Churches lack democracy.

[JIMMY12345]

The Church of England has said it will bless same sex marriage.The Catholic Church has just responded "Nuts to that". Bodies die but minds are eternal.Our bodies are there to carry our souls about.Our "Christian" religions can be as hide bound as Iranian clerics.Human males and females differ slightly due to different bits.It seems poor science not to allow marriage if the churches believe (genuinely) in a afterlife.Its Brains and minds that are important.Churches concentrate to much on gender issues and use poor science.

Pope Francis is much loved.However he was chided by an Australian Bishop George Pell. The latter sadly just passed away recently.Bishop Pell's real crime is not to believe the Pope is the ultimate decider of doctrine -Liberal Popes what next? how dare they.Even if Pope Francis makes more sense and logic than swathes of his predecessors. Pope's sway like Politicians.Some are liberal .Some Authoritarian.
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Let the laity have vote to influence decision making.Bishops could select 2/3 candidates for Pope.The laity could vote on Blessings for same sex marriage.How would this be done.Mr Musk is seeking new applications and uses for Twitter.Would you vote?

 

[Rival]

The laity are not adept at making complicated theological decisions. They shouldn't be voting on this any more than they should be voting on medical issues. Religion isn't about democracy, it's about the ultimate truth. People will vote for what they want, not what's true or theologically correct.

 

[PureX]

The laity are not adept at making complicated theological decisions. They shouldn't be voting on this any more than they should be voting on medical issues. Religion isn't about democracy, it's about the ultimate truth. People will vote for what they want, not what's true or theologically correct.

Theologians are people too, and are just as inclined to serve their own agendas as any other person is. Which is exactly why people need to decide for themselves, as they are the one's that will have to suffer the consequences.

 

[Rival]

Theologians are people too, and are just as inclined to serve their own agendas as any other person is. Which is exactly why people need to decide for themselves, as they are the one one's that will have to suffer the consequences.

Doctors are just people too.

 

[PureX]

Doctors are just people too.

Religion is not dependent on physics. Ask your priest to fix your car and see how that goes if you think otherwise.

The purpose of religion is to help people live according to their chosen theology. It is not to choose their theology for them. Not understanding this will only make you a victim.

 

[sun rise]

I note the OP is basically asking if the Catholic Church should be a bit Protestant in how it selects the Pope. Personally as a non-Catholic, I don't care.

 

[Rival]

Religion is not dependent on physics. Ask you priest to fix your car and see how that goes if you think otherwise.

The purpose of religion is to help people live according to their chosen theology. It is not to choose their theology for them. Not understanding this will only make you a victim.

Theology is the science of God, not just something people do in their spare time. Marriage is a sacrament and not just something done according to the will of the people. It's much more consequential than that. Theology matters and no, it's not 'chosen', but digested and understood.

 

[PureX]

Theology is the science of God, not just something people do in their spare time. Marriage is a sacrament and not just something done according to the will of the people. It's much more consequential than that. Theology matters and no, it's not 'chosen', but digested and understood.

You're describing a cult, not a religion. Religions don't dictate, they serve. Cults dictate.

 

[Altfish]

Churches lack democracy

But they can make their own rules. They are a club that you choose to join, if you don't like the rules, you know what to do.

 

[Rival]

You're describing a cult, not a religion. Religions don't dictate, they serve. Cults dictate.

Theology is a major component of religion, it dictates things like marriage, death rituals, holidays. What else would these things be based on? If your theology is wrong you are erring and your marriage (for example) is invalid. If you don't like that that's fine but it's how this works. Marriage is a theological issue not a democratic one. Its meaning doesn't change.

 

[Wildswanderer]

If a church deserts scripture to arrive at a theological decision it's no longer a true church, and members who care about truth should move on to another church that doesn't compromise to the culture.

 

[PureX]

Theology is a major component of religion, it dictates things like marriage, death rituals, holidays. What else would these things be based on? If your theology is wrong you are erring and your marriage (for example) is invalid. If you don't like that that's fine but it's how this works. Marriage is a theological issue not a democratic one. Its meaning doesn't change.

There is no "wrong" theology. Theology is an open question related to the idea of "God" based on the philosophical possibility of it. We each have to choose for ourselves how we respond to that possibility once it's been presented to us. How we choose to characterize it, and how we choose to relate to it is up to us. Then we can employ religion, if we like, to help us embody our chosen theological ideal, in our life. ... Or not.

Allowing others to choose for us is foolish and irrational. One; because they do not have our best interests at heart, and two; it is not possible for them to know any more about "God" than we do.

 

[Rival]

There is no "wrong" theology. Theology is an open question related to the idea of "God" based on the philosophical possibility of it. We each have to choose for ourselves how we respond to that possibility once it's been presented to us. How we choose to characterize it, and how we choose to relate to it is up to us. Then we can employ religion, if we like, to help us embody our choices, in our life. ... Or not. Allowing others to choose for us is foolish and irrational. One; because they do not have our best interests at heart, and two; it is not possible for them to know any more about the "God" possibility than we do.

We're talking about Christianity here, specifically the Anglican and Roman Catholic Churches. They do have definitions of right and wrong theology, and democracy has nothing to do with it.

 

[Rival]

Also no, the C of E has said it will bless same sex unions and has denied same sex marriage.

Neither the AC nor the RCC bless same sex marriage because there's no such thing as a 'same sex marriage' within these Churches.

Church of England bishops refuse to back gay marriage - BBC News

 

[PureX]

We're talking about Christianity here, specifically the Anglican and Roman Catholic Churches. They do have definitions of right and wrong theology, and democracy has nothing to do with it.

You are talking about a religious cult and it's various factions. I am talking about religion as a category of human endeavor. A collection of spiritual and psychological tools that people can use to help them live their lives according to their chosen theological perspective.

 

[Rival]

You are talking about a religious cult and it's various factions. I am talking about religion as a category of human endeavor. A collection of spiritual and psychological tools that people can use to help them live their lives according to their chosen theological perspective.

The OP is about Christian Churches.

 

[PureX]

The OP is about Christian Churches.

Yes, and the more cult-like they are, the less democratic (more authoritarian) they will be. These are not about serving their members, but about their members serving them.

 

[Rival]

Yes, and the more cult-like they are, the less democratic (more authoritarian) they will be.

Yes, the Anglican and Roman Catholic Churches are authoritarian and have a hierarchy. Pope Francis is an authoritarian pope, one of the most so, and the C of E bishops have nullified any idea of a vote on same sex marriage because that's in their power. Churches are not democratic and are not meant to be.

 

[metis]

Churches are not democratic and are not meant to be.

Exactly, and that's true from the beginning within Christianity because it says "Jesus taught with authority,...".

 

[PureX]

Yes, the Anglican and Roman Catholic Churches are authoritarian and have a hierarchy. Pope Francis is an authoritarian pope, one of the most so, and the C of E bishops have nullified any idea of a vote on same sex marriage because that's in their power. Churches are not democratic and are not meant to be.

Same is true of the U.S. government. Always has been authoritarian. So is economic capitalism. The rich call all the shots. We humans are always trying to control each other for our own benefit. And if we don't resist that control, we will be enslaved by it. This has nothing to do with God, or theism, in my view. It's just our usual selfishness at work.