because it is the mind that thinks and when it thinks it is immediately falls in the land of duality where god and satan comes into play where knowledge has a different meaning than what is already available.
Satan or the mind provokes humans to the state where he starts thinking that he is greater or bigger than existence or god or the universal energy of which he is a part whatever label one puts.
This thinking creates the divide.
In meditation too the mind works. How does all plants and animals survive?
They too have minds but there the thinking happens in harmony with existence.
The human mind is the only mind which has the ability to THINK both as during meditation when the thinking is controlled or thinking is done only on such thoughts as the individual requires. When animals need to eat they use their mind to develop strategies of how to hunt not other times.
Other times it will least be interested BUT humans will hunt to horde not only for their present hunger [for which nature has ample eatables] but for tomorrow, day after, till death, for their next generation and till eternity if possible.
This thinking by the mind itself is the creation of duality like good/ bad etc.
Yes, now it is upto your mind, how it lets you analyse this and take it.
Love & rgds

Thief here...
Some people are crossing terms...and apparently not aware.

Good and evil are terms referring to the nature of an item.
Good and bad are terms to the condition of an item.
Right and wrong to the matters of social moralities.
Correct and incorrect to the conclusion of questions.

In Scripture the tree of knowledge is limited to that particular knowledge...
the difference between good and evil.

If you look through the collection of books the Bible has become...
you will see catch phrases...
'The Lord did repent the evil He would do...'

The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah would be an evil thing.
Evil in this case is the doing of harm.

In Scripture some beasts are said to be evil.

The text in post #1 is followed by God making declaration (to His angels) that Man as become as we are, knowing good from evil.

Man was then expelled from the Garden for having gained that distinction.
But are we really like God and His angels...that we know the nature of things around us.