Homosexuality and religious.

[samtonga43]

I have learned to do the same.
I know who is seeking a serious respectful discussion and who is not, and I am no longer interested in the bantering back and forth.

Let them act out, it doesn't bother me. It is simply more entertainment for me.
They only make themselves look silly when they act out.

It seems to me, and I think some others may agree, that 'bantering back and forth' is a Tb-ism for posters expressing their opinions of the irrationality of many of her beliefs...

 

[loverofhumanity]

Can you quote it? And it specifically uses the word "homosexuality" and that it is forbidden?

Different religious texts use various texts. The actual word homosexuality was first used not universally in 1868 so usually in scripture you will find the ‘act’ described but not the word homosexuality.

150 years ago, the word ‘homosexual’ was coined in a secret correspondence

Baha’u’llah described it in His Most Holy Book thus.

“We shrink, for very shame, from treating of the subject of boys. Fear ye the Merciful, O peoples of the world! Commit not that which is forbidden you in Our Holy Tablet, and be not of those who rove distractedly in the wilderness of their desires.”

The Kitab-i-Aqdas
Bahá’u’lláh

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It seems to me, and I think some others may agree, that 'bantering back and forth' is a Tb-ism for posters expressing their opinions of the irrationality of many of her beliefs...

Well, in general the fight in a sense ends in if other people are wrong and all the other variants if I just claim that. That and how harm works.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So this deity sat watching for approximately 200k years of unimaginable suffering, waiting for one species of evolved ape to discover science. Sounds like a particularly cruel deity you've imagined to me.

Of course if we remove the assumption of a deity, the story works just fine without it. Occam's razor applies it seems.

Much of humanity’s slow progress i believe has been due to not following the divine laws. Had we done so our energies would have been directed towards improving the quality of life instead of conquering others and fighting wars.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Much of humanity’s slow progress i believe has been due to not following the divine laws. Had we done so our energies would have been directed towards improving the quality of life instead of conquering others and fighting wars.

Is that a fact or your opinion? If opinion then you don't talk for humanity and should stop talking for humanity.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Like pernicious superstitions for example.

Like the one that some believe there is no Higher Intelligence or God despite admitting we do not know everything. Until we do know everything there is to know I believe it is unreasonable to rule out the possibility God exists. Religionists see God in the Prophet and atheists rely on their limited knowledge of the universe in making their assumption.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Like the one that some believe there is no Higher Intelligence or God despite admitting we do not know everything. Until we do know everything there is to know I believe it is unreasonable to rule out the possibility God exists. Religionists see God in the Prophet and atheists rely on their limited knowledge of the universe in making their assumption.

Or rule out that God doesn't exist. Both are reasonable.
So you don't speak for all humans. You only speak based on how you reason.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Circular reasoning fallacy.

How do you know for sure you are right? Your reasoning might be fallacious not mine.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

How do you know for sure you are right? Your reasoning might be fallacious not mine.

Have you considered that all claims about what objective reality really is, are all fallacious?

 

[loverofhumanity]

So what? And of course, they could be a gay man and a gay woman, or one of them gay and the other straight.



So what? How does being gay threaten human existence as you claimed?

I believe our existence is dependent on following the laws and counsels of the latest Manifestation of God. Baha’u’llah called on all the world to unite and they ignored Him so we have had two world wars since then.

Homosexuality is only one teaching but it is causing people to turn against the Manifestation and that is not good for our future as our well being and security I believe rests upon turning to the teachings of Baha’u’llah. The more people, the longer and the more reasons people find to turn against God will result in us ignoring the other teachings of Baha’u’llah which can bring peace and prosperity. The longer the world ignores the Manifestation of God the worse the world will become so anything which causes us to turn against Him is not in humanity’s best interests. Atheism and greed are other mindsets which lead us astray. But it’s peoples choice.

 

[Vinayaka]

And all those links you gave them where gay Baha'is tell their side of the story, plus the link to conversion therapy, I've seen very little response from Baha'is. As I recall one Baha'i said he doesn't what to listen to what some disgruntled person has to say about it.

All about the strategy. Sad. Evade. Change the topic. Ignore. Just do whatever so the topic isn't discussed. This is independent investigation?

 

[loverofhumanity]

It's all we have though see, inventing an imaginary deity, then insisting obviously flawed human ideas like homophobia are perfectly moral because they came from this imaginary deity, is the same human reasoning, just used poorly and uncritically.

Human reasoning is flawed you admit. That’s what I have been trying to get across all along, that the idea that there is no God is flawed reasoning.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Human reasoning is flawed you admit. That’s what I have been trying to get across all along, that the idea that there is no God is flawed reasoning.

And there is a God flawed reasoning. Both positions are opinions.

 

[Vinayaka]

In my recent post I explained that it is between the individual and God until they begin acting out of order like that Baha’i making sexual advances at Baha’i services which offended the person. There are boundaries we cannot cross. A Baha’i may struggle with his sexual desires both homosexual and heterosexual all his life and not be troubled. But when it causes harm to the community then it needs to be addressed.

Did that person lose voting rights? It's very difficult to find follow up stories on incidents like this. We had a recent story in Canada of a Baha'i being charged for child exploitation, but there is no story of what happened within the organisation other than the usual 'We're aware of the allegations.'

 

[Vinayaka]

Is that a fact or your opinion? If opinion then you don't talk for humanity and should stop talking for humanity.

'We' is often substituted for 'I' in Baha'ispeak. It's part of the conditioning.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

'We' is often substituted for 'I' in Baha'ispeak. It's part of the conditioning.

Yeah, it is the double speak. My opinion makes me able to claim facts for all of us, but if caught it is an opinion, but still about all of us.

 

[loverofhumanity]

What are you using to do that?

Through the Holy Spirit embedded in the Writings of Baha’u’llah.

The Holy Spirit gives the true method of comprehension which is infallible and indubitable. This is through the help of the Holy Spirit which comes to man, and this is the condition in which certainty can alone be attained.
'Abdu'l-Bahá,

Through my soul.

THOU hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him. (Baha’u’llah)

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Through the Holy Spirit embedded in the Writings of Baha’u’llah.

The Holy Spirit gives the true method of comprehension which is infallible and indubitable. This is through the help of the Holy Spirit which comes to man, and this is the condition in which certainty can alone be attained.
'Abdu'l-Bahá,

Through my soul.

THOU hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him. (Baha’u’llah)

Yeah, but please stop speaking for humanity.

 

[loverofhumanity]

But that is only harn, because of the belief. If you didn't have that belief, it wouldn't be harm.

It’s the same with any of our laws. They are not just beliefs but laws that govern our community. There’s no point in becoming a Baha’i if one doesn’t agree with our laws.

 

[Vinayaka]

I believe our existence is dependent on following the laws and counsels of the latest Manifestation of God. Baha’u’llah called on all the world to unite and they ignored Him so we have had two world wars since then.

Homosexuality is only one teaching but it is causing people to turn against the Manifestation and that is not good for our future as our well being and security I believe rests upon turning to the teachings of Baha’u’llah. The more people, the longer and the more reasons people find to turn against God will result in us ignoring the other teachings of Baha’u’llah which can bring peace and prosperity. The longer the world ignores the Manifestation of God the worse the world will become so anything which causes us to turn against Him is not in humanity’s best interests. Atheism and greed are other mindsets which lead us astray. But it’s peoples choice.

So now, if you're not a Baha'i, you're turning against God? Wow.