What does John 5 say about the current and future status of Jesus Christ in relation to God, the resurrection and judgement, and life everlasting?

[Bthoth]

In John 5 Jesus Christ expresses several aspects about himself:

1. His relation to his spiritual Father (God)
2. Being granted authority to judge the world by the Father
3. Being granted by the Father to give everlasting life to believers at the end of time
4. That he, Jesus, can only do what the Father shows Him doing and that though the Father has shown him many great things, thd Father Will show him even greater things so that mankind will be amazed

Jesus Christ, the Son of man, will judge the world, give life to believers, and do many [more] amazing things in union with mankind who are saved out of the world.

What is your take on John 5 and what anomalies do you discern about what Jesus says versus what traditional beliefs teach about Jesus being Almighty God?

That is the chapter where jesus speaks of another.

 

[Homoousios]

In John 5 Jesus Christ expresses several aspects about himself:

1. His relation to his spiritual Father (God)
2. Being granted authority to judge the world by the Father
3. Being granted by the Father to give everlasting life to believers at the end of time
4. That he, Jesus, can only do what the Father shows Him doing and that though the Father has shown him many great things, thd Father Will show him even greater things so that mankind will be amazed

Jesus Christ, the Son of man, will judge the world, give life to believers, and do many [more] amazing things in union with mankind who are saved out of the world.

What is your take on John 5 and what anomalies do you discern about what Jesus says versus what traditional beliefs teach about Jesus being Almighty God?

I do not see any anomalies discerning what Jesus says nor his divine nature.

 

[Soapy]

I do not see any anomalies discerning what Jesus says nor his divine nature.

Please tell me more about what you believe.

 

[Homoousios]

Please tell me more about what you believe.

I’m Catholic. Religiously that’s all I believe.

 

[Soapy]

I’m Catholic. Religiously that’s all I believe.

What does being Catholic mean to you, religiously?

 

[Homoousios]

What does being Catholic mean to you, religiously?

I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father; through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven, and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets. I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen.
With firm faith, I also believe everything contained in the word of God, whether written or handed down in Tradition, which the Church, either by a solemn judgment or by the ordinary and universal Magisterium, sets forth to be believed as divinely revealed.

I also firmly accept and hold each and everything definitively proposed by the Church regarding teaching on faith and morals.

Moreover, I adhere with religious submission of will and intellect to the teachings which either the Roman Pontiff or the College of Bishops enunciate when they exercise their authentic Magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim these teachings by a definitive act.

 

[Soapy]

I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father; through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven, and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets. I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen.
With firm faith, I also believe everything contained in the word of God, whether written or handed down in Tradition, which the Church, either by a solemn judgment or by the ordinary and universal Magisterium, sets forth to be believed as divinely revealed.

I also firmly accept and hold each and everything definitively proposed by the Church regarding teaching on faith and morals.

Moreover, I adhere with religious submission of will and intellect to the teachings which either the Roman Pontiff or the College of Bishops enunciate when they exercise their authentic Magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim these teachings by a definitive act.

You make a good ‘slave’… now if only what you are slave to were the truth!!!

 

[Homoousios]

You make a good ‘slave’… now if only what you are slave to were the truth!!!

What is your truth?

 

[Soapy]

What is your truth?

That Jesus Christ is not GOD Almighty.

That there is no such thing as a Trinity [of or in God].

That Jesus did not ‘Come from Heaven’.

That the Spirit of God is not GOD …..

That the rest of what you quoted is true.

That the best lies are 95% truth….

That Satan speaks that 95% truth then fools his listeners with the 5% lie.

You need to understand what that 5% lies are - then you will understand what the full truth is - and you will rejoice in that moment - or fall in the fear of what you formerly thought was true!!

• “You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached—how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.” (Acts 10:37-38)

What do you say to the verse above? What do you believe about it?

And what do you say about this verse:

• “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.” (Isaiah 42:1)

Please give as good an answer as you can to these two questions … what they say and what they mean to you.

 

[Homoousios]

That Jesus Christ is not GOD Almighty.

That there is no such thing as a Trinity [of or in God].

That Jesus did not ‘Come from Heaven’.

That the Spirit of God is not GOD …..

That the rest of what you quoted is true.

That the best lies are 95% truth….

That Satan speaks that 95% truth then fools his listeners with the 5% lie.

You need to understand what that 5% lies are - then you will understand what the full truth is - and you will rejoice in that moment - or fall in the fear of what you formerly thought was true!!

• “You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached—how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.” (Acts 10:37-38)

What do you say to the verse above? What do you believe about it?

And what do you say about this verse:

• “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.” (Isaiah 42:1)

Please give as good an answer as you can to these two questions … what they say and what they mean to you.

Acts: 36-38 talks about the anointing of Jesus as the Messiah.

Isaiah 42:1 describes the mission of the servant of the Lord. Which, in Matthew 12:18-21, is fulfilled by Christ. And a beautiful fact is Matthew uses the word ‘pais’ which means servant AND son.

You argue against Christ’s divinity which leads me to ask you a few questions…

1. In John 1:1, is John referring to Jesus? If so, what is he saying about Jesus?
2. Who is ‘I Am’?
3. Are there any attributes that Jesus and God share that are only attributed to God?
4. What did the early church fathers teach about the trinity? (Side note: If the opinions of the early church fathers do not matter then I would have to ask you, how you can even trust in a religion perverted since the beginning?)

 

[Soapy]

Acts: 36-38 talks about the anointing of Jesus as the Messiah.

Isaiah 42:1 describes the mission of the servant of the Lord. Which, in Matthew 12:18-21, is fulfilled by Christ. And a beautiful fact is Matthew uses the word ‘pais’ which means servant AND son.

A great Servant is ‘as good’ as a Son.
A Son, while he is in training, is ‘As Good’ as a Servant.
And, yes, I already knew the term applied to both Servant and Son. It’s irrelevant in this case since another revelation would be:

• ‘And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.’

God grew in wisdom and stature and in favour with God and man?

You argue against Christ’s divinity which leads me to ask you a few questions…

1. In John 1:1, is John referring to Jesus? If so, what is he saying about Jesus?

John 1:1 speaks about the Spirit of God - not Jesus: ‘In the beginning God spoke a word and it was that word that created all things. And nothing was created except by that word‘ And that word was:

• ‘Let there be light!!’

2. Who is ‘I Am’?

‘I am’ is an ENGLISH PHRASE… a declaration of existence. By itself it also declares an eternal existence. It is NOT A NAME in itself. Where a NAME comes into play is when God spoke of himself as being an eternal selfsame unchanging entity… a constant immutable Being:

• ‘I am that I am’ (I have always been and will always be)

So God made a NAME for Himself (He prior to the encounter with Moses, did not NEED A NAME since he was an ONLY GOD. A name is only required for any entity IF THERE ARE MANY of the same… The name identifies the INDIVIDUAL) God gave himself a name BECAUSE the children of Israel DEMANDED a distinguishment between the MANY PAGAN GODS and the ONE GOD they were to believe in:

• ‘Hear, O Israel, YHWH, your God is your ONLY GOD’

In HEBREW the term, ‘I AM’, is not a name… it is a single word which CARRIES the meaning of ‘I Am’!! No one goes around speaking of themself by the MEANING of their name. Consider the name ‘Peter’ which carries the MEANING of ‘The Rock’ (or ‘The Stone’). What is to be said of these two verses:

• ‘The PETER that followed the children of Israel in the wilderness WAS CHRIST’?
• ‘The PETER that the builders cast away became the cornerPeter’

The verse concerning Jesus saying the WORDS ‘I am’ is simply that…,’I am’, the present participial of the verb, ‘To be’…
Jesus did not, was not, saying:

• ‘Before Abraham, I was’
• ‘Before Abraham, I am’
• ‘Before Abraham, I will be’

The scriptural term, ‘Before’, means ‘Ahead of’, ‘Greater than’, ‘Prior in authority’. Jesus spoke only the truth, the response, to the question the Jews asked him:

• ‘Are you GREATER than … Abraham?’

Jesus answered:

• ‘Greater in authority than Abraham, I am’!

Jesus qualified his claim Bible Hub stating what the Jews all knew:

• ‘Abraham foresaw MY DAY and was greatly pleased!’

… in that God promised Abraham that the great messiah would come from HIS LOINS…

How would the great messiah come from the loins of Abraham if the messiah already existed?

3. Are there any attributes that Jesus and God share that are only attributed to God?

That’s a silly question. Do you mean ‘Are there any attributes that God alone has that are not attributed to Jesus?’

The answer is ‘YES’:

1. God alone dwells in un… light
2. God is the Ancient of Days
3. God always is… Jesus changes many times in his life
4. God alone OWNS the Spirit of Holiness. Allowing others to USE the Spirit of Holiness does not make a claim of ownership by those who use it. The Spirit of holiness is THE FATHER’S HOLY SPIRIT which He pours out onto those who love Him:
   1. ‘In the last days I WILL POUR OUT MY SPIRIT on all peoples…’, says the Lord God (Acts 2:17)

4. What did the early church fathers teach about the trinity? (Side note: If the opinions of the early church fathers do not matter then I would have to ask you, how you can even trust in a religion perverted since the beginning?)

The early church fathers did not teach a trinity. The trinity came about due to Hellenistic Jews tried to create a doctrine of their own when they found if difficult to convert pagan people and nations. These pagans believed in many Gods and refused to easily be covered to a ‘God’ who did everything ALONE. Hellenised Jews were no strangers to the great Greek mythologies which taught of many Gods sin doc whom orocreated with human women to create Demi-Gods… Part God and part man. It would be far easier to convert these by claiming that the Jesus they were teaching them about was such a deity / even easier if the Son came from THE GODS… Norse mythology speaks of THOR as being such a Demi-deity!!! Egyptians Pharoahs, of course, already claim they were offspring of the gods.
There were many groups who jumped on the ‘z Jesus’ bandwagon and tried and taught a ‘Different Jesus’ just as Jesus Christ told the disciples would happen! Which means you are calling Jesus Christ ‘a liar!!’

 

[Homoousios]

A great Servant is ‘as good’ as a Son.
A Son, while he is in training, is ‘As Good’ as a Servant.
And, yes, I already knew the term applied to both Servant and Son. It’s irrelevant in this case since another revelation would be:

• ‘And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.’

God grew in wisdom and stature and in favour with God and man?

To start, I didn't claim it had any relevancy to the passage. And seeing as Jesus is God made man, then technically your quote of Luke 2:52 would be correct, only in understanding that the Son is performing said acts, not the Father. The human development of Jesus was a process of growing as a human in character and experience. At the end his life as a man was a perfect reflection of his divine Sonship. Do you happen to know what the term 'Ho Theos" applies to?

John 1:1 speaks about the Spirit of God - not Jesus: ‘In the beginning God spoke a word and it was that word that created all things. And nothing was created except by that word‘ And that word was:

• ‘Let there be light!!’

So this Word created all things? So you are affirming that said Word is God? Because it is God who created all things. And is it this Word who is the Son of the Father?

‘I am’ is an ENGLISH PHRASE… a declaration of existence. By itself it also declares an eternal existence. It is NOT A NAME in itself. Where a NAME comes into play is when God spoke of himself as being an eternal selfsame unchanging entity… a constant immutable Being:

• ‘I am that I am’ (I have always been and will always be)

So God made a NAME for Himself (He prior to the encounter with Moses, did not NEED A NAME since he was an ONLY GOD. A name is only required for any entity IF THERE ARE MANY of the same… The name identifies the INDIVIDUAL) God gave himself a name BECAUSE the children of Israel DEMANDED a distinguishment between the MANY PAGAN GODS and the ONE GOD they were to believe in:

• ‘Hear, O Israel, YHWH, your God is your ONLY GOD’

In HEBREW the term, ‘I AM’, is not a name… it is a single word which CARRIES the meaning of ‘I Am’!! No one goes around speaking of themself by the MEANING of their name. Consider the name ‘Peter’ which carries the MEANING of ‘The Rock’ (or ‘The Stone’). What is to be said of these two verses:

• ‘The PETER that followed the children of Israel in the wilderness WAS CHRIST’?
• ‘The PETER that the builders cast away became the cornerPeter’

The verse concerning Jesus saying the WORDS ‘I am’ is simply that…,’I am’, the present participial of the verb, ‘To be’…
Jesus did not, was not, saying:

• ‘Before Abraham, I was’
• ‘Before Abraham, I am’
• ‘Before Abraham, I will be’

The scriptural term, ‘Before’, means ‘Ahead of’, ‘Greater than’, ‘Prior in authority’. Jesus spoke only the truth, the response, to the question the Jews asked him:

• ‘Are you GREATER than … Abraham?’

Jesus answered:

• ‘Greater in authority than Abraham, I am’!

Jesus qualified his claim Bible Hub stating what the Jews all knew:

• ‘Abraham foresaw MY DAY and was greatly pleased!’

… in that God promised Abraham that the great messiah would come from HIS LOINS…

How would the great messiah come from the loins of Abraham if the messiah already existed?

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the name 'I Am'. 'I Am' is the translation of the Hebrew ehyeh. In the same passage you quote from Exodus 3:14 'I Am' is used as a noun; "I Am has sent me to you". Jews when reading this passage will NOT say the word "ehyeh" for it is the name of God. Hence, they will say HaShem or Adonai.
Now what does interest me is how you already brought Jesus saying "I AM", and that being "I am" as you put it. Because as it is stated in John 8:58-59 "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.' So they picked up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid and went out of the temple area." Why would the Jews try to stone Jesus? They obviously didn't like what he was saying, but what is it that he said? Was he more than just confirming His position over Abraham?
Jesus did come from the loins of Abraham. You can read it in Matthew that Jesus is a descendent of Abraham. He is literally the son of David and the son of Abraham.

That’s a silly question. Do you mean ‘Are there any attributes that God alone has that are not attributed to Jesus?’

The answer is ‘YES’:

1. God alone dwells in un… light
2. God is the Ancient of Days
3. God always is… Jesus changes many times in his life
4. God alone OWNS the Spirit of Holiness. Allowing others to USE the Spirit of Holiness does not make a claim of ownership by those who use it. The Spirit of holiness is THE FATHER’S HOLY SPIRIT which He pours outonto those who love Him:
   1. ‘In the last days I WILL POUR OUT MY SPIRIT on all peoples…’, says the Lord God (Acts 2:17)

That's not what I asked. However, I do find it quite funny that you try defending claims I haven't brought up (as in your choice of words).
For example, in Revelations 1:8 the term Alpha and Omega "the beginning and the end" (it is also found in Isaiah) is used to describe the Father (God) whereas in 22:13 its used to describe the Son (Jesus). What my question meant is, there are ways to describe God and there are only things that God can do, according to the OT. Do any of these descriptions or acts apply to him as well?

The early church fathers did not teach a trinity. The trinity came about due to Hellenistic Jews tried to create a doctrine of their own when they found if difficult to convert pagan people and nations. These pagans believed in many Gods and refused to easily be covered to a ‘God’ who did everything ALONE. Hellenised Jews were no strangers to the great Greek mythologies which taught of many Gods sin doc whom orocreated with human women to create Demi-Gods… Part God and part man. It would be far easier to convert these by claiming that the Jesus they were teaching them about was such a deity / even easier if the Son came from THE GODS… Norse mythology speaks of THOR as being such a Demi-deity!!! Egyptians Pharoahs, of course, already claim they were offspring of the gods.
There were many groups who jumped on the ‘z Jesus’ bandwagon and tried and taught a ‘Different Jesus’ just as Jesus Christ told the disciples would happen! Which means you are calling Jesus Christ ‘a liar!!’

St. Ignatius of Antioch in his Epistle to the Ephesians (18) says "For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary, in God’s plan being sprung both from the seed of David and from the Holy Spirit."

Justin Martyr in First Apology 13:5–6 states, "We will prove that we worship him reasonably; for we have learned that he is the Son of the true God himself, that he holds a second place, and the Spirit of prophecy a third. For this they accuse us of madness, saying that we attribute to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all things; but they are ignorant of the mystery which lies therein."

St. Irenaeus in Against Heresies 1:10:1 "For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, the Father Almighty . . . and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit." (I would like to point out how he attributes that Jesus became flesh seeing as you believe the Holy Spirit does)

Tertullian, Against Praxeas 2 “We do indeed believe that there is only one God, but we believe that under this dispensation, or, as we say, oikonomia, there is also a Son of this one only God, his Word, who proceeded from him and through whom all things were made and without whom nothing was made. . . . We believe he was sent down by the Father, in accord with his own promise, the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, the sanctifier of the faith of those who believe in the Father and the Son, and in the Holy Spirit”

My brother I believe you have a misunderstanding of the Holy Trinity. We do not believe Jesus is a demi-god, but rather he IS God. My username Homoousios is Greek meaning "of the same substance". This term was officially made doctrine, after the Arian Crisis, at the first Council of Nicea. The later Arians were preaching homoiousios meaning "of similar substance" (I say later because early Arians were more like Gnostics, kind of accepting that view of Jesus as a demi-god that you mentioned earlier). The Church declared this as heresy. Our Nicene Creed was adopted as a result of this.

A question I would have to ask is, how long after the apostles did these "Hellenistic Jews" begin to corrupt the word of God? Because the two biggest and oldest sects (Catholicism and Orthodoxy) have been preaching the Trinity since the beginning. Now, if you want to say that they're lying about having preached it for that long that's fine, but the actions and writings of the early church fathers would disagree.

 

[Soapy]

To start, I didn't claim it had any relevancy to the passage. And seeing as Jesus is God made man, then technically your quote of Luke 2:52 would be correct, only in understanding that the Son is performing said acts, not the Father. The human development of Jesus was a process of growing as a human in character and experience. At the end his life as a man was a perfect reflection of his divine Sonship. Do you happen to know what the term 'Ho Theos" applies to?

So this Word created all things? So you are affirming that said Word is God? Because it is God who created all things. And is it this Word who is the Son of the Father?

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the name 'I Am'. 'I Am' is the translation of the Hebrew ehyeh. In the same passage you quote from Exodus 3:14 'I Am' is used as a noun; "I Am has sent me to you". Jews when reading this passage will NOT say the word "ehyeh" for it is the name of God. Hence, they will say HaShem or Adonai.
Now what does interest me is how you already brought Jesus saying "I AM", and that being "I am" as you put it. Because as it is stated in John 8:58-59 "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.' So they picked up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid and went out of the temple area." Why would the Jews try to stone Jesus? They obviously didn't like what he was saying, but what is it that he said? Was he more than just confirming His position over Abraham?
Jesus did come from the loins of Abraham. You can read it in Matthew that Jesus is a descendent of Abraham. He is literally the son of David and the son of Abraham.

That's not what I asked. However, I do find it quite funny that you try defending claims I haven't brought up (as in your choice of words).
For example, in Revelations 1:8 the term Alpha and Omega "the beginning and the end" (it is also found in Isaiah) is used to describe the Father (God) whereas in 22:13 its used to describe the Son (Jesus). What my question meant is, there are ways to describe God and there are only things that God can do, according to the OT. Do any of these descriptions or acts apply to him as well?

St. Ignatius of Antioch in his Epistle to the Ephesians (18) says "For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary, in God’s plan being sprung both from the seed of David and from the Holy Spirit."

Justin Martyr in First Apology 13:5–6 states, "We will prove that we worship him reasonably; for we have learned that he is the Son of the true God himself, that he holds a second place, and the Spirit of prophecy a third. For this they accuse us of madness, saying that we attribute to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all things; but they are ignorant of the mystery which lies therein."

St. Irenaeus in Against Heresies 1:10:1 "For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, the Father Almighty . . . and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit." (I would like to point out how he attributes that Jesus became flesh seeing as you believe the Holy Spirit does)

Tertullian, Against Praxeas 2 “We do indeed believe that there is only one God, but we believe that under this dispensation, or, as we say, oikonomia, there is also a Son of this one only God, his Word, who proceeded from him and through whom all things were made and without whom nothing was made. . . . We believe he was sent down by the Father, in accord with his own promise, the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, the sanctifier of the faith of those who believe in the Father and the Son, and in the Holy Spirit”

My brother I believe you have a misunderstanding of the Holy Trinity. We do not believe Jesus is a demi-god, but rather he IS God. My username Homoousios is Greek meaning "of the same substance". This term was officially made doctrine, after the Arian Crisis, at the first Council of Nicea. The later Arians were preaching homoiousios meaning "of similar substance" (I say later because early Arians were more like Gnostics, kind of accepting that view of Jesus as a demi-god that you mentioned earlier). The Church declared this as heresy. Our Nicene Creed was adopted as a result of this.

A question I would have to ask is, how long after the apostles did these "Hellenistic Jews" begin to corrupt the word of God? Because the two biggest and oldest sects (Catholicism and Orthodoxy) have been preaching the Trinity since the beginning. Now, if you want to say that they're lying about having preached it for that long that's fine, but the actions and writings of the early church fathers would disagree.

As Shakespeare wrote: ‘As you like it’!!!

And someone else wrote: ‘The truth will out’!!!

 

[Homoousios]

As Shakespeare wrote: ‘As you like it’!!!

And someone else wrote: ‘The truth will out’!!!

Sounds like you don’t really have anything to say. Not surprising. Just so you know, you’re not Christian. Have a nice one though. Hopefully you decide to open your heart to God and accept Him someday.

 

[Soapy]

Sounds like you don’t really have anything to say. Not surprising. Just so you know, you’re not Christian. Have a nice one though. Hopefully you decide to open your heart to God and accept Him someday.

I think you didn’t get my thought… It wasn’t that I hadn’t got anything to say, it’s that I’ve said it too many times before and find it tedious to have to say it again.

Seventy times seventy times I’ve said what I said to you - and I’m taking a rest before embarking on another ‘Seventy times seventy times’.

Just search for ‘Soapy’ posts and see that I am not silent on the matters that matter in this forum!!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Acts: 36-38 talks about the anointing of Jesus as the Messiah.
Isaiah 42:1 describes the mission of the servant of the Lord. Which, in Matthew 12:18-21, is fulfilled by Christ. And a beautiful fact is Matthew uses the word ‘pais’ which means servant AND son.
You argue against Christ’s divinity which leads me to ask you a few questions…
1. In John 1:1, is John referring to Jesus? If so, what is he saying about Jesus?
2. Who is ‘I Am’?
3. Are there any attributes that Jesus and God share that are only attributed to God?
4. What did the early church fathers teach about the trinity? (Side note: If the opinions of the early church fathers do not matter then I would have to ask you, how you can even trust in a religion perverted since the beginning?)

I find Jesus was anointed by his God as Messiah at his baptism.- Luke 3:21-22
So, Jesus is the ' chosen one ' of Isaiah 42:1-7 applied to Jesus at Matthew 12:15-21 chosen at baptism.
Since God sent pre-human heavenly Jesus to earth for us, then 'yes' Jesus is divine, but that does Not make Jesus as God.
John 1 is teaching us that Jesus was "IN" the beginning......
Psalm 90:2 teaches that God had No beginning. God is from everlasting meaning No start No beginning for God.
Thus, Jesus was "IN" the beginning but Not " before " the beginning as his God was.
Why is I Am in the upper-case letter 'A', what verse uses that ____________
Since we are created in God's image then "Yes" there are attributes that we can have that come from God.
Attributes or qualities such as: love, justice, mercy, wisdom, etc. in varying degrees.
Early church fathers began ' after ' the end of the first century, and the warning is given at Acts 20:29-30.
Thus, the apostasy started right after the fist century ended - 2nd Thessalonians 2:3
So, what early church fathers say about a triune god does not necessarily mean found in Scripture.

 

[Soapy]

I find Jesus was anointed by his God as Messiah at his baptism.- Luke 3:21-22
So, Jesus is the ' chosen one ' of Isaiah 42:1-7 applied to Jesus at Matthew 12:15-21 chosen at baptism.
Since God sent pre-human heavenly Jesus to earth for us, then 'yes' Jesus is divine, but that does Not make Jesus as God.
John 1 is teaching us that Jesus was "IN" the beginning......
Psalm 90:2 teaches that God had No beginning. God is from everlasting meaning No start No beginning for God.
Thus, Jesus was "IN" the beginning but Not " before " the beginning as his God was.
Why is I Am in the upper-case letter 'A', what verse uses that ____________
Since we are created in God's image then "Yes" there are attributes that we can have that come from God.
Attributes or qualities such as: love, justice, mercy, wisdom, etc. in varying degrees.
Early church fathers began ' after ' the end of the first century, and the warning is given at Acts 20:29-30.
Thus, the apostasy started right after the fist century ended - 2nd Thessalonians 2:3
So, what early church fathers say about a triune god does not necessarily mean found in Scripture.

John 1:1 does NOT claim that ‘Jesus’ was in the beginning with God…!

John 1:1 says that ‘the word [of God] was in the beginning with God.

If you say something of greatness or a promise of any sort then THAT IS YOUR WORD and that word of yours is ‘With You’ - it is YOUR WORD!!

What people do not understand and do not want to understand is that the word, ‘GOD’ is both a Title, AND an ADJECTIVE… specifically a SUPERLATIVE ADJECTIVE.

Think about the sentence:

• The judge is GOD in his courtroom

What does this sentence mean concerning the judge?

And what about this:

• ‘My word is God’

What does that mean?

So what do you think means:

• ‘My God is God!’ (in reference to someone else’s God)

If you can answer in honesty and in integrity with truth then you will understand what John 1:1 means… and you will know that it does not talk about Jesus at all.

The WORD of the God of the Jews, The WORD of the God of the Israelites, The WORD of the God of Jesus [Christ]… CREATED ALL THINGS…

The one and only true God spoke a word that created all things…:

• ‘Let there be …’

and it was…

And without God’s word nothing was created that was created!!!

There is not a single verse in the scriptures in which JESUS is shown creating anything in the beginning. Every creation verse states GOD speaking the words of creation.

Trinitarians claim that Jesus created all things BY HIMSELF yet there is not even a single verse stating this! But this cannot be because even IF it were true that Jesus were GOD trinity says that GOD is three… how can THREE be a ‘BY HIMSELF’ and also have ONLY ONE carry out the greatest deed in all creation …

Trinitarians try to get away from the conundrum by saying that ‘GOD created all things THROUGH [Jesus]’

But how then does that make Jesus creator of all things BY HIMSELF?

No answer is forthcoming to make this problematic scenario any clearer. In fact Ang and every attempt at trying to clear up the problem only makes the problem worse.

The world was CREATED FOR THE SON … the Son in HUMANITY to rule over. Jesus CHRIST became that Son when God said, ‘This is my Son in whom I am well pleased - MY CHOSEN ONE … ‘

• ‘Behold my SERVANT, my chosen one in whom I delight … I will PUT MY SPIRIT ON HIM… and he will fulfil all my desires…’

Jesus was CHOSEN by God because he REMAINED SINLESS until the time God chose to test him… and eternally afterwards.

GOD desired that the created world be ruled over by one from humanity, made in His image, who remained in His image. The first man, Adam, was meant to be that Son in humanity, but Adam fell to sinfulness by failing to keep a great command that God TESTED him with… The ‘Fruit from the tree’ was not harmful… Eve found that out… It was the FAILURE to keep the command that brought sin - Adam’s sin. If Adam had defied Eve and remained in God’s command then no sin would have been committed - it was to ADAM that God gave the command - not Eve. Never-the-less Eve was punished as well with a various problems. Adam brought great retribution … which is what Jesus gave his life to destroy. And by destroying death and redeeming mankind Jesus becomes the ruler over creation!

 

[Homoousios]

I find Jesus was anointed by his God as Messiah at his baptism.- Luke 3:21-22
So, Jesus is the ' chosen one ' of Isaiah 42:1-7 applied to Jesus at Matthew 12:15-21 chosen at baptism.
Since God sent pre-human heavenly Jesus to earth for us, then 'yes' Jesus is divine, but that does Not make Jesus as God.
John 1 is teaching us that Jesus was "IN" the beginning......
Psalm 90:2 teaches that God had No beginning. God is from everlasting meaning No start No beginning for God.
Thus, Jesus was "IN" the beginning but Not " before " the beginning as his God was.
Why is I Am in the upper-case letter 'A', what verse uses that ____________
Since we are created in God's image then "Yes" there are attributes that we can have that come from God.
Attributes or qualities such as: love, justice, mercy, wisdom, etc. in varying degrees.
Early church fathers began ' after ' the end of the first century, and the warning is given at Acts 20:29-30.
Thus, the apostasy started right after the fist century ended - 2nd Thessalonians 2:3
So, what early church fathers say about a triune god does not necessarily mean found in Scripture.

John 1 is teaching us that Jesus was "IN" the beginning...

Correct… and what does that mean? If “the beginning” is talking about this world then Jesus is lying when He says He was with God before the world in John 17:5.
It also says that Jesus is God or is the Word not God?

Why is I Am in the upper-case letter 'A', what verse uses that

Exodus 3:14 although in most versions of the Bible the whole thing is capitalized.

Early church fathers began ' after ' the end of the first century, and the warning is given at Acts 20:29-30.
Thus, the apostasy started right after the fist century ended - 2nd Thessalonians 2:3

You know who Paul was talking to? The Ephesians. Why? Because they were already preaching false teachings. Ergo, false teachings began before 100 AD. This is seen in Timothy and Revelations as well.

So, what early church fathers say about a triune god does not necessarily mean found in Scripture.

1. It is found in Scripture.
2. We put Scripture together.
3. Traditions aren’t always found in Scripture either that doesn’t mean they’re wrong.

 

[Homoousios]

John 1:1 does NOT claim that ‘Jesus’ was in the beginning with God…!

John 1:1 says that ‘the word [of God] was in the beginning with God.

If you say something of greatness or a promise of any sort then THAT IS YOUR WORD and that word of yours is ‘With You’ - it is YOUR WORD!!

What people do not understand and do not want to understand is that the word, ‘GOD’ is both a Title, AND an ADJECTIVE… specifically a SUPERLATIVE ADJECTIVE.

Think about the sentence:

• The judge is GOD in his courtroom

What does this sentence mean concerning the judge?

And what about this:

• ‘My word is God’

What does that mean?

So what do you think means:

• ‘My God is God!’ (in reference to someone else’s God)

If you can answer in honesty and in integrity with truth then you will understand what John 1:1 means… and you will know that it does not talk about Jesus at all.

The WORD of the God of the Jews, The WORD of the God of the Israelites, The WORD of the God of Jesus [Christ]… CREATED ALL THINGS…

The one and only true God spoke a word that created all things…:

• ‘Let there be …’

and it was…

And without God’s word nothing was created that was created!!!

There is not a single verse in the scriptures in which JESUS is shown creating anything in the beginning. Every creation verse states GOD speaking the words of creation.

Trinitarians claim that Jesus created all things BY HIMSELF yet there is not even a single verse stating this! But this cannot be because even IF it were true that Jesus were GOD trinity says that GOD is three… how can THREE be a ‘BY HIMSELF’ and also have ONLY ONE carry out the greatest deed in all creation …

Trinitarians try to get away from the conundrum by saying that ‘GOD created all things THROUGH [Jesus]’

But how then does that make Jesus creator of all things BY HIMSELF?

No answer is forthcoming to make this problematic scenario any clearer. In fact Ang and every attempt at trying to clear up the problem only makes the problem worse.

The world was CREATED FOR THE SON … the Son in HUMANITY to rule over. Jesus CHRIST became that Son when God said, ‘This is my Son in whom I am well pleased - MY CHOSEN ONE … ‘

• ‘Behold my SERVANT, my chosen one in whom I delight … I will PUT MY SPIRIT ON HIM… and he will fulfil all my desires…’

Jesus was CHOSEN by God because he REMAINED SINLESS until the time God chose to test him… and eternally afterwards.

GOD desired that the created world be ruled over by one from humanity, made in His image, who remained in His image. The first man, Adam, was meant to be that Son in humanity, but Adam fell to sinfulness by failing to keep a great command that God TESTED him with… The ‘Fruit from the tree’ was not harmful… Eve found that out… It was the FAILURE to keep the command that brought sin - Adam’s sin. If Adam had defied Eve and remained in God’s command then no sin would have been committed - it was to ADAM that God gave the command - not Eve. Never-the-less Eve was punished as well with a various problems. Adam brought great retribution … which is what Jesus gave his life to destroy. And by destroying death and redeeming mankind Jesus becomes the ruler over creation!

We don’t believe Jesus created everything by Himself. Like I said you have a gross misunderstanding of the Holy Trinity. Also, when the Word of God becomes flesh, when does the Holy Spirit become flesh?

 

[Soapy]

We don’t believe Jesus created everything by Himself. Like I said you have a gross misunderstanding of the Holy Trinity. Also, when the Word of God becomes flesh, when does the Holy Spirit become flesh?

What are you talking about?

Trinity is so convoluted since it has to keep adjusting itself when it is found to be incoherent, indecipherable, unfathomable in sense and integrity, a complete nonsense dressed in outer garment of truth (that is, though it appears cosher on the outside, it is, in fact, complete codswallop on the inside where things matter…)

Having a gross misunderstanding of the trinity is expressly because trinity has grossly misunderstood what it was originally set out to achieve… in fact, it has done it so well even TRINITY doesn’t understand itself and leaves it to each and everyone calling themself a trinitarian to decide what trinity claims are!!!!