• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The Collective Messiah - Isaiah 53

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
+++Ben: - Did he have to say? Can't you see through his obviousness. Of course, you can't! Blind faith won't let you.

Ok, I see you are unprepared to answer the question, typical. :rolleyes:

+++Ben: - That's Moses I am talking about, and far from me to disrespect him.

Funny, we were talking about Paul and Romans 9: 1-3. Now your talking about Moses. You really should pay better attention.

+++Ben: - Listen, I have nothing personal against you and I didn't offend you. My fight is against Paul who founded a religion that has killed more of my people than
any institution from before and after it.

Ben, the problem is your blatant fabrications like the one above. Where in the Scriptures does Paul or Jesus promote, condone or encourage killing people. This is why I have to call you out. If you could debate with Scripture, documented facts or even reasonable observation, the tone of my replies would correspond.

+++Ben: - Yes, that's why. So, get off my case!

Should some academic integrity.

With reference to Romans 9:1-3, I know that we were talking about Paul. Then, I told you that in his prank to project himself like Moses, he indirectly quotes his altruism by rather having his name struck out of the book of life than having the Israelites destroyed. (Exo. 32:32) As I can see, you don't know what I am talking about.

Ben :rolleyes:
 

Jeremy Mason

Well-Known Member
With reference to Romans 9:1-3, I know that we were talking about Paul. Then, I told you that in his prank to project himself like Moses, he indirectly quotes his altruism by rather having his name struck out of the book of life than having the Israelites destroyed. (Exo. 32:32)

Ben :rolleyes:

See, you can provide Scriptural reference. Now we getting somewhere.

As I can see, you don't know what I am talking about.

You keep providing references to support your posts and this problem will end.
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
See, you can provide Scriptural reference. Now we getting somewhere.

You keep providing references to support your posts and this problem will end.


Good! So, now you have the source where Paul plagiarized his hypocrisy from
without even the decency to quote.

Ben :rolleyes:
 

Jeremy Mason

Well-Known Member
Good! So, now you have the source where Paul plagiarized his hypocrisy from
without even the decency to quote.

Ben :rolleyes:

Paul might have recalled Moses saying this or he might have though about it on his own and you can't prove Paul's intent to plagiarize. The point is he cared about Israel deeply and your trying to prove your point by assassinating Paul's motives and character. As I have said, your shame has to limit.
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Paul might have recalled Moses saying this or he might have though about it on his own and you can't prove Paul's intent to plagiarize. The point is he cared about Israel deeply and your trying to prove your point by assassinating Paul's motives and character. As I have said, your shame has to limit.

Do we have to prove intents? Aren't we able to think from reading between the lines?
God Almighty! The man is not here standing in a Court of Law with the sword of
Demostenes hanging over his head. Anyone is allowed to speculate on evidences of
his life. Paul never cared about Israel beyond the converts he could steal from the
Synagogues of the Nazarenes.

Ben :rolleyes:
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Dear Ben, I am curious as to this one, Sweetie can you explain what you mean by Paul plagiarized. :shrug:

Charity, any allusion in the Tanach with reference, for instance to crucifixion, he and his cronies plagiarized from Palam 22.
The three days in the tomb before the resurrection, they plagiarized from Jonah, the doctrine of Jesus' sacrifice for the
redemption of Mankind, they plagiarized from Isaiah 53. The seed of the woman to claim it for Jesus he plagiarized from Genesis 3:15.
The virgin birth to claim that Jesus was the one, he plagiarized from Isaiah 7:14. The slaughtering of the children two years old and under in Bethlehem,
they plagiarized from the life of the birth of Moses in Egypt. The 30 pieces of silver in the betrayal of Jesus by Judas, they plagiarized from the selling of Joseph by his brothers.
And so on and on, almost the whole NT is an acount of plagiarism from the Tanach with the intent to establish a new covenant and discard Israel from God's election.
In a word, Replacement Theology, which is no less than Antisemitism.

Ben :shout
 
Last edited:

Jeremy Mason

Well-Known Member
Do we have to prove intents?

Yes

Aren't we able to think from reading between the lines?

Apparently, that your problem.

God Almighty!

:redcard:
Exodus 20:7 (NIV)

7 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.


:tsk:



The man is not here standing in a Court of Law with the sword of Demostenes hanging over his head. Anyone is allowed to speculate on evidences of his life.


You are also accusing Paul based on your ill contrived speculation. Some people call it slander.


Paul never cared about Israel beyond the converts he could steal from the Synagogues of the Nazarenes.


More slander. :no:


Well, I have had enough of your babbling. :yes:
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Yes

+++Ben: - I didn't expect a "yes" so fast because I thought you could think.

Apparently, that your problem.

+++Ben: - Intelligent speculations though.

Exodus 20:7 (NIV)
7 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.

+++Ben: - "God Almighty" is not one of the names of God. It's a title, if I am to remind you.

You are also accusing Paul based on your ill contrived speculation. Some people call it slander.

+++Ben: - There is no such a thing as postmortem slander. Let's not get into the legality of laws, unless you can prove yourself less poorer than in Theology where
your strength is not found.

More slander. :no:
Well, I have had enough of your babbling. :yes:

+++Ben: - Good hindrance!

Ben :eek:
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Paul might have recalled Moses saying this or he might have though about it on his own and you can't prove Paul's intent to plagiarize. The point is he cared about Israel deeply and your trying to prove your point by assassinating Paul's motives and character. As I have said, your shame has to limit.

Oh! You too like to speculate, don't you? How do you know that Paul "might have recalled Moses saying whatever he said? How do you know that Paul might have thought about it on his own? That's what I call empty speculations. What I speculate, at least I show the basis for it. Your "might have..." is based on what?

Ben :rolleyes:
 

Charity

Let's go racing boys !
Gosh guys, I think you both speculate too much! You could spend your energy in a much more fun way...:flirt: Am I right Ben? :D
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Gosh guys, I think you both speculate too much! You could spend your energy in a much more fun way...:flirt: Am I right Ben? :D


You are always right baby!

According to the message to the church of Laodicea, this Jeremy has proved to be like lukewarm water which is given to someone in order to induce vomit. That's in Revelation 3:16.

Ben :eek:
 

AK4

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Masada
Yes sir, Israel, the collective Messiah is the mediator between God and the rest of Mankind. Between God and Israel there is no mediator. God, the only One God, whithout an equal is Israel only Redeemer. Read Isaiah 43:11; 46:5.

No, Samuel did not lie. You are the one who do not understand him. The sins of Israel against God are not like the sins of the world. Of the other nations God will make an end; but of Israel He will only chastise as we deserve. God has provided exiles for us to be purged of our uncleanness. Read Ezekiel 22:15.

What Paul preached was a Christology that he fabricated in order to explain two things: First, to explain how a dead man could still be the Messiah; and second, to
project his main purpose which was to hide the real truth about being himself the Messiah of Christianity.

Ben


HERESY AND BLASPHEMY. the gentiles are to pray to Isreal to mediate for the rest of mankind? Come on now

You are right the sins of Israel against God are not like the sins of the world---THEYRE WORSE! To know the Truth and reject it is what makes it worse, but then again ALL are guilty because to commit one sin is to commit them all.

Wow how little you understand. God will make a end to the other nations huh? But He says..

Ps 2:9 -Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Re 2:27 - And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Re 12:5 - And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Re 19:15 - And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
You are so spiritually blind. Dont you know what nations symbolize? PEOPLE--not just collectly but indivdually! Why cant you see that?



Quote:
God will make an end; but of Israel He will only chastise as we deserve.
See how you just cant see. God who is no respector of persons will put and end to the others but only chastise Israel? God will only chastise those who claim to know Him and the others who never knew Him He will annihilate? :thud:You are just as bad as those who believe God will burn most of mankind in hell!


Quote:
What Paul preached was a Christology that he fabricated in order to explain two things: First, to explain how a dead man could still be the Messiah; and second, to
project his main purpose which was to hide the real truth about being himself the Messiah of Christianity
Paul made up Christology huh? That he made up all himself? I guess PETER was preaching something else in Acts 1, I guess Thomas calling Jesus Lord and My God was Pauls or his cronies?

Or even Peter again in Matt 16:13.....Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

You kill me.

Uhhh Beeeeeeeeeeen im still waiting on your answer. I see once again you are not able to answer and is getting another mouthful:foot::foot::foot: (if only we could add sound effects)
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Uhhh Beeeeeeeeeeen im still waiting on your answer. I see once again you are not able to answer and is getting another mouthful:foot::foot::foot: (if only we could add sound effects)

The worst ignorant is the one who commits himself to discuss a subject when he does not have a clue about what he is talking about.
You made a big deal about my saying that of the other nations God may make an end, but of Israel He will only chastize as we deserve.
"Heresy!" You screemed as if you know anything of the Scriptures. Now, go back and open your Bible in Jeremiah 30:11 and
hold your tongue from speaking nonsense. You surely need help. :help:

Ben
 

AK4

Well-Known Member
The worst ignorant is the one who commits himself to discuss a subject when he does not have a clue about what he is talking about.
You made a big deal about my saying that of the other nations God may make an end, but of Israel He will only chastize as we deserve.
"Heresy!" You screemed as if you know anything of the Scriptures. Now, go back and open your Bible in Jeremiah 30:11 and
hold your tongue from speaking nonsense. You surely need help. :help:

Ben


So lets see you use Jeremiah 30 :11--

30:11 I am with you and will save you,' declares the Lord. 'Though I completely destroy all the nations among which I scatter you, I will not completely destroy you. I will discipline you but only with justice; I will not let you go entirely unpunished.'
And i will use just this one for now--

Isa 14:2 -Nations will take them and bring them to their own place. And the house of Israel will possess the nations as menservants and maidservants in the Lord's land. They will make captives of their captors and rule over their oppressors.
Wait a minute! you quote Jeremiah and your statement in the last post is saying God is going to annihilate the nations and only chastise Israel

Now is God contradicting himself? Is He going to completly annihilate the nations in one breath and then in another the nations will be bringing back His people to their own place? Hmmm. Is God a liar or does one of us lack scriptural spiritual understanding? You give the atheists and others a leg to stand on with your beliefs because you make His Word contradict

You are just as bad as the christian denominations--basing your beliefs on a certain scripture or scriptures and not on the WHOLE, should i say it again with emphasis WHOLE, Word of God
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
So lets see you use Jeremiah 30 :11--

30:11 I am with you and will save you,' declares the Lord. 'Though I completely destroy all the nations among which I scatter you, I will not completely destroy you. I will discipline you but only with justice; I will not let you go entirely unpunished.'
And i will use just this one for now--

Isa 14:2 -Nations will take them and bring them to their own place. And the house of Israel will possess the nations as menservants and maidservants in the Lord's land. They will make captives of their captors and rule over their oppressors.
Wait a minute! you quote Jeremiah and your statement in the last post is saying God is going to annihilate the nations and only chastise Israel

Now is God contradicting himself? Is He going to completly annihilate the nations in one breath and then in another the nations will be bringing back His people to their own place? Hmmm. Is God a liar or does one of us lack scriptural spiritual understanding? You give the atheists and others a leg to stand on with your beliefs because you make His Word contradict

You are just as bad as the christian denominations--basing your beliefs on a certain scripture or scriptures and not on the WHOLE, should i say it again with emphasis WHOLE, Word of God

You are so pathetic for lack of a better word, that in your anger for being successively rebutted by a Jew, you quote out of context scriptures that don't have anything to do with each other. Try to think before you feedback with nonsense. Paraphrasing Jeremiah 30:11, it goes thus: "Even if I came to the point that it was necessary to destroy all nations among which I have scattered you, I would, but not you, whom I would only punish as you deserve."


Then in Isaiah 14:12, the subject is the nations being used as God's tools to bring the Jews back home, which is exactly what has happened before and is happening now.

When did I say that "God is going to annihilate the nations?" You like to put words in people's mouth which were never in their minds. On the contrary. The presence of the Jewish People in this world is the guarantee that the nations continue in existence.

Ben :rolleyes:
 

AK4

Well-Known Member
You are so pathetic for lack of a better word, that in your anger for being successively rebutted by a Jew,

Anger? Who is the one who made the first offensive statement? I just followed suit which was wrong on my behalf there and i apologise. Successively? Well i am the one using scripture and not my own words to prove one wrong.

you quote out of context scriptures that don't have anything to do with each other.

Oh really. I guess me putting the word WHOLE in that one post had nothing with using the whole Word of God as context instead of just using some to try to make my belief work and besides doesnt this scripture negate the out of context statement--

Isa 28:10 - For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
and also from one of your beloved Paul cronies

2Pe 1:20 - Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation.
Try to think before you feedback with nonsense. Paraphrasing Jeremiah 30:11, it goes thus: "Even if I came to the point that it was necessary to destroy all nations among which I have scattered you, I would, but not you, whom I would only punish as you deserve."


Then in Isaiah 14:12, the subject is the nations being used as God's tools to bring the Jews back home, which is exactly what has happened before and is happening now.

When did I say that "God is going to annihilate the nations?" You like to put words in people's mouth which were never in their minds. On the contrary. The presence of the Jewish People in this world is the guarantee that the nations continue in existence.

Ben :rolleyes:

Completely destoy...annihilate... and i believe you said you believe in a hell (i cant remember fully right now, but i believe you said this)...I dont think thats too far of a stretch. I could be wrong though, but i doubt it.

Now annihilate could of been a too strong of a word but i had took your interpretation of that verse (Jer 30:11) literal like you do with the rest of the Word of God and not spiritual
 

Ben Masada

Well-Known Member
Completely destoy...annihilate... and i believe you said you believe in a hell (i cant remember fully right now, but i believe you said this)...I dont think thats too far of a stretch. I could be wrong though, but i doubt it.

Now annihilate could of been a too strong of a word but i had took your interpretation of that verse (Jer 30:11) literal like you do with the rest of the Word of God and not spiritual


If I said I believe in Hell, I wouldn't be Jewish. Hell as a place of torment was fabricated by Christian crooks in order to play with people's fears, and make
a living out of their naivete.

Ben :rolleyes:
 

Charity

Let's go racing boys !
If I said I believe in Hell, I wouldn't be Jewish. Hell as a place of torment was fabricated by Christian crooks in order to play with people's fears, and make
a living out of their naivete.

Ben :rolleyes:
Ben Sweetie, Now let me tell you about a living hell....scripture tells us that "Hell hath no fury like that of a woman scorned" :p And for God's sake don't refuse her cookies.....:D
 

AK4

Well-Known Member
If I said I believe in Hell, I wouldn't be Jewish. Hell as a place of torment was fabricated by Christian crooks in order to play with people's fears, and make
a living out of their naivete.

Ben :rolleyes:

Okay, we have at least one thing i think we can agree on.:)
 
Top