You say that there is a god...

[ppp]

In answer to your question then, God is a personal ontological conclusion that people draw from personal experiences in their life. It wouldn't convince you that God exists, of course, because you don't share those specific experiences and/or conclusions. But that would be my answer to your question in the OP: why should I be convinced that you know God exists?

Essentially, you don't have to be convinced that I have strong objective evidence, because I don't have any.

I am answered.

Thank you! I wish I understood the meaning behind 'ppp' to say the same

I figure I will make it up when ever someone asks me. Today it is... Proficient Pegasus Pilot!

 

[King Phenomenon]

Not good enough.

“And be a simple kind of man
Oh, be something you love and understand
Baby, be a simple kind of man
Oh, won't you do this for me son, if you can?”

 

[sun rise]

You say that there is a god, but irrespective of whether or not there actually is, why should I be convinced that you know or are even capable of knowing such a thing?

There is no reason for you to believe what I say. I certainly was not convinced by others. I was convinced by experiences I had. If you have such experiences you may or may not believe as a result.

As for me, I came to be convinced that there is something beyond ordinary material existence and learned about others from all religions (and SBNR) who had similar experiences who labeled the source with the word "God".

 

[TLK Valentine]

What is a "god," anyway?

 

[sun rise]

What is a "god," anyway?

I once wrote a ditty that goes;

God is a word many define
as a creature made of straw
or perhaps as reverse canine
who from clouds gives down law.

So many claim "God is mine"
or create theological slaw,
I would like to draw a line
and on bad definitions gnaw.

 

[ppp]

“And be a simple kind of man
Oh, be something you love and understand
Baby, be a simple kind of man
Oh, won't you do this for me son, if you can?”

No.

 

[ppp]

There is no reason for you to believe what I say. I certainly was not convinced by others. I was convinced by experiences I had. If you have such experiences you may or may not believe as a result.

As for me, I came to be convinced that there is something beyond ordinary material existence and learned about others from all religions (and SBNR) who had similar experiences who labeled the source with the word "God".

Why label the source "God"? As opposed to "sun rise"?

 

[ppp]

What is a "god," anyway?

That is a moving target. :-D

 

[ppp]

I once wrote a ditty that goes;

God is a word many define
as a creature made of straw
or perhaps as reverse canine
who from clouds gives down law.

So many claim "God is mine"
or create theological slaw,
I would like to draw a line
and on bad definitions gnaw.

I like that ditty. Cute pooch, too

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Sure. "Know" can be a tricky word. In this case I am using it to mean being strongly convinced by non fallacious reasoning and strong enough evidence to reach a rationally justified conclusion.


Cool name, BTW

Well, I don't believe that a rationally justified conclusion is possible for any claim of what objective reality is other than being different from the mind. And no, I am not a metaphyiscal solipsist.

 

[sun rise]

Why label the source "God"? As opposed to "sun rise"?

You're asking a dual vs advaita (non-dual) question. I'm not going down an ontological rabbit hole but from a duality perspective my true essence is divine but it's covered up with "veils" of illusion so I don't experience my true, divine self. So "God" is my true essence that I don't experience and "sun rise" is my apparently separate self.

Or to use a common metaphore, "God" is the ocean and "sun rise" is a drop in the ocean that experiences itself as separate from the ocean.

 

[ppp]

You're asking a dual vs advaita (non-dual) question. I'm not going down an ontological rabbit hole but from a duality perspective my true essence is divine but it's covered up with "veils" of illusion so I don't experience my true, divine self. So "God" is my true essence that I don't experience and "sun rise" is my apparently separate self.

If you don't experience it, then what makes it you? And why call it God?

 

[Quintessence]

If you don't experience it, then what makes it you? And why call it God?

Why not?

You responded to the question "why would you doubt your own experiences?" with "why shouldn't I?"

Do what you want. Others do what they want. Or one can keep asking endless circles of questions because reasons, I guess.

 

[Quintessence]

You say that there is a god, but irrespective of whether or not there actually is, why should I be convinced that you know or are even capable of knowing such a thing?

To add, I would say it's because you don't want to be a jerk.

Part of not being a jerk is respecting the stories, perspectives, and experiences of others as fellow human persons. This doesn't mean you adopt what they do into your own way of life, but it means you accept that cultural diversity exists and aren't a jerk about other people's lives and ways. I mean, the alternative is strutting about all self-superior like and doubting your fellows capacity for knowledge and making their own decisions about what to do with their lives. Which is.... well, it's a thing some humans do I guess. I tend to stay away from those ones.

 

[ppp]

Why not?

You responded to the question "why would you doubt your own experiences?" with "why shouldn't I?"

Do what you want. Others do what they want. Or one can keep asking endless circles of questions because reasons, I guess.

Yippee. You have successfully titted for tatted. Congrats on rebalancing the forum or god or whatever.

 

[Quintessence]

Yippee. You have successfully titted for tatted. Congrats on rebalancing the forum or god or whatever.

? ? ? ? - Quintessence gives you a confused look - ? ? ? ?

 

[sun rise]

If you don't experience it, then what makes it you? And why call it God?

Second question first: why not. I could as someone did call it "that" and point upwards. I could use the Bible and say that He says "I am that I am". I could use "Satchitananda". I use "God" because I was born, raised and live in the US where the common word is "God". And the word "God" is common in spiritual literature.

As to experience, there is a parable Avatar Meher Baba used about experience. I'm in the state of one who had gotten a whiff of the scent in the story:

There is a beautiful story of a kasturi-mriga, or musk deer, that brings out the nature of all spiritual sadhana. Once, while roaming about and frolicking among hills and dales, the kasturi-mriga was suddenly aware of an exquisitely beautiful scent, the like of which it had never known. The scent stirred the inner depths of its soul so profoundly that it determined to find the source.

So keen was its longing that notwithstanding the severity of cold or the intensity of scorching heat, by day as well as by night, the deer carried on its desperate search for the source of the sweet scent. It knew no fear or hesitation but undaunted went on its elusive search, until at last, happening to lose its foothold on a cliff, it had a precipitous fall resulting in a fatal injury.

While breathing its last, the deer found that the scent that had ravished its heart and inspired all these efforts came from its own navel. This last moment of the deer's life was its happiest, and there was on its face inexpressible peace.

All spiritual sadhanas of the aspirant are like the efforts of the kasturi-mriga. The final fructification of sadhana involves the termination of the ego-life of the aspirant. At that moment there is the realization that he himself has, in a sense, been the object of all his search and endeavor.

All that he suffered and enjoyed — all his risks and adventures, all his sacrifices and desperate strivings — were intended for achieving true Self-knowledge, in which he loses his limited individuality only to discover that he is really identical with God, who is in everything.

 

[ppp]

You say that there is a god, but irrespective of whether or not there actually is, why should I be convinced that you know or are even capable of knowing such a thing?

I mean, the alternative is strutting about all self-superior like and doubting your fellows capacity for knowledge and making their own decisions about what to do with their lives.

You went from one not being convinced about a single proposition, to self superiority, to some form of infantalization.

I am not convinced about your claim is not even on the same continuum as I doubt your ability to make your own decisions. I feel like I am being used as a stand in.for someone else. A strawman, if you will.

 

[ppp]

As to experience, there is a parable Avatar Meher Baba used about experience. I'm in the state of one who had gotten a whiff of the scent in the story

I don't read stories as responses to questions. I might read one as a later supplement, if the conversation makes me want to learn more about where my interlocutor is coming from. But not as a primary text.

 

[Nakosis]

You say that there is a god, but irrespective of whether or not there actually is, why should I be convinced that you know or are even capable of knowing such a thing?

You don't start out convinced. You start out by questioning the possibility. Then you hear from others what they have experienced and question if that is possible too. If you can open yourself up to these possibilities you might have experiences of your own which begin to support these possibilities. You may end up finding yourself convince by your own experiences.

It takes a little faith for you do whatever is required as part of the belief and that you will have experiences which support it. If you don't have these experiences for yourself then there will be nothing that convinces you.