Is Hell a Basic Christian Tenet?

[Quagmire]

Hmmm, typical witty responses,

Why thank you. Allthough I think you're doing yourself a disservice by assuming that if something sounds witty it must not be worth considerring.

but I couldn't help but notice that you dodged the actual evidence that you oh so gently requested in your previous post. So I guess "one or two" quotations wasn't worth responding to after all?

I was a bit baffled as to why you would answer this;

And what's with "again"? Far as I can see the post I responded to was the first post you'd made in this thread. Do you really expect everyone in these forums to have read and remembered every post you've ever made in every thread?

Just a tad narcisistic, don't you think?

with this;

Maybe I should have just posted a link.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hel_bibl.htm

And anyway what am I supposed to do with that? You didn't give me one or two examples, you gave me like 4 pages of stuff to sift through.

If you want to go back and select a few examples that you believe back your point up from the site you linked, have at it.

Otherwise you're just passing the buck.

In any case, I never requesting your evidence, I was just making fun of your debating style because hey, what else am I going to do with it?

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

Does a Christian need to believe in hell?

Well, if you accept the Apostles' Creed (which I thought Episcopalians/Anglicans did?) then yes, you would need to; Hell/Hades is mentioned explicitly, as is the judgement by Christ at the end of the world.

 

[Calabrese]

was Jesus insane?


we see at least 3 things here.

1. Hell is a real place.
2. there is torment there.
3. there is a flame ( or fire).[/quote]

Did you speak to Jesus personally?

 

[Calabrese]

26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.


thats not permanent?

As the verse you are quoting is Luke 16:26 from the New Testament, you just disproved your own point.

 

[logician]

IF a Christian says and/or believes in the apostles creed, they have to believe in a hell, unless they don't believe what they are saying.

 

[lilithu]

IF a Christian says and/or believes in the apostles creed, they have to believe in a hell, unless they don't believe what they are saying.

You mean because of the part about descending into hell? What if they believe in hell but they don't believe that it's a permanent place? Or that it's full of flames and such?

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

You mean because of the part about descending into hell? What if they believe in hell but they don't believe that it's a permanent place? Or that it's full of flames and such?

Then the title of the thread should be changed to "Is Eternal Punishment A Basic Christian Tenet?"

 

[CheeryKiara]

Do Christians need to beleive in a Hell? Isn't that the question of the millenium (ever since Dante wrote that danged depressing novel...)

Obviously some Christians don't beleive in Hell, to the point where they get the "eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die" complex while others hold on to the hellfire and brimstone theory so tightly that they can't help but feel morally obligated to point out EVERY LITTLE MISTAKE that others around them make (we others can get pretty annoyed with this).

But I'm being extreme.

My personal beleif (and I realize you didn't ask for it) is that Hell is many different things. Not in the sense that it's what you think it is, but for instance, how would you feel if you got to heaven and you met a little chinese farmer. He tells you that he spent every hour of every day in a rice paddy, working to feed his family, but if he had had the chance, he would have used his time on Earth to change the world and make it better. He goes on about all the things he dreamed of doing, and all the things he would have done, if he could've, and you know he's telling the truth. Then he asks you "what did you do with you time?" And you realize that you wasted your entire life...playing video games or whatever. You never helped anyone, you never changed anything, you just existed. And you have to live the rest of eternity with this knowledge. That every soul is of infinite worth, and you assisted none of them. Is this not Hell?

I have a billion more examples of different types of hells you could create for yourself. But for now I think I'll just leave with a cheerio and a FOR HEAVEN SAKES, MAN! GO HELP A RICE FARMER!!!

:drool:

 

[Quagmire]

Do Christians need to beleive in a Hell? Isn't that the question of the millenium (ever since Dante wrote that danged depressing novel...)

Obviously some Christians don't beleive in Hell, to the point where they get the "eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die" complex while others hold on to the hellfire and brimstone theory so tightly that they can't help but feel morally obligated to point out EVERY LITTLE MISTAKE that others around them make (we others can get pretty annoyed with this).

But I'm being extreme.

My personal beleif (and I realize you didn't ask for it) is that Hell is many different things. Not in the sense that it's what you think it is, but for instance, how would you feel if you got to heaven and you met a little chinese farmer. He tells you that he spent every hour of every day in a rice paddy, working to feed his family, but if he had had the chance, he would have used his time on Earth to change the world and make it better. He goes on about all the things he dreamed of doing, and all the things he would have done, if he could've, and you know he's telling the truth. Then he asks you "what did you do with you time?" And you realize that you wasted your entire life...playing video games or whatever. You never helped anyone, you never changed anything, you just existed. And you have to live the rest of eternity with this knowledge. That every soul is of infinite worth, and you assisted none of them. Is this not Hell?

I have a billion more examples of different types of hells you could create for yourself. But for now I think I'll just leave with a cheerio and a FOR HEAVEN SAKES, MAN! GO HELP A RICE FARMER!!!

:drool:

Lol! Good points Cherry, and welcome to RF.

Fact is, many, many people are in the exact kind of hell you described right now and don't even know it.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

was Jesus insane?


we see at least 3 things here.

1. Hell is a real place.
2. there is torment there.
3. there is a flame ( or fire).[/ quote]

Did you speak to Jesus personally?

Do Christians need to beleive in a Hell? Isn't that the question of the millenium (ever since Dante wrote that danged depressing novel...)

Obviously some Christians don't beleive in Hell, to the point where they get the "eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die" complex while others hold on to the hellfire and brimstone theory so tightly that they can't help but feel morally obligated to point out EVERY LITTLE MISTAKE that others around them make (we others can get pretty annoyed with this).

But I'm being extreme.

My personal beleif (and I realize you didn't ask for it) is that Hell is many different things. Not in the sense that it's what you think it is, but for instance, how would you feel if you got to heaven and you met a little chinese farmer. He tells you that he spent every hour of every day in a rice paddy, working to feed his family, but if he had had the chance, he would have used his time on Earth to change the world and make it better. He goes on about all the things he dreamed of doing, and all the things he would have done, if he could've, and you know he's telling the truth. Then he asks you "what did you do with you time?" And you realize that you wasted your entire life...playing video games or whatever. You never helped anyone, you never changed anything, you just existed. And you have to live the rest of eternity with this knowledge. That every soul is of infinite worth, and you assisted none of them. Is this not Hell?

I have a billion more examples of different types of hells you could create for yourself. But for now I think I'll just leave with a cheerio and a FOR HEAVEN SAKES, MAN! GO HELP A RICE FARMER!!!

:drool:

Two newcomers in one thread! Welcome! :yes:

(Clearly, we need more hell threads. )

 

[lilithu]

Then the title of the thread should be changed to "Is Eternal Punishment A Basic Christian Tenet?"

Why, would that change your answer?

 

[sojourner]

Well, if you accept the Apostles' Creed (which I thought Episcopalians/Anglicans did?) then yes, you would need to; Hell/Hades is mentioned explicitly, as is the judgement by Christ at the end of the world.

Where?

Apostles' Creed (BCP pg. 96)
"He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven..."

Says nothing about hell.

Nicene Creed (BCP pg. 358)

"For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures;..."

Again, nothing about hell.

What does "judgment," (as mentioned in the Apostles' Creed) have to do with sending someone to hell?

(The Apostles' Creed does mention "hell" in the antiquated language of the 1928 BCP language, which is reflected in the Rite I Service of the Daily Office of the 1979 BCP, but the more widely-used and accepted Rite II Service [as quoted above] does not mention "hell." and it is not mentioned in any case, in the Nicene Creed, which is the customary Creed used for Eucharist.)

This reflects a broad acceptable range of belief for the Episcopalian. The Creeds are a guide, not a contract for belief.

 

[joeboonda]

Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[joeboonda]

Matthew 18:6
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

 

[sojourner]

Sin is also mentioned numerous times. Multiple attestation does not make it a basic tenet of Christianity. The basic tenet of Xy is "Love God; love neighbor."

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

The concept of hell is so vast we cannot even begin to grasp it. But some Christians think they have it all figured out, and yet, they get mad when someone contradicts them... I will give you a hint, if you get mad when someone confronts you, then you are fooling yourself. C´mon are you going to show me some of the scriptures? I have already read them, show me something of your own...

 

[wizanda]

if you get mad when someone confronts you, then you are fooling yourself.

What if you get mad as the misunderstandings of goats and sheep are funny, yet also annoying, when you are trying to help them>?
Doesn't help if they keep calling us Racca.....

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

What if you get mad as the misunderstandings of goats and sheep are funny, yet also annoying, when you are trying to help them>?
Doesn't help if they keep calling us Racca.....

I just google "racca", and I got
" Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Contractors Association"

 

[Quagmire]

I just google "racca", and I got
" Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Contractors Association"

Yes, it's well known that Jesus had a problem with those people, air conditioning maintanance in ancient Judea being what it was.

(Actually it's spelled "raca")

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

Why, would that change your answer?

No, but it would at least refine exactly what we're talking about.