You say that there is a god...

[Quintessence]

I am not convinced about your claim is not even on the same continuum as I doubt your ability to make your own decisions.

Pardon, you structured those two ideas together in a single sentence so I (apparently incorrectly) assumed you wanted these to be considered in tandem with one another. In what ways do you feel they are different? Articulate that for us so as to better understand the intention of the OP, yeah? Might help folks refine or direct ideas they toss in a bit.

I feel like I am being used as a stand in.for someone else. A strawman, if you will.

Huh. Nah, wasn't even thinking about you. Don't know you. Was just thinking generally about folks who feel a need to... how to put it... about folks who get (pre?)occupied with what other folks do and think for whatever reason. There's the good and curious sort of (pre)occupation - where it's motivated by a desire to explore and learn. There's the not so good sort of (pre)occupation too - the sort motivated by a need to assert dominance or be right/correct/pure. Mixes in between and a bit of both are very much a thing too.

 

[ppp]

You don't start out convinced. You start out by questioning the possibility. Then you hear from others what they have experienced and question if that is possible too. If you can open yourself up to these possibilities you might have experiences of your own which begin to support these possibilities. You may end up finding yourself convince by your own experiences.

I appreciate your response, but this is a little too general. I am looking for specifics.

But to respnd to one particular statement. Why do I have to be open to a possibility? I have been convinced that I was wrong about all sorts of positions over the course of my life. Some of the positions were purely intellectual. Some were the resuult of cultural indoctrination. Some were deeply heald beliefs that I did not want to believe were true. The existence of a god doesn't even rate that high on emotional committment for me. I would find it...interesting.

It takes a little faith for you do whatever is required as part of the belief and that you will have experiences which support it.

I began from a point of faith. As well as what I believed at the time to be supporting spiritual experiences. Please ask, rathr than assume, if you would be so kind.

 

[ppp]

Pardon, you structured those two ideas together in a single sentence so I (apparently incorrectly) assumed you wanted these to be considered in tandem with one another.

I am confused. I dont recall making any statement about anyone's capacity make their own decisions about their life.
Just to level set, I said:

You say that there is a god, but irrespective of whether or not there actually is, why should I be convinced that you know or are even capable of knowing such a thing?

I appreciate your willingness to reconsider.

 

[Quintessence]

I am confused. I dont recall making any statement about anyone's capacity make their own decisions about their life.

Sorry, my thought train sometimes get ahead of itself!

When I think about a question like "why should someone accept someone is capable of knowing about the gods?" I think about the implications of that question. It relates to the broader issue of "why should someone accept another is capable of knowledge?" just in general, and knowledge is foundational to making life decisions. I don't see knowledge of the gods as a special case that is distinct in meaningful ways from generally asking "how do we know someone knows something?"

 

[The Hammer]

... why should I be convinced that you know or are even capable of knowing such a thing?

Because I am human and worthy of respect. I mean why would I lie about such an intimate and personal experience, as that of an interaction with the Gods?

Now, should you believe that it is right or true for you just because I believe? Or that you need to believe what I do. Nah.

But I am also not out to convince people to follow my Path.

 

[syo]

You say that there is a god, but irrespective of whether or not there actually is, why should I be convinced that you know or are even capable of knowing such a thing?

Because I'm pagan.

 

[Nakosis]

I appreciate your response, but this is a little too general. I am looking for specifics.

But to respnd to one particular statement. Why do I have to be open to a possibility? I have been convinced that I was wrong about all sorts of positions over the course of my life. Some of the positions were purely intellectual. Some were the resuult of cultural indoctrination. Some were deeply heald beliefs that I did not want to believe were true. The existence of a god doesn't even rate that high on emotional committment for me. I would find it...interesting.

Just point out the way I've found it to work. Doesn't matter so much what specifically you investing belief in. If you can accept the possibility and then immerse yourself in the ideology your mind will start to convince you of the reality.

I began from a point of faith. As well as what I believed at the time to be supporting spiritual experiences. Please ask, rathr than assume, if you would be so kind.

So you didn't experience anything that supported your belief? I suppose I didn't either for the first 17 years.
Were you exposed to any kind of skepticism?
I wasn't. I just assume the problem was me not with all the folks telling me about God's existence.

 

[Quagmire]

Because I have His autograph.

I'll show it to you if you want, but you better hurry, I'm getting ready to put it up on eBay.

 

[The Hammer]

Because I have His autograph.

I'll show it to you if you want, but you better hurry, I'm getting ready to put it up on eBay.

*Optimistic* being this frube back!!!

 

[ppp]

Just point out the way I've found it to work. Doesn't matter so much what specifically you investing belief in. If you can accept the possibility and then immerse yourself in the ideology your mind will start to convince you of the reality.

My point is that I do not have to start off by accepting the possibility. I can compltely and utterly reject the possibility. And then I can be brought to accept the possibility by an intellectually honest critical examination of the facts at hand, and a non-fallacious application of reason. It has happened before many times, and I would be surprised if it does not happen again.

There. Now you have founf it to work a different way than you expect. Will you adjust to the new information? Or are you closed to the possibility.

So you didn't experience anything that supported your belief? I suppose I didn't either for the first 17 years.

Of course, I did. I had a great many experiences that I attributed to the Holy Spirit. But the problem is that the only reason that I had the concept f a Holy Spirit is that I was given that concept by my religion. There was no where independent of people saying that Experience X was the Holy Spirit for me to confirm that any of them new what they were talking about. Nor that I knew what I was talking about.

If all 8 billion people on Earth (including you and me) say that Experience X is an experience of the Holy Spirit, how do we confirm that we are correct?

Were you exposed to any kind of skepticism?

No. I was from a small southern (US) town of 6000 people in the 70s. I knew nothing of skepticism or atheism. I had to derive it on my own.

 

[YmirGF]

God is just a possibility that some people choose to trust in. Probably because doing so works in a positive way for them, in their lives. And if they can do it, so can you. But only if you want it. Otherwise, it's a moot issue.

I've been blessed to meet a few of these folks in recovery. Christian's have been very good to me over the last few years. One 80 year old geezer uses language that would make a trucker blush but he is also a dear person who loves helping others. If anything, they have helped me to understand the importance of community and fellowship, something I had long forgotten,

 

[dybmh]

You say that there is a god, but irrespective of whether or not there actually is, why should I be convinced that you know or are even capable of knowing such a thing?

Because I undertand that God cannot be known intellectually. That shows that I am capable of knowing that there is a god.

 

[dybmh]

Theists have so much detail to talk about, but can't even explain how those details came about.

Name one... I'll try to explain it. If its cumbersome, I'll start a thread and tag-you.

 

[dybmh]

What is a "god," anyway?

Something thing with the power to create, destroy, and inspire.

Now you see why there are so many "gods".

 

[ppp]

Because I undertand that God cannot be known intellectually. That shows that I am capable of knowing that there is a god.

Not even a little bit. It only shows that you can play with words.

 

[dybmh]

Not even a little bit. It only shows that you can play with words.

I can play with words. But that doesn't mean I was playing with them at that moment. Do you understand what I meant?

It means that I, hypothetically, can comprehend something that is supra-rational. And that is what is needed to know that there is a god.

 

[King Phenomenon]

You say that there is a god, but irrespective of whether or not there actually is, why should I be convinced that you know or are even capable of knowing such a thing?

You don’t have to be convinced of anything. It’s your life

 

[ppp]

I can play with words. But that doesn't mean was playing with them at that moment. Do you understand what I meant?

Doesn't mean you werent making Jello with Fruit cocktail eiether. I dont care. Until you can demonstrate something that is positive and definitive and relevant, you are wasting my time.

 

[ppp]

You don’t have to be convinced of anything. It’s your life

As it turns out, I already knew that.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Name one... I'll try to explain it. If its cumbersome, I'll start a thread and tag-you.

No better place to start than the beginning of creation. ;0]

All that info on what one's God did to kickstart humanity and the universe, but no actual foundation or basis on how that particular information came to be known and supported.

It's all typically told in third person as an invented mythological tale or yarn and as one knows, creation stories vary extensively in variety and content as to how everything began in many unlimited and unique ways with detail and clarity that just cannot ever escape that realm of one's imagination and fantasy.