Homosexuality and religious.

[dybmh]

Baha'u'llah did not single out homosexual behaviors, He was referring to all evil passions.

Yes, but Shogi Effendi reports that Baha'u'llah "spoke very strongly" about homosexuality. It sounds to me like according to Shogi Effendi Baha'u'llah did single out homosexuality. But maybe he didn't put it in writting. A wise choice if you ask me.

A heterosexual might also deem their sexuality as part of their identity, yet their behavior is being called an evil passion. Why not speak out to protect them? Why this need to protect homosexuals? Nobody is singling them out. In fact, they have more protection in society nowadays and are more widely accepted than adulterous heterosexuals. In society, it is not 'bad' to be gay anymore but it is still bad to be a man who cheated on his wife.

I think we can both agree that cheating is an evil passion. Yes, if a person identifies themself as a "cheater", that doesn't mean we should condone their cheating. I think the distinction is that cheating harms the spouse. Homosexuality is victimless.

 

[CG Didymus]

not at all.

I accept the rules of the creator. He created us and gave us a framework to live within. When we step outside of that framework, we are sinning or falling below his standard.

All types of actions can be outside of Gods framework for mankind. Adultery, fornication, bestiality, murder, drunkeness, being verbally abusive, not looking after your children, stealing, killing animals for fun...

Knowing the rules that God has set requires knowledge of his laws and acceptance of them.

Again, the "rules" of the creator says to stone homosexuals to death. When did that law get changed? What law replaced it?

But the other thing that's happening here is that Baha'is have their own laws and rules that they believe were sent to them by God through their prophet, Baha'u'llah. Which rules should we accept? The Baha'is believe their laws have replaced the laws brought by Muhammad. And Muhammad's laws replaced those brought by Jesus and so on down the line. Do you believe that? Probably not. And neither do some others here on the forum. To us, it's questionable whether or not Baha'u'llah has really sent from God.

So, does what the Baha'i Faith says about homosexuals true? We all know gays. Some of the people here are gay. Are they mental cases? Are they evil? Some of us don't think so. But Christianity and now the Baha'is say they are. We don't agree.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And that lifestyle is evil and sinful. And they know it is, because, as usual, their Scriptures said so.

The greatest advice on this is found in the Bible and the Baha'i Writings.

O SON OF BEING!
How couldst thou forget thine own faults and busy thyself with the faults of others? Whoso doeth this is accursed of Me.(Bahá'u'lláh, Hidden Words, #26 from the Arabic)

O SON OF MAN!
Breathe not the sins of others so long as thou art thyself a sinner. Shouldst thou transgress this command, accursed wouldst thou be, and to this I bear witness. (Hidden Words, #27 from the Arabic)

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

I'd be interested in seeing some examples from the Writings regarding masturbation, especially if it is described as evil, satanic, or unnatural.

In other words you really want more ammunition to direct at the Baha'is?

 

[CG Didymus]

About collective security. That is not about force but justice. Are we to allow the oppressor, tyrant and dictator to kill the innocent? It is about protecting the rights of people to live in freedom. Justice cannot allow the innocent to be victimised and killed. Justice against a bloodthirsty war criminal is upholding and defending peoples rights.

Well, here in the U.S. we love our cowboy movies. They'd have these poor settlers heading West to find their dream. Then you'd hear the music. The war drums of these people that came riding across the plains only to kill and terrorize these poor settlers. The wagon train would circle up and the men would try their best to fight them off. But they were outnumbered. There was no hope. But then... you heard the bugle sounding. The cavalry was coming over the hills.

Who were the victims? Who were the oppressors? Should have all the other nations of the world risen up and sent these Europeans invaders back across the sea? But whoever we choose to help it still involves fighting.

 

[CG Didymus]

The greatest advice on this is found in the Bible and the Baha'i Writings.

O SON OF BEING!
How couldst thou forget thine own faults and busy thyself with the faults of others? Whoso doeth this is accursed of Me.(Bahá'u'lláh, Hidden Words, #26 from the Arabic)

O SON OF MAN!
Breathe not the sins of others so long as thou art thyself a sinner. Shouldst thou transgress this command, accursed wouldst thou be, and to this I bear witness. (Hidden Words, #27 from the Arabic)

Regards Tony

What does that have to do with this...

And that lifestyle is evil and sinful. And they know it is, because, as usual, their Scriptures said so.

And let's pretend you are right; homosexuality is evil and sinful. But you aren't pretending. That's what Baha'is have obligated themselves to believe. And again, I ask... Does scientific research support that claim? If it doesn't, then science and religion don't agree. And it is religion that you believe is true no matter what science says, because scientists are just men. But Baha'is have the word of God.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yes, that is what is going on here.
We are not allowed to have our beliefs, only they are allowed to have their personal opinions.

They call us homophobic but they are hypocrites.
bahaiphobic: having or showing a dislike of or prejudice against Baha'i people.

There is certainly an palpable aversion to the Baha'i Faith and an 'I'm more rational than you' vibe.

Being able to relish the irony and naked hypocrisy helps with participating in this thread.

 

[CG Didymus]

In other words you really want more ammunition to direct at the Baha'is?

We know Baha'is believe it's wrong to "play" with oneself. But how many Baha'is abide by that?

So sure, you can say there are great benefits for a person that leads a chaste and holy life. But we're not talking about people that want to be the holy and spiritual. Even people that are in a religion like Christianity or the Baha'i Faith want to be somewhat spiritual, but they can't completely stay away from doing something sexual.

So, why is that? Is there a physical need to get "off"? And are there any problems, physically or mentally, that happen to those that try as hard as they can not to think it or do it? In other words, is there such a thing as being sexually repressed? Does it cause emotional problems? It seems that it does for a gay person... to repress their feelings and never, ever express them.

 

[SomeRandom]

Equally yoked, none leader or follower, each self-reliant, each works, each cleans, decisions from both equally seems best to me.

Equals in all things. I can agree with that

 

[CG Didymus]

Its because of insecurity I believe.
We are absolutely 100% sure that homosexuality is immoral and unacceptable because God has confirmed this with those who believe in Him. Those going out of their way to bully and intimidate those of us who see it for what it really is are very insecure because if they were so sure of themselves they wouldn’t care less if we considered it good or bad.

They want every person on earth to tell them they are on the right path while we do not need others to support our beliefs. We stand strong and firm while they are weak and insecure so feel the desperate need to bully others to agree with them and if we don’t then we are ‘infidels’ or homophobic. How laughable! Lol

I wish some gays would jump in here as say a few things. But look how some religious people have treated them. You know all the names they get called. You know that some "real" men have beaten them up and even killed them. You know that they had to keep their feelings secret. Then, they busted loose and said, "No more" and told us to get "used" to it. They are here and deal with it.

It is for their sake that we are asking those of you that hold religious beliefs that say homosexuality is wrong, ungodly, unnatural, abhorrent, evil that maybe it's your religion that is %&*^# $ up.

And of course, JW's and Baha'is? Neither of you believes in each other's religion.

 

[CG Didymus]

They don't present any arguments as to why it is evil, immoral, shameful, etc, just that it is.
However, it does say that it is "against nature" and that is demonstrably, scientifically wrong.
It also says that it can be "cured" with prayer, doctors, etc. Not only is this scientifically wrong and known to cause harm, but is illegal in many countries.

So at least we know that Bahai writings encourage unscientific beliefs and illegal activities!
Ouch!

Yeah, where is the scientific data that supports their belief that homosexuality is evil, immoral, and unnatural? If there isn't any, then is this a superstitious religious belief?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What does that have to do with this...

And let's pretend you are right; homosexuality is evil and sinful. But you aren't pretending. That's what Baha'is have obligated themselves to believe. And again, I ask... Does scientific research support that claim? If it doesn't, then science and religion don't agree. And it is religion that you believe is true no matter what science says, because scientists are just men. But Baha'is have the word of God.

It has a lot to do with this, we judge no one, as we ourselves would not liked to be judged.

CG, I did not need the Baha'i Faith to have my views of sex outside Marriage or same sex relationships. My mother and Grandmother had instilled these virtues into me well before I was a Baha'i.

I would suggest a great majority also have this opinion, but they will remain silent against such an outpouring of new age Godless thought. At the same time, no one offers it is easy to live with such high morals, in a world so caught up on sensual desires and self gratification.

By the way the thoughts are also backed up with plain good hygiene practices. All this actually makes Baha'u'llah's laws seem more reasonable with each reply I make. The rise of sexually transmitted diseases is food for thought, as is Abortion, children not knowing a Mother or a Father, etc etc

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

does anyone tolerate behaviors they disagree with? I dont think so.

And i think you are stretching it to claim mental illness for those who don't tolerate certain sexual acts. Im pretty sure there are some sexual acts that you don't tolerate.

And that is gays are asking of us. "Accept us. Let us live our lives." But some of us still don't want to, because God told us what they do is evil.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I wish some gays would jump in here as say a few things.

Why would they? As a Baha'i I have nothing against them, they are free to be as they are, I will not judge them.

More then likely they will not embrace the Laws of the Baha'i Faith, but we can share life working together for the good of all.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And that is gays are asking of us. "Accept us. Let us live our lives." But some of us still don't want to, because God told us what they do is evil.

It's only people outside of Faith that are offering that we are not accepting of them CG.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

those rules applied to the nation of Israel, no one else.

And those rules were taken away at the approriate time. They were for a very specific purpose and time.

Did the problem go away? No. Then why doesn't God have his people go back to enforcing his law? And it would probably solve the over-population problem in a matter of years, or maybe even months.

 

[CG Didymus]

Why would they? As a Baha'i I have nothing against them, they are free to be as they are, I will not judge them.

More then likely they will not embrace the Laws of the Baha'i Faith, but we can share life working together for the good of all.

Regards Tony

Nothing against them? Well, good for you.

 

[danieldemol]

In other words you really want more ammunition to direct at the Baha'is?

If your teachings serve as ammunition against you, perhaps it's time to rethink your teachings.
In my opinion.

 

[CG Didymus]

It's only people outside of Faith that are offering that we are not accepting of them CG.

Regards Tony

I've read about some gay Baha'is that weren't accepted. I posted a link a few pages ago.

 

[dybmh]

In other words you really want more ammunition to direct at the Baha'is?

She offered, I was curious. Nothing more. I'm sorry that was your impression.