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Past lives and reincarnation
- Thread starter Draka
- Start date
Master Vigil
Well-Known Member
Supposedly I am from a long line spirit wolves. Can't prove it, sometimes doubt it, but I can believe it.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
I'll figure it out when I get there 
wa:do
wa:do
Quoth The Raven
Half Arsed Muse
Really? I've never heard that before. Where does it say that?john313 said:
john313
warrior-poet
Thanks, i had to dig for itlady_lazarus said:
.Matthew 11:14 "And if ye will receive [it], this is Elias, which was for to come."
Matthew 17:11-13 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist."
Halcyon
Lord of the Badgers
I though Elijah was prophesised at the end of the OT, and then in the NT they said Elijah had come in the form of John the baptiser? I don't see how it's reincarnation.
There's more 'evidence' for reincarnation than most other spiritual beliefs, one example springs to mind of a woman in india (i think it was india) who woke up one morning speaking a different language and calling herself by a different name, problem was no-one in her village knew what language she was speaking, it was only by chance that a visitor arrived one day that could speak it. People reckon the woman died in her sleep and the soul of someone else happened to be floating past and took up residence in the abandoned body. Weird.
There's more 'evidence' for reincarnation than most other spiritual beliefs, one example springs to mind of a woman in india (i think it was india) who woke up one morning speaking a different language and calling herself by a different name, problem was no-one in her village knew what language she was speaking, it was only by chance that a visitor arrived one day that could speak it. People reckon the woman died in her sleep and the soul of someone else happened to be floating past and took up residence in the abandoned body. Weird.
Dinogrrl
peeb!
I believe there are such things as past lives and such...I believe I have a spirit which was physically alive in the past. However...she is not reincarnated. To me, reincarnation implies that the person (or animal, whatever) died. My 'other'-self never died, she was simply...placed into me.
So anyway...hurrah, here's your Christian who believes in past lives. I don't necessarily believe they are a good thing or whatever, but there have you.
So anyway...hurrah, here's your Christian who believes in past lives. I don't necessarily believe they are a good thing or whatever, but there have you.
hi Dinogrrl,Dinogrrl said:
The concept of reincarnation ( as I see it) is that your spirit never dies; it is only the body that dies. The body is just a vehicle for the spirit to 'use' during the present incarnation.
Does that make it easier to understand ?
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
Yes and no.
robtex
Veteran Member
I am a no vote. I don't believe we have a soul but are a bunch of bones brains and meat. When the body dies we die forever. If I did believe in a soul I could see strong merit in the idea of reincarnation as the soul is believed to survive the Body's demise but with the field of medicne and biology have zero evidence that I have found for proof of a soul and knowing that the entire body slowly breaks down after death I can't find a reasonable explaination as to why there is reincarnation.
I know the chemical compounds after death refrom to other things on earth and in that way they are reused but as they are broken down and redistrubted to numerous places I see this as a further arguement against a 2nd shot a life via reincarnation.
Reincarnation certainly has a romantic appeal to it and I have read some awsome poetry, prose and literature with themes of reincarnation in it but in reading non-fiction I find it feasblity non existant.
I know the chemical compounds after death refrom to other things on earth and in that way they are reused but as they are broken down and redistrubted to numerous places I see this as a further arguement against a 2nd shot a life via reincarnation.
Reincarnation certainly has a romantic appeal to it and I have read some awsome poetry, prose and literature with themes of reincarnation in it but in reading non-fiction I find it feasblity non existant.
Draka
Wonder Woman
Now you are the one putting things so eloquently Michel. That is exactly how I think. Our bodies are merely physical vehicles for our spirits to take form in and live each life to learn more and experience different ways of life. When this body dies my spirit can chose to be reborn into another and start all over again. In my beliefs this is a requirement to achieve a higher level of understanding before proceeding to any higher plane of existence.
Draka
Wonder Woman
If you have ever lived in a house that has voices and things moving around on their own and see figures walking past you then you would probably be more apt to believe that there is something beyond the physical. I have lived in a haunted house and there is NO scientific explanation for the events in that house so that only leaves supernatural explanations for me.
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
I have time to elaborate now....
I tend to agree with the Buddhist explanations of the soul (atman) and the process of rebirth (samsara). To understand how Buddhists view rebirth, you have to first understand how they view the soul. The Buddhist doctrine of Anatta (no-self) specifies the absence of a permanent and unchanging self or soul (atman). Buddhist teaching tells us that all in life is impermanent and in a constant state of flux, and that any entity that exists does so only in dependence on the conditions of its arising, which are non-eternal. Therefore, any sense one might have of an abiding self or a soul is regarded as a misapprehension.
Buddhists hold that the notion of an abiding self is one of the main causes of human conflict, and that by realizing the nonexistence of our perceived self, 'we' may go beyond 'our' mundane desires. (Reference to 'oneself' or 'I' or 'me' for Buddhists is used merely conventionally.)
While the Buddha himself provided no confirmation the existence of a self or Atman as claimed by philosophers of his time, his teachings were not meant to know an Atman, but to know the fact that all clinging to concepts and ideas of a self are faulty and based on ignorance. The Buddha's teaching was apophatic and was aimed at realizing the truth and not any concept of self created by birth, imagination, speculaton, metaphysical study or through self-ideation. The five aggregates of form, feelings, perceptions, mental fabrications and consciousness were especially important in this regard, since they are the ones an individual forms clinging or cleaving for. Once a monk renounces his clinging for all the five aggregates, through meditative insight, he realizes the bliss of non-clinging, and abides in wisdom. The Buddha clearly states that all five aggregates are impermanent, just as the burning flame is inconstant in one sense, and that knowledge or wisdom is all that remains, just as the only thing constant about a flame is its fuel, or purpose.
According to Buddhism, there is a cycle of death and rebirth that can be transcended by the practice of the Eightfold Path. Within Buddhism, the term rebirth or re-becoming is preferred to "reincarnation", as the latter is taken to imply there is a fixed entity that is reborn. However, this still leaves the question as to what exactly it is that is reborn.
The lack of a fixed self does not mean lack of continuity. One of the metaphors used to illustrate this is that of fire. For example, a flame is transferred from one candle to another, or a fire spreads from one field to another. In the same way that it depends on the original fire, there is a conditioned relationship between one life and the next; they are not identical but neither are they completely distinct. The early Buddhist texts make it clear that there is no permanent consciousness that moves from life to life.
I tend to agree with the Buddhist explanations of the soul (atman) and the process of rebirth (samsara). To understand how Buddhists view rebirth, you have to first understand how they view the soul. The Buddhist doctrine of Anatta (no-self) specifies the absence of a permanent and unchanging self or soul (atman). Buddhist teaching tells us that all in life is impermanent and in a constant state of flux, and that any entity that exists does so only in dependence on the conditions of its arising, which are non-eternal. Therefore, any sense one might have of an abiding self or a soul is regarded as a misapprehension.
Buddhists hold that the notion of an abiding self is one of the main causes of human conflict, and that by realizing the nonexistence of our perceived self, 'we' may go beyond 'our' mundane desires. (Reference to 'oneself' or 'I' or 'me' for Buddhists is used merely conventionally.)
While the Buddha himself provided no confirmation the existence of a self or Atman as claimed by philosophers of his time, his teachings were not meant to know an Atman, but to know the fact that all clinging to concepts and ideas of a self are faulty and based on ignorance. The Buddha's teaching was apophatic and was aimed at realizing the truth and not any concept of self created by birth, imagination, speculaton, metaphysical study or through self-ideation. The five aggregates of form, feelings, perceptions, mental fabrications and consciousness were especially important in this regard, since they are the ones an individual forms clinging or cleaving for. Once a monk renounces his clinging for all the five aggregates, through meditative insight, he realizes the bliss of non-clinging, and abides in wisdom. The Buddha clearly states that all five aggregates are impermanent, just as the burning flame is inconstant in one sense, and that knowledge or wisdom is all that remains, just as the only thing constant about a flame is its fuel, or purpose.
According to Buddhism, there is a cycle of death and rebirth that can be transcended by the practice of the Eightfold Path. Within Buddhism, the term rebirth or re-becoming is preferred to "reincarnation", as the latter is taken to imply there is a fixed entity that is reborn. However, this still leaves the question as to what exactly it is that is reborn.
The lack of a fixed self does not mean lack of continuity. One of the metaphors used to illustrate this is that of fire. For example, a flame is transferred from one candle to another, or a fire spreads from one field to another. In the same way that it depends on the original fire, there is a conditioned relationship between one life and the next; they are not identical but neither are they completely distinct. The early Buddhist texts make it clear that there is no permanent consciousness that moves from life to life.
The Black Whirlwind
Well-Known Member
i think you are reincarnated until you have achieved spiritual fulfillment and then reabsorbed into the force.