I wasn't going to address the irrationality, intelligence & blind faith issues.
Let's not make this personal.
Not at all. You allude to them, but without specificity.
Why? Because allusion is all you have.
I've been more specific and have gone into greater detail in past discussions.
I make judgements about how the various systems
perform over time. Socialism's record is 100% dismal
compared to the many positive examples of capitalism.
See, this is a perfect example. You use such blanket, heavy-handed propagandistic terms like "100% dismal," while offering nothing substantial to back up such an opinion. Your posts are peppered with these little witticisms, too numerous to address one by one.
Of course, you must deflect from socialism's historical
failures. They prove you wrong. So you try to switch
the discussion to socialist revolutions...as though this
proves socialism to be the better system.
Since socialist revolutions actually happened, they are relevant to the discussion at hand. How can you have a discussion about socialism without mentioning socialist revolutions and what led up to it? It doesn't deflect from any perceived "failure" of socialism, but it does illustrate the difficulties many countries face in trying to reform and modernize a society which had been backward and oppressive for so long. It wasn't just the revolution, but also a civil war and two world wars they faced. It doesn't matter what system they had - any country going through that level of devastation is going to have economic problems. The fact that they were still able to recover to the degree they did is quite an achievement.
True, it was hardly the level of luxury and comfort which we typically enjoyed in the United States, but I would say they were adequately functional under the circumstances. So, I know from first-hand observation that your claim of "total failure" is absolutely erroneous. You speak in such absolute, hyperbolic terms that it's relatively easy to see the flaws in your logic and reasoning.
But at best,
it would be evidence that it's better than the particular
system in the particular country when & where it took
place. But you fail to mention that Russians then had
buyer's remorse, & switched back to capitalism.
I am aware of the events of which you speak, and I have neither hesitated nor avoided mentioning it.
Based on recent events, I think that Russia's buyer's remorse and reversion to capitalism hasn't worked out too well for them. But at least they're capitalist now, right?
You continue to ignore my specific claim that the best
of capitalism is better than the best of socialism's attempts.
When did I ignore it? We're discussing that very claim here and now. In fact, I already acknowledged that, at least when comparing the US to the USSR, your claim is substantially correct, if we consider both countries to the best examples of socialism and capitalism. We do have it better in the United States. So there, I said it. I have not ignored it. I have acknowledged it. So you can dispense with any further talk about me "continuing to ignore your claim."
Your argument is based on the worst examples of capitalism
representing all of capitalism. But without a positive example
of socialism.
No, you clearly misunderstood the argument. There is a cause and effect relationship between the worst examples of capitalism and the best examples of capitalism. The Western liberal economies became so rich from looting and pillaging the rest of the world, while the worst examples of capitalism exist in their wake, in the many dozens of "****hole countries" that one President liked to call them. Capitalists became rich off the blood and bones of the people from those countries, so even the so-called "positive examples" of capitalism ultimately got rich because of the excess wealth and luxury such long-term exploitation and greed created.
So, the "best examples" are analogous to the Romans living a good life in Rome because all the wealth of the Empire was flowing back to Rome. You can't just extol the greatness of Rome without looking at the entire empire, and that's the flaw in your argument.
That's absurd. You utterly ignore human nature
by positing a better human to enable socialism'
s success.
A desire to improve the human condition has been a major theme of the Enlightenment and the general trend which human civilization has taken in recent times. It's the idea that we can rise above some of the more base, primitive natures of human beings and rise to something better. Do you seriously have a problem with that?
You've ignored my decrying socialism's many
anti-human rights policies....
- Slavery
- Pogroms
- Purges
- Mass starvation, both intentional & unintentional
This might require a different thread, since you're raising a number of claims but without any elaboration. These are atrocities which came out of war, civil war, and post-civil war bad blood and settling old scores. None of it is justifiable or defensible, but it doesn't really have anything to do with socialism, as such. Under the circumstances, these things would have happened no matter what system they chose. They can even happened under a democratic system like ours.
So, I haven't ignored it, but you haven't really demonstrated that the correlation proves the causation.
It's funny you mention Trump. You've reminded me of
him with duplicitous arguments, bogus claims, & bad hair.
Trump is a capitalist. He's on your side, not mine. You may not like him. Many capitalists don't, and many seem quite embarrassed and shocked by his antics, but he's definitely sitting at the capitalist table. The socialist table is in the kitchen with the proletariat.
Yeah....prosperity, social liberty, & economic liberty
are such narrow parameters. I continue to marvel
at socialism's fans failing to understand anything
that counters their fantasy.
So, now you're saying the parameters are prosperity, social liberty, and economic liberty? Since you believe that socialism has none of these things, then you under these parameters, socialism itself would be off the subject. All we could talk about is the USA, American exceptionalism, flag-waving, guns, apple pie - all the fun stuff. Yeah, okay, let's talk about fun stuff instead.
