When does the body receive the soul?

[darkpenguin]

You receive your soul the moment you concretize the experience of pleasure and pain into a subject. You receive your soul upon becoming aware of your own being.

I'm with you on that one.

 

[darkpenguin]

OK, so most everyone is in agreement that the soul is part of you before birth. So if a child dies before being born, will they exist in an afterlife?

Seeing from my point of view I would say yes as energy is always being transfered and recycled and is never lost in circulation.
Even without self-awarness it's still life energy thats not come to be.

 

[Reverend Rick]

So the next logical step would be a mother could meet her unborn child she aborted in heaven.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

So the next logical step would be a mother could meet her unborn child she aborted in heaven.

Here's the question, though. If we assume that the soul exists as an energy form, what would be the nature of this energy? Would there be a physical burden of something that happened in a different state? Even assuming that the soul is a mental construct that can somehow survive the death of the physical basis, will it hold the same psychological sin that it suffered in life?

Will the energy/mental construct of the unborn baby hold a grudge?

Will the energy/mental construct of the mother feel guilty?

Or will they simply acknowledge each other as beings that once had physical ties?

(This is something I think about a lot, actually, though not in terms of abortion.)

 

[Reverend Rick]

Here's the question, though. If we assume that the soul exists as an energy form, what would be the nature of this energy? Would there be a physical burden of something that happened in a different state? Even assuming that the soul is a mental construct that can somehow survive the death of the physical basis, will it hold the same psychological sin that it suffered in life?

Will the energy/mental construct of the unborn baby hold a grudge?

Will the energy/mental construct of the mother feel guilty?

Or will they simply acknowledge each other as beings that once had physical ties?

(This is something I think about a lot, actually, though not in terms of abortion.)

Right, it could be a miscarriage as well. We all hope to see our grandparents, parents, spouses, children, grandchildren, friends and coworkers again in heaven so I hope we all know who we are and retain memories of earth.

There is suppose to be no pain or jealousy in heaven because we are spiritual beings, (except the Jesus issue and his physical body). We get new bodies in heaven.

I would love to hear someone comment on people who either progress to heaven (ala LDS belief) or are forgiven before death of terrible crimes and get to go to heaven because they were saved after the fact.

I understand that widows who remarry will not have problems with multiple husbands in heaven, but try to imagine this:

Perhaps you are murdered and raped repetitively as well as mutilated at the tender age of 4 years old. I cannot imagine seeing your aggressor in heaven with you and not being upset by this. You could say you won't remember, but would that mean we do not have a memory in heaven?

 

[doppelganger]

So the next logical step would be a mother could meet her unborn child she aborted in heaven.

Not necessarily. If the soul is understood as self-awareness - the concretizing of the experience of pleasure/pain/privation as a subject - then it ceases to be with the expiration of neurons to carry the experience of pleasure/pain/privation.

 

[Polaris]

The Hebrew for "living being" is nephesh haya, which refers to breath. In the biblical creation view, we are not living beings until we draw breath (which is equated with spirit).

You can't really compare the biblical account of the creation of Adam to this discussion. According to the biblical account Adam wasn't formed in a womb. Are you suggesting a fetus is not a living being? A fetus most definitely is a living being. Have you ever seen an ultrasound of a fetus at even 5 months -- it is definitely a living being. Just because it breaths (ie consumes oxygen) differently doesn't make it non-living. Since life doesn't exist without the spirit, a fetus has a spirit and is therefore a living soul.

 

[Polaris]

So the next logical step would be a mother could meet her unborn child she aborted in heaven.

Yes. I believe so.

I would love to hear someone comment on people who either progress to heaven (ala LDS belief)

Ulitmately God will be the one to decide if someone who has committed serious sin, has sufficiently repented to worthily gain entrance into heaven. (I'm not sure if that's what you were looking for)

 

[Reverend Rick]

Yes. I believe so.



Ulitmately God will be the one to decide if someone who has committed serious sin, has sufficiently repented to worthily gain entrance into heaven. (I'm not sure if that's what you were looking for)

That helps, thanks

 

[Reverend Rick]

To the top [/shamelessness]

 

[McBell]

Since life doesn't exist without the spirit, a fetus has a spirit and is therefore a living soul.

So how do you explain which soul gets preference at conception?

 

[FFH]

OK, so most everyone is in agreement that the soul is part of you before birth. So if a child dies before being born, will they exist in an afterlife?

Yes, and they will be raised in heaven, just as if they had been raised on earth.

I know, I know, but they are still in the womb, one might say...

Is it too radical to think that God can raise an infant at any stage in it's developement ???

With God nothing is impossible...

I've also heard that the mother when she dies will continue to raise her children that she lost before or after child birth...

That's Joseph Smith's opinion on the matter...

I've heard both.

1) God or Christ raises these unborn and born children
2) Natural mother raises these unborn and born children after she dies.

There is no such thing as time in God's presence, so mothers can begin where they left off on earth, raising these children...according to revelation given to Joseph Smith, unless their mothers were not worthy of heaven, in that case I think these children will be given to God or Christ to raise to adulthood...

Sounds radical I know, but do you have a better explanation ???

There is always the explanation that all spirits who have died in the womb or before reaching adulthood, will automatically appear as adult spirits in heaven...

I have heard too many NDE (Near Death Experiences) which testify that this is not the case, although we will all reach adulthood and then stop aging....

Everyone in heaven is in their prime of life, as observed on earth...

 

[Don Penguinoini]

When you make your first breath?

 

[Im42nut2]

We are spiritual beings sharing our energies with the universal spirit which surrounds us and with each other. There is no such thing as this singular world/galaxy/universe. We each manifest our bodies/worlds totally within our own spirits.

Therefore: We were souls (our mothers gave up the spiritual energies which became us) before the body became manifested.

 

[Im42nut2]

If the baby dies before it is born, the mother's energy she was going to give up just stays with her. It's as if there never was a conception as far as her spirit is concerned.

 

[McBell]

If the baby dies before it is born, the mother's energy she was going to give up just stays with her. It's as if there never was a conception as far as her spirit is concerned.

Then there would be no problem with abortion from a soul standpoint, right?

 

[lilithu]

If you do not believe you have a soul. Please do not post in this thread.

My question is, When do you receive your soul? At conception or after your born, when?

I do believe I have a soul. It was not given to me. It is the product of the choices that I have made throughout my life time (and possibly before).


"If there is a soul, it is a mistake to believe that it is given us fully created. it is created here, throughout a whole life. And living is nothing else but that long and painful bringing forth."

- Albert Camus

 

[Quiddity]

At the moment of conception. Awareness, choice, pleasure, pain, is all irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. As I see it, thats just man's attempt to apply "value" to human life. Yeah, I do the same thing, but the difference is that I do it outside of all those things I mentioned.

 

[lilithu]

At the moment of conception. Awareness, choice, pleasure, pain, is all irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. As I see it, thats just man's attempt to apply "value" to human life. Yeah, I do the same thing, but the difference is that I do it outside of all those things I mentioned.

It's unclear to me how the difference is significant.

It seems to me that you are saying that because (you believe) the soul is given at the moment of conception, that means that life is valuable at the moment of conception. Is this correct? If so, aren't you also applying a value to human life? Why is basing it on the presence of the soul significantly different from basing it on the presence of awareness, etc? In either case, it's something acquired at some time, right?

 

[Quiddity]

It seems to me that you are saying that because (you believe) the soul is given at the moment of conception, that means that life is valuable at the moment of conception. Is this correct? If so, aren't you also applying a value to human life?

Right, I mentioned that in my post:
Yeah, I do the same thing...

Why is basing it on the presence of the soul significantly different from basing it on the presence of awareness, etc? In either case, it's something acquired at some time, right?

Yes, but as I see it, awareness in a person isn't necessary for most of us to stomach the ending of a life of someone who appears to not have any [developed fetus, certain mental disabilies, infant, adults in vegatative states, etc.].