Why don't I believe it?

Here's an existential topic for you.

I have never believed anything other than Christianity, and by that, I mean a strong, unwavering faith in Christianity. This does not mean I have never asked questions or closed my mind to other beliefs. Although I am sure that criteria could describe many Christians with 'stubborn' faith.

But I don't think it's stubborn. I feel like I simply understand my faith very well and have yet to find any persuasive arguments against its principles. I find that the only times in life where my faith is shaken, it is not by arguments of wisdom or logic (I'm very reassured to have both of those on my side, actually. My personality is inclined to seek out both constantly.) but by moments of sorrow and grief, personal struggle and loss.

During these times, it can be very difficult to recognize and understand God. But that's personal stuff. When it comes to discussion and debate, I've never really felt wavered or discouraged by people with different perspectives.

Is this a universal thing? Do most of you hold onto your beliefs for the same reasons? Personally, I think it's a key factor in whether or not you HAVE faith: not how stubborn you are, but how confident you are (confidence through experience, I mean).

Or perhaps there are arguments that I am simply closing myself off to. I think after a while being on this forum, you kind of hear them all. This site certainly isn't short on arguments why NOT to believe in Christianity. But so far I've never not known or been able to look up a satisfactory (in my mind) rebuttal.

Just to give an example, being on this forum has SIGNIFICANTLY altered my political views. I've gone from being a fairly ignorant conservative to a most-definitely centrist.

My faith, on the other hand, has gotten stronger the longer I have been here. I'm not sure what the debate is here, but I felt like sharing this. But I think that a site like Religious Forums deserves to be recognized for tempering our beliefs, whatever they are. I know it's also possible for people to just be consistently stubborn, but it doesn't seem like those people stick around for more than a few months, if a few days.

Anyways, tell me about YOUR faith. Has it gotten stronger? Has it changed? Why is it that other arguments have not convinced YOU?

RF has not changed my fundamental convictions, but it has driven me near mad a few times. It is supposed to challenge everything one holds dear anyway, so maybe that's a good thing. The people who don't stick around very long are maybe very sensible, they don't want an internet forum making them unhappy about who they are. No-one can tell you that, anyway. You have to discover yourself alone, but if that involves dialogue and dispute to reconcile, then @ least no-one can say you did it the easy way.

My faith is almost dead. I'm much happier not being particularly religious. I find that Christianity causes me stress. The thought of an omnipotent god watching my every move, hearing my every thought, knowing my future, caused me great discomfort.

My view now is, if there is a god, he's far beyong our understanding and so likely doesn't care much about us... just look at the world and you'll see that. But I find that somewhat comforting. It's made me stand on my own two feet and realise I can achieve things myself. I do not need god to hold my hand through all the petty, insignficant aspects of my mundane existence.

When major bad things happen it makes me humble. It can make me a little more open to suggestion. I used to pray alot more during rough times. Now I turn to those around me for support when something happens. I guess it all depends. Adversity and challenges can make me stronger and form bonds with those who are truly my friends and loved ones. Depression and despair can do the opposite.

My faith has changed.

I look at the bible a little different now.

It took me out of my little " religious box" I was in for so many years.

I don't post that often anymore , but I still read a lot of threads.

I like the posts of .. Dopp, FFH, KATZ, AUTO-, and sometimes midnight (lol) ,the most.

me and rev. rick seem to be on the same side a lot of times also.

O, yeah, I cant forget Victor. ( good stuff!).

Even thou we differ in opinion most of the time, its good to hear the other side of things instead of being surrounded by narrow minded people all the time.

My faith is almost dead. I'm much happier not being particularly religious. I find that Christianity causes me stress. The thought of an omnipotent god watching my every move, hearing my every thought, knowing my future, caused me great discomfort.

My view now is, if there is a god, he's far beyong our understanding and so likely doesn't care much about us... just look at the world and you'll see that. But I find that somewhat comforting. It's made me stand on my own two feet and realise I can achieve things myself. I do not need god to hold my hand through all the petty, insignficant aspects of my mundane existence.

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I think that, in general, religion, by definition, causes stress.

The whole idea of Christianity is that we are imperfect and incapable of living up to the standard that is necessary to escape the curse of death. Literally, it is inescapable. And yet, for some wild reason, even though we are supposed to rely on a loving God to give us the strength necessary, many churches DEMAND that we do our best to live up to the standard that the Bible tells us is IMPOSSIBLE to follow. Absolutely, it's stressful.

Not only that, many churches imply that God hates it when people don't meet the standard, as if he EXPECTS us to achieve the impossible. (I'll tell ya, that's one dumb God if that's true. Imagine punishing a three-legged dog for running slower than the other dogs)

tomspug said:

Why don't I believe it?

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Because there is no reason to.

gods are like money....they are only of some value because we give it value.

I have learned a lot from being on RF. I wasn't really sure what I believed when I started here, but I have very clear ideas on things now. That is not to say that I know everything, but I know what I believe and why I believe it now. It still changes, though, sometimes when a different perspective presents itself in a new way, but, at this point, it's just slight changes, not to the point of any kind of "conversion".

The discussion in RF has helped to strengthened my testimony in the gospel of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The constant need to back up my beliefs has motivated me into more Bible study. That's always good. The scriptures never let me down.
The arguing in RF sometimes sucks me in; which is not good, and I have to always be careful to not offend, nor to be offended. That's a challenge.

it changed my view of religion is useless to religion is just one of the many colours of life

this forum changed my view of the avarage opinions towards my atheism. sadly enough..
For the rest it didn't change my own thoughts really. It only added a lot..

The forum has strengthened my belief. I am at peace with myself and my faith is even stronger. I don't really get angry when someone speaks ill of my God, but it just grieves me in my spirit. Although I am concerned for others, I realize that each person has to work out their own salvation and make their own choices. My ministry includes love, . (and occasionally some friendly nit picking and joking)

I think if coming here has strengthened your faith, Tom, then I honestly couldn't be happier for you. :hug:

As far as me and my own faith, what has changed has been a deeper understanding and appreciation for those outside my relative belief system and paradigm, and finding more connections with these same people and finding that - ultimately - we are much more alike than at first glance.

Finding these connections breaks down the labels and the illusions of divisiveness in my mind, and I can more freely give and take than before when I saw mostly Heather=Buddhist, other=non-Buddhist.

Oh, who am I kidding? I'll just lay it out on the table and say that I'm really only here for the beer.

tomspug said:

I think that, in general, religion, by definition, causes stress.

The whole idea of Christianity is that we are imperfect and incapable of living up to the standard that is necessary to escape the curse of death. Literally, it is inescapable. And yet, for some wild reason, even though we are supposed to rely on a loving God to give us the strength necessary, many churches DEMAND that we do our best to live up to the standard that the Bible tells us is IMPOSSIBLE to follow. Absolutely, it's stressful.

Not only that, many churches imply that God hates it when people don't meet the standard, as if he EXPECTS us to achieve the impossible. (I'll tell ya, that's one dumb God if that's true. Imagine punishing a three-legged dog for running slower than the other dogs)

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school is stressful too, progression, changing, growing, making something of yourself is hard... the point of it all is not to be stressed, the point is to become a better person. refined in the fire - in the fire, but refined... a means to an end - not the end.

Phasmid said:

My faith is almost dead. I'm much happier not being particularly religious. I find that Christianity causes me stress. The thought of an omnipotent god watching my every move, hearing my every thought, knowing my future, caused me great discomfort.

My view now is, if there is a god, he's far beyong our understanding and so likely doesn't care much about us... just look at the world and you'll see that. But I find that somewhat comforting. It's made me stand on my own two feet and realise I can achieve things myself. I do not need god to hold my hand through all the petty, insignficant aspects of my mundane existence.

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This is the classical position of a sinner (and the criminal) always looking over his shoulder worrying that authority will catch him in the act and punish him. The law abiding citizen does not have this kind of problem. So if you pretend their aren't any policemen can you be free to rob a store?

I don't know where this view comes from. The message of the cross is that God loves you as much as you can be loved.

What in the world are you looking at? For me I see the wicked being punished and the righteous prospering. There may be some exceptions at least by appearances but the exceptions do not override the rule.

Can the man in quicksand say I have no need of help? Can the person with Cancer say I have no need of healing? The wages of sin is death. Since you are dieing, can you say you have no need for life?

Muffled said:

This is the classical position of a sinner (and the criminal) always looking over his shoulder worrying that authority will catch him in the act and punish him. The law abiding citizen does not have this kind of problem. So if you pretend their aren't any policemen can you be free to rob a store?

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I think the problem comes in when you don't know what to believe is a sin and what's not. Many Christians think homosexuality is a sin, for instance, while many more don't consider it a sin. It's also a matter of not wanting someone looking over your shoulder all the time because it's annoying. Most people don't work well with their boss standing behind them while they do their work. It's usually easier when they can do their work in peace. It has nothing to do with whether or not they're doing the work correctly.

Phasmid said:

My faith is almost dead. I'm much happier not being particularly religious. I find that Christianity causes me stress. The thought of an omnipotent god watching my every move, hearing my every thought, knowing my future, caused me great discomfort.

My view now is, if there is a god, he's far beyong our understanding and so likely doesn't care much about us... just look at the world and you'll see that. But I find that somewhat comforting. It's made me stand on my own two feet and realise I can achieve things myself. I do not need god to hold my hand through all the petty, insignficant aspects of my mundane existence.

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Dude if God was an evil nun with a ruler, then why in the world do Christians consider David to be a man after God's own heart even though he was a murderer and an adulterer? The point of Christianity is not a perfection of self, it is relationship. Think about someone who is a good and wise friend. Now obviously you hang out because you have common interests and things, but occasionally there arises a situation where you might need some help. Luckily your friend has already gone through something similar and so he can give you good advice. He knows the outcome and wants to see you make the best choice. Whether you take it or not is up to you, but in either case your friend will still be there no matter what decision you make. In the same sense God knows everything because He designed it all. Thus Christianity revolves around accepting that love of Jesus and working it out a relationship between the two of you. All God does is suggest a better way of living. Sin was brought into the world so that we would see our need for Him.

Also same analogy. If you never want to hang out with your friend, he will not force himself upon you. Christianity has become a religion not a relationship. For many people, God is not here because they do not ask Him to be. And the second part of your comment gives the reason why you will not ask. Why ask God to help if you can do a better job yourself or if things are alright? Pride and tolerance are two things that will always prevent us living to our potential.

In any case, i hope this helps. And if i misrepresented Christian views, please feel free to correct me.

I am more confused than ever.

Love

Dallas

DallasApple said:

I am more confused than ever.

Love

Dallas

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That must be difficult.

Starfish said:

That must be difficult.

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Maybe, but at least it's honest and open to new possibilities.