Southern Baptist Convention says "no" to women pastors

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Good point i.e. back to the OP
Women should not have authority over men, especially in the Church. Man was created first, and woman was made for man.
Yes, you're correct, that humanity could not survive without women, but the hierarchy is clear and stipulated throughout Scripture.
Of course, you don't accept Scripture as having any merit for doctrine or ordinance. But, your OP is about a Baptist Church, who, by definition, abides by Scripture.

They made the right decision.

Enough, already! Man was not MADE!

You know, there is an answer to the silly old question, "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" The answer? The egg -- which was laid by something "almost-but-not-quite chicken." The first true modern human male (if you could find such a thing in prehistory) was born of a female of a species very close to but not quite modern human. There was no Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve are mythology.

I'm sorry religious belief seems to forbid you and the Southern Baptists knowledge of science, but them's the breaks.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The prevalence of such an arrangement throughout history, denotes the acceptance of it.
In other words, it is your perception that makes it out to be an egregious and oppressive matter - your bias is making you only empathize with the bride and not the groom.
For, if neither of the two parties consented to the union, then they are both in an unfortunate position.

But, in the case where a vanquishing army takes captives as wives, then, yes, the man has more say in the matter than the woman. But, again, her nation went to war and lost - which option would you take: marriage or death?

I'm going to have to stop talking to you, because your words are so morally reprehensible, they so make me sick to my stomach, that anything I say is going to get me banned.

I hope some kind of karma comes around at you.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The family, and nation as a whole, were slaughtered for their idolatrous practices, and the fact they they enticed the Israelites to do the same. The war was not to obtain wives, as you predicated.

This is a statement of faith, not fact. We could discuss what scholarship suggests, but you would simply dismiss it. I'm done with you ...

 

[DNB]

Enough, already! Man was not MADE!

You know, there is an answer to the silly old question, "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" The answer? The egg -- which was laid by something "almost-but-not-quite chicken." The first true modern human male (if you could find such a thing in prehistory) was born of a female of a species very close to but not quite modern human. There was no Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve are mythology.

I'm sorry religious belief seems to forbid you and the Southern Baptists knowledge of science, but them's the breaks.

Did you just assert, unequivocally, that the egg came first before the chicken, ...except for the fact that the egg was laid by a chicken-like something, which came before it?

I believe that you may have just discovered a new vocation for yourself, namely comedy.

 

[DNB]

This is a statement of faith, not fact. We could discuss what scholarship suggests, but you would simply dismiss it. I'm done with you ...

Nujmbers 25

1. While Israel was staying in ****tim, the men began to indulge in sexual immorality with Moabite women, 2 who invited them to the sacrifices to their gods. The people ate the sacrificial meal and bowed down before these gods. 3 So Israel yoked themselves to the Baal of Peor. And the Lord’s anger burned against them.

4 The Lord said to Moses, “Take all the leaders of these people, kill them and expose them in broad daylight before the Lord, so that the Lord’s fierce anger may turn away from Israel.”

5 So Moses said to Israel’s judges, “Each of you must put to death those of your people who have yoked themselves to the Baal of Peor.”

6 Then an Israelite man brought into the camp a Midianite woman right before the eyes of Moses and the whole assembly of Israel while they were weeping at the entrance to the tent of meeting. 7 When Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, saw this, he left the assembly, took a spear in his hand 8 and followed the Israelite into the tent. He drove the spear into both of them, right through the Israelite man and into the woman’s stomach. Then the plague against the Israelites was stopped; 9 but those who died in the plague numbered 24,000.

10 The Lord said to Moses, 11 “Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, has turned my anger away from the Israelites. Since he was as zealous for my honor among them as I am, I did not put an end to them in my zeal. 12 Therefore tell him I am making my covenant of peace with him. 13 He and his descendants will have a covenant of a lasting priesthood, because he was zealous for the honor of his God and made atonement for the Israelites.”

14 The name of the Israelite who was killed with the Midianite woman was Zimri son of Salu, the leader of a Simeonite family. 15 And the name of the Midianite woman who was put to death was Kozbi daughter of Zur, a tribal chief of a Midianite family.

16 The Lord said to Moses, 17 “Treat the Midianites as enemies and kill them. 18 They treated you as enemies when they deceived you in the Peor incident involving their sister Kozbi, the daughter of a Midianite leader, the woman who was killed when the plague came as a result of that incident.”

 

[DNB]

I'm going to have to stop talking to you, because your words are so morally reprehensible, they so make me sick to my stomach, that anything I say is going to get me banned.

I hope some kind of karma comes around at you.

It's a shame that you haven't really understood a thing that I said. Maybe I didn't specify my points emphatically enough, but you have entirely disregarded the circumstances, and have simply generalized that all unilateral decisions in regard to marriage, is tantamount to rape.

My ultimate point was to try and understand the circumstances, the intent, and the full meaning of the decree, for one reason only: to mitigate on God's behalf.
I do not like the text any more than you do, at all. I do not endorse, ever, men taking advantage of women on any level, in any manner. Men must always protect women with their lives - the protocol is always 'women and children first'.

But, I have a higher regard for Scripture than you do, and all my sentiments, every single one that I have posted on this thread, is to try and harmonize the rather disturbing passages in the Bible with the holiness of God. It was very challenging for me, as some of the pericopes are absolutely quite shocking and upsetting: the story of the Levite's concubine, Lot's offering of his daughter's to the Sodomites, Tamar's rape and abandonment by Amnon, David's assassination of Uriah, and, most prominently, the annihilation of the Canaanites.

I do not wish slavery or forced marriages upon anyone, but I have an obligation , at least to myself, to try a understand what I believe to be the word of God, in the light of God's unquestionable wisdom and holiness. And the entirety of my rhetoric was coming from that stand point, and that alone, whether or not I did either an adequate or reasonable job in doing so.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Did you just assert, unequivocally, that the egg came first before the chicken, ...except for the fact that the egg was laid by a chicken-like something, which came before it?

I believe that you may have just discovered a new vocation for yourself, namely comedy.

Yes DNB. The egg did come first. Egg laying goes all the way back in evolution to when we were fish.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Did you just assert, unequivocally, that the egg came first before the chicken, ...except for the fact that the egg was laid by a chicken-like something, which came before it?

I believe that you may have just discovered a new vocation for yourself, namely comedy.

Better than being totally ignorant of well-established science.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Nujmbers 25

1. While Israel was staying in ****tim, the men began to indulge in sexual immorality with Moabite women, 2 who invited them to the sacrifices to their gods. The people ate the sacrificial meal and bowed down before these gods. 3 So Israel yoked themselves to the Baal of Peor. And the Lord’s anger burned against them.

4 The Lord said to Moses, “Take all the leaders of these people, kill them and expose them in broad daylight before the Lord, so that the Lord’s fierce anger may turn away from Israel.”

5 So Moses said to Israel’s judges, “Each of you must put to death those of your people who have yoked themselves to the Baal of Peor.”

6 Then an Israelite man brought into the camp a Midianite woman right before the eyes of Moses and the whole assembly of Israel while they were weeping at the entrance to the tent of meeting. 7 When Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, saw this, he left the assembly, took a spear in his hand 8 and followed the Israelite into the tent. He drove the spear into both of them, right through the Israelite man and into the woman’s stomach. Then the plague against the Israelites was stopped; 9 but those who died in the plague numbered 24,000.

10 The Lord said to Moses, 11 “Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, has turned my anger away from the Israelites. Since he was as zealous for my honor among them as I am, I did not put an end to them in my zeal. 12 Therefore tell him I am making my covenant of peace with him. 13 He and his descendants will have a covenant of a lasting priesthood, because he was zealous for the honor of his God and made atonement for the Israelites.”

14 The name of the Israelite who was killed with the Midianite woman was Zimri son of Salu, the leader of a Simeonite family. 15 And the name of the Midianite woman who was put to death was Kozbi daughter of Zur, a tribal chief of a Midianite family.

16 The Lord said to Moses, 17 “Treat the Midianites as enemies and kill them. 18 They treated you as enemies when they deceived you in the Peor incident involving their sister Kozbi, the daughter of a Midianite leader, the woman who was killed when the plague came as a result of that incident.”

But, I have a higher regard for Scripture than you do

Yeah, obviously, like the cheerful kiddies story above.

 

[metis]

... a Baptist Church, who, by definition, abides by Scripture.

Their interpretation of scripture and one taken at a literalistic level.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

@IndigoChild5559 @Jayhawker Soule
Does this sound as egregious and malicious as you're making it out to be? Does it appear as inconsiderate, oppressive and abusive as you claim?
Your biases have entirely lead you to misconstrued the text. Commentaries are good, but not always rightly divided, obviously.

Deuteronomy 21:10-14

10 When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. 14 If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.

That is heinous. Kill her dad and take her for you wife. Thank the gods the world has mostly moved past such barbaric ways.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But, your OP is about a Baptist Church, who, by definition, abides by Scripture.

It is specifically the Southern Baptist Church. And that claim is worth it's own thread. The SBC go on and on and on and on abkut how they follow Scripture but apparently nobody else does because they are notorious for judging others and especially judging other denominations. Which in itself is not congruent with Scripture that instructs them to mind the beam in their own eye first and that by what judgements the give it will be judged against them.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The prevalence of such an arrangement throughout history, denotes the acceptance of it.
In other words, it is your perception that makes it out to be an egregious and oppressive matter - your bias is making you only empathize with the bride and not the groom.
For, if neither of the two parties consented to the union, then they are both in an unfortunate position.

But, in the case where a vanquishing army takes captives as wives, then, yes, the man has more say in the matter than the woman. But, again, her nation went to war and lost - which option would you take: marriage or death?

Did you seriously just ask why we empathize with the victim and not with the perpetrator of the crimes of kidnapping and rape and suggested that they are both in an "unfortunate position"..... ???

Religion seems to have warped your moral compass into something terribly immoral. You are like the second or third religious person to attempt to justify rape to me in the last couple of weeks on this forum. And people wonder why I reject such beliefs. Wow.

 

[DNB]

Yes DNB. The egg did come first. Egg laying goes all the way back in evolution to when we were fish.

Who or what generated or fertilized the egg?

 

[DNB]

Better than being totally ignorant of well-established science.

God defined science, your just acknowledging , unwittingly, His power and wisdom.

 

[DNB]

Yeah, obviously, like the cheerful kiddies story above.

No, not for kids, ...that's why it went entirely over your head.

 

[DNB]

Their interpretation of scripture and one taken at a literalistic level.

How else is the Bible to be taken?

 

[DNB]

That is heinous. Kill her dad and take her for you wife. Thank the gods the world has mostly moved past such barbaric ways.

They enemies were practicing child sacrifice - you tell me who the criminals are?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They enemies were practicing child sacrifice - you tell me who the criminals are?

They both sucked. It was a life of uncertainty, scarcity, difficulties, death and war and they seem to have taken it out on eachother.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I was Southern Backward, I mean Baptist, for a long time. I thought they might update their views, but I guess not.