Homosexuality and religious.

[TransmutingSoul]

The manifestation were different men and said different things. The Sun is pretty consistent in what it does.

The Sun gives light and life, exactly as each Manifestation does on the day they arose. A day like unto a thousand years.

Sure you want to keep doing this?

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

'At one time' is the key here. All of those religions don't thing their faiths are invalid today. They think that their faith is totally valid today. Otherwise these faiths would have disappeared into the sands of time. It's insulting to say, 'yeah, I like your faith, but it's out of date, and mine is better, the new and improved version.'

Like in that one post where you mention all those things from Hinduism. If Hinduism disappeared which Abrahamic religion would bring back any of them? And I doubt they would bring them back, but they would say that most of them are false beliefs and would replace them with their own teachings.

 

[Vinayaka]

Nothing to do with Baha’is. Baha’u’llah clearly states it is a matter for the worlds leaders. Where is Baha’i or Baha’i Faith mentioned in this quote? This clearly is not about Baha’is.

The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation. (Baha’u’llah)

Yes of course. Although the highlighted portion is unclear grammatically, it is up to the world's leaders and literally thousands of thinkers in the last century know that. Heck, even dumb people like me know that. You really think it took a Baha'u'llah to figure that out. Who else would it be, but the leaders? The peasants?

 

[Vinayaka]

Like in that one post where you mention all those things from Hinduism. If Hinduism disappeared which Abrahamic religion would bring back any of them? And I doubt they would bring them back, but they would say that most of them are false beliefs and would replace them with their own teachings.

They're trying very hard to do that as we speak. That's the very goal of proselytising. In Momen's short Baha'i paper on Hinduism, he claimed that the goal was to 'update' Hinduism, and we all know what that means.

 

[CG Didymus]

We don’t have any gurus or spiritual teachers either. Each Baha’i is responsible for his/her own spiritual progress and behaviour. The House of Justice are not permitted to interpret. Only to legislate upon matters not revealed in the teachings.

I went to a lot of Baha'i gathering where I was "taught" by leaders of the Faith including three Hands of the Cause. They were treated like "gods". Then theirs Continental Counselors and Auxiliary Board members and of course the National and Local Assembly members that are leading the Baha'is in their countries and communities.

 

[Vinayaka]

If we read what Baha'u'llah offered, we soon find what all past manifestations offered.

There is one book that contains the Essence of all past Scriptures.

The Hidden Words | Bahá’í Reference Library

"HE IS THE GLORY OF GLORIES

THIS is that which hath descended from the realm of glory, uttered by the tongue of power and might, and revealed unto the Prophets of old. We have taken the inner essence thereof and clothed it in the garment of brevity, as a token of grace unto the righteous, that they may stand faithful unto the Covenant of God, may fulfill in their lives His trust, and in the realm of spirit obtain the gem of divine virtue."

Regards Tony

Tongue of power? He's speaking of himself? Clothed in the garment of brevity? Now that one is actually funny, in irony. Surely you can't say Baha'u'llah's many many words are brevity. Perhaps he didn't know the definition of brevity. Personally, I think he really could have used an editor.

 

[dybmh]

We believe in all these religions as a part of our own and that they are all linked by their teaching that a future Great One will appear which we believe is Baha’u’llah. So they are our religion too not separate.

The messianic aspects of Judaism can occupy 1 sheet of paper front and back. Compromise? This aspect of Judaism is not seperate from yours.

The remnants of religions we see today are of those who rejected the subsequent evolution of their faith by clinging onto the interpretations of their clergy. Had they not done so there would only be one religion today evolving.

The negative stereotype of clergy is noted.

In Judaism, the text directs the practice to be enternal. It warns of those who come to adjust the law contained in it. It also warns about those who direct their prayers to other divine sources. ( Praying to Baha'u'llah for example ). So you see, it's not 'clinging to interpretations of their clergy'. It's clinging to the text and significant theological differences.

 

[Vinayaka]

I went to a lot of Baha'i gathering where I was "taught" by leaders of the Faith including three Hands of the Cause. They were treated like "gods". Then theirs Continental Counselors and Auxiliary Board members and of course the National and Local Assembly members that are leading the Baha'is in their countries and communities.

Isn't he entire Ruhi program about teaching? They are called classes.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yeah, and how much of that information do Baha'is have to interpret as being symbolic to make it conform to Baha'i beliefs? The main one still being the resurrection of Jesus.

We Baha’is are forbidden to interpret. We follow whatever the Manifestation of God reveals as we believe in His authority. Baha’u’llah and the Bab both stated that the term resurrection is referring to the day of the arising of a Manifestation and a new Cause. So in that sense all Manifestations have been resurrected, that is, after They died Their Cause spread all over the world.


“The Day He revealeth Himself is Resurrection Day which shall last as long as He ordaineth.” (The Bab)

“True resurrection from the sepulchres means to be quickened in conformity with His Will, through the power of His utterance.” (The Bab)

 

[CG Didymus]

The Sun gives light and life, exactly as each Manifestation does on the day they arose. A day like unto a thousand years.

Sure you want to keep doing this?

Regards Tony

What questioning the Baha'i interpretation? Yes, because I don't believe progressive revelation accurately describes why there are different religions that were started by different religious leaders. They had significantly different messages. Of which Baha'is, in my opinion, don't do a very good job at explaining away.

 

[Vinayaka]

I went to a lot of Baha'i gathering where I was "taught" by leaders of the Faith including three Hands of the Cause. They were treated like "gods". Then theirs Continental Counselors and Auxiliary Board members and of course the National and Local Assembly members that are leading the Baha'is in their countries and communities.

But it's not clergy.
Why? Because we said it isn't.

 

[Vinayaka]

And what she says isn't the same thing. A Christian sect doesn't say, "We are all one with all Christians and have the same truth from God". No, they say, "Those other guys are wrong."

Rather than saying all religions are true, Baha'is should make it clear that they believe the message from each manifestation was true and from the one true God. However, since with most all of them, the manifestation didn't write down his teachings, the followers wrote things that may or may not be true. Then Baha'is say the leaders misinterpreted those writings added things in. So, who knows what those true, original teachings were?

So, for me, that's saying that the religions got built around unreliable stories and teachings that the leaders declared to be Scripture and the infallible truth. But the Baha'is also make it sound like they do believe in all the other religions and their Scriptures. So, I think they're a bit misleading in how they present it.

I prefer the Christian method. It's honest, and isn't trying to fool anyone.

 

[Vinayaka]

We don’t have any gurus or spiritual teachers either. Each Baha’i is responsible for his/her own spiritual progress and behaviour. The House of Justice are not permitted to interpret. Only to legislate upon matters not revealed in the teachings.

Baha'u'llah didn't teach. That is interesting. What exactly did he do then?

 

[CG Didymus]

Isn't he entire Ruhi program about teaching? They are called classes.

That wasn't around back then. They had big gatherings with big time speakers, like Hand of the Cause Bill Sears and sometimes music by Seals and Crofts. But the local Baha'is were supposed to have "firesides". Where they invited people interested in the Faith to come and hear someone teach about the religion. It was very common to hear Baha'is say that they were going to go "teach" the Faith.

 

[CG Didymus]

We Baha’is are forbidden to interpret.

I doubt that. Baha'is here have interpreted lots of things from the Bible and NT.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I went to a lot of Baha'i gathering where I was "taught" by leaders of the Faith including three Hands of the Cause. They were treated like "gods". Then theirs Continental Counselors and Auxiliary Board members and of course the National and Local Assembly members that are leading the Baha'is in their countries and communities.

I remember Dr Muhajir visited Thailand and asked to meet with us all. He then asked me what I was doing and I said I was going to Malaysia to renew my visa. So he asked me if I was interested to visit Burma. I said yes.

He then said to ask the National Spiritual Assembly if he could have permission for me to visit Burma. We have our famous people, our popular and respected people but none are gods or have any individual authority. Everyone submits to the elected bodies decisions no matter how popular they might be.

 

[Vinayaka]

We Baha’is are forbidden to interpret.

Just like you're forbidden to proselytise?

 

[loverofhumanity]

The messianic aspects of Judaism can occupy 1 sheet of paper front and back. Compromise? This aspect of Judaism is not seperate from yours.

The negative stereotype of clergy is noted.

In Judaism, the text directs the practice to be enternal. It warns of those who come to adjust the law contained in it. It also warns about those who direct their prayers to other divine sources. ( Praying to Baha'u'llah for example ). So you see, it's not 'clinging to interpretations of their clergy'. It's clinging to the text and significant theological differences.

It is belief in God that is paramount. We do not worship Baha’u’llah or Moses or Krishna. We only worship God.

Zachariah 14:9

And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Say: all things are of God.' This exalted utterance is like unto water for quenching the fire of hate and enmity which smouldereth within the hearts and breasts of men. By this single utterance contending peoples and kindreds will attain the light of true unity. Verily He speaketh the truth and leadeth the way. He is the All-Powerful, the Exalted, the Gracious.
(Baha’u’llah)

 

[loverofhumanity]

What questioning the Baha'i interpretation? Yes, because I don't believe progressive revelation accurately describes why there are different religions that were started by different religious leaders. They had significantly different messages. Of which Baha'is, in my opinion, don't do a very good job at explaining away.

If you look at the times of the appearance of the religions none appeared at the same period. Historically they appeared progressively not all at once.

 

[Vinayaka]

It is belief in God that is paramount. We do not worship Baha’u’llah or Moses or Krishna. We only worship God.

Zachariah 14:9

And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Say: all things are of God.' This exalted utterance is like unto water for quenching the fire of hate and enmity which smouldereth within the hearts and breasts of men. By this single utterance contending peoples and kindreds will attain the light of true unity. Verily He speaketh the truth and leadeth the way. He is the All-Powerful, the Exalted, the Gracious.
(Baha’u’llah)

Krishna is God. So I guess you've unknowingly converted to Vaishnavism. Hari Krishna, Hari Krishna.

By the way, what do Baha'is think of the Vedas, the actual scriptural authority for the entirety of Hinduism? (It's not the Bhagavad Gita, as you might believe.)