I think I am now an atheist

[firedragon]

Due to alternative explanations being more convincing to me

What are the alternative explanations that are "more" convincing? And how are they more convincing?

How can that eliminate the probability of a God's existence?

I am asking because I can't yet understand your position.

What I mean is, after much introspection I came to see that for me a belief in God was a defence mechanism for my fear of death as a belief in God alleviates fear of annihilation after death

But you are still gonna die right? Does the lack of belief in a God eliminate the fear of death?

How is it that an annihilation after death, what ever you mean by that make you believe in a God? You mean you intentionally made yourself to "believe" something "you don't believe" because there was "annihilation after death"?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Well, my non-belief is most certainly a belief system, obviously I cannot speak for others

No...you have a belief system (and we all do) of which atheism is a part. But atheism in and of itself is no system. It's a mere lack of belief in one thing. Or a belief in no God, if you prefer to put it that way. The lack of dogma means one atheist can be vastly different from another. For some reason, people try to equate atheism with a religion. So, you're a Catholic, or you're an atheist. It's why so many want to capitalise the first letter of atheism.

But theism is clearly not a single belief, nor a coherent religion, nor a proper noun. It denotes some level of belief in God, of course. And atheism is it's inverse. People make way more of it than it is.

 

[Eddi]

What are the alternative explanations that are "more" convincing? And how are they more convincing?

How can that eliminate the probability of a God's existence?

I am asking because I can't yet understand your position.

I rejected Theism in the form that it first came to me - as Christianity

I no longer believe in any of the claims of Christinaity

But I reject the other forms that it comes in too

Anything that needs a Supreme Being at its centre I now reject

So in answer to your question, I abandoned it as I can no longer support the notion of there being a Supreme Being - I only ever believed in it as a coping mechanism, not on the basis of any merit the arguments for it may have had

You mean you intentionally made yourself to "believe" something "you don't believe" because there was "annihilation after death"?

No, not intentionally

I believe sub-consciously

As a coping mechanism

I have only very recently realised this

Through introspection

Does the lack of belief in a God eliminate the fear of death?

For me a belief in God eliminated my fear of death

Now that I don't really believe in God I actually fear death more

But my belief in Simulation Theory negates this to a very great degree...

Maybe that's just another coping mechanism for me?????

 

[KWED]

When I was a teenager I described myself as an "Atheist" and advocated a position I called "Atheism"

This was an instance of Atheism being someone's belief system

And hardly an isolated instance either...

Therefore Atheism can be a person's belief system

Whether you like it or not

So what did your "atheist belief system" entail? What were you required to believe? What were the rules governing how you believed it?

 

[Eddi]

So what did your "atheist belief system" entail? What were you required to believe? What were the rules governing how you believed it?

It was a very personal belief system

So no requirements or rules

At that time in my life I had no rules or requirements for myself, as I do now

 

[KWED]

If God were so easy to find, believe in, and understand, He would not have allowed the serpent to turn Eve's mind around. God wasn't standing there when the serpent tempted Eve, telling her at that moment, "No! Don't do that!" Even if He had been, she might not have believed God. Yet He exacted the penalty.

If god is that well hidden, so difficult to find, sets so many tests and traps - how do you know you have found him? How do you know you haven't fallen prey to misguidance and others, whose claims you dismiss, have actually found god?

 

[KWED]

A belief in the profound and glaring absence of any credible evidence for there being a Supreme Being

But that is not a "belief". It is an "observation".

 

[Eddi]

But that is not a "belief". It is an "observation".

An observation which leads to a belief - or rather a disbelief.........

 

[KWED]

Well, my non-belief is most certainly a belief system, obviously I cannot speak for others

If you have positive belief in something, then it is a belief system - but it isn't "atheism", because that is a lack of belief.

So, what is it that you believe around the issue of gods that constitutes a belief system?

 

[KWED]

Before I started believing in God my atheism was a big part of who I was (and I think it is for others too) and I invested substantial energy into it

But of course that's just me

Hmm. Perhaps you are thinking of "anti-theist" rather than "atheist"? A belief that people need to be told that religion are wrong and gods do not exist?

 

[Eddi]

So, what is it that you believe around the issue of gods that constitutes a belief system?

That there is no good reason to listen to what God/The Gods supposedly has/have to say

That there is no reason to listen to religious authorities who quite scripture and claim to know the will of God

That they can be dismissed and ignored without suffering any ill consequence from anyone other than other humans

It fosters a belief system that structures beliefs around a rejection of religious and scriptural authority

 

[KWED]

Many, if not most, intensive atheists are adamant that atheism is merely the absence of belief, something I would not think warrants substantial energy.

I think there is often a conflation between "atheism" and "outspoken anti-theism". One may lead to the other but they are not the same thing.

I am an atheist. I am also an outspoken anti-theist. I know many atheists who are not. Their atheism has no impact on their lives or anyone else's.

 

[Eddi]

Hmm. Perhaps you are thinking of "anti-theist" rather than "atheist"? A belief that people need to be told that religion are wrong and gods do not exist?

I don't think I'd call myself an anti-theist

I dismiss the notion and have walked away from it

I do not outright hate God

I simply dismiss him

 

[KWED]

That there is no good reason to listen to what God/The Gods supposedly has/have to say

That there is no reason to listen to religious authorities who quite scripture and claim to know the will of God

That they can be dismissed and ignored without suffering any ill consequence from anyone other than other humans

It fosters a belief system that structures beliefs around a rejection of religious and scriptural authority

Yes, you are talking about anti-theism rather than atheism.

 

[Eddi]

Yes, you are talking about anti-theism rather than atheism.

OK then

If the shoe fits wear it

 

[firedragon]

I rejected Theism in the form that it first came to me - as Christianity

I no longer believe in any of the claims of Christinaity

But I reject the other forms that it comes in too

Anything that needs a Supreme Being at its centre I now reject

So in answer to your question, I abandoned it as I can no longer support the notion of there being a Supreme Being - I only ever believed in it as a coping mechanism, not on the basis of any merit the arguments for it may have had

I can see that you are making these statements, but you claimed that there is minimal probability and a possibility of Gods existence. On what basis is that a minimal probability? I asked this question, but you don't seem to have any answer but the same answer of an escape from the fear of death or as you now said a coping mechanism.

But that's not an answer to your claim that there is minimal probability.

For me a belief in God eliminated my fear of death

Now that I don't really believe in God I actually fear death more

But my belief in Simulation Theory negates this to a very great degree...

So you believe in a simulation theory. That means you have a substitution which is another belief. Another substitution to eliminate the fear of death.

It seems like your God is actually the fear of death. "Fear of death" is your God. Do you understand?

 

[Eddi]

On what basis is that a minimal probability?

Let's look at Theism in the form that I have always been most familiar with - Christianity

Christianity denies evolution and I see evolution as a fact

To me that's just one example of Theism being at odds with reality

So you believe in a simulation theory. That means you have a substitution which is another belief. Another substitution to eliminate the fear of death.

Absolutely, but unlike with Christianity I have compelling reasons to believe in Simulation Theory

It seems like your God is actually the fear of death. "Fear of death" is your God. Do you understand?

I see what you are getting at and I disagree

It is not so much death that I fear, it is more the annihilation that I believe comes along with it

I envy those who feel certain that life continues after death, and that life after death is a good thing

 

[firedragon]

Let's look at Theism in the form that I have always been most familiar with - Christianity

Christianity denies evolution and I see evolution as a fact

To me that's just one example of Theism being at odds with reality

How does that eliminate the probability of any existence of God? It does not. All your belief in evolution can do is build a belief in evolution, not eliminate God. That's absurd. I doubt this is even an elementary reason be it a good one.

Absolutely, but unlike with Christianity I have compelling reasons to believe in Simulation Theory

I would like to know what this "compelling reason" is. It will be good to know.

I see what you are getting at and I disagree

It is not so much death that I fear, it is more the annihilation that I believe comes along with it

I envy those who feel certain that life continues after death, and that life after death is a good thing

that's still your obsession. If you wish to replace it with this so called "annihilation" that comes along with death, what ever you mean by it, it is your God. That's your centre. Everything seems to revolve around it. Belief in one thing is replaced by the belief in another thing. Everything surrounding this fear of yours. I still cannot fathom how this is reason to eliminate God. To men, that's unbelievable.

 

[Eddi]

How does that eliminate the probability of any existence of God?

It means that Theistic accounts are less credible to me than naturalistic accounts

Which makes Atheism seem more convincing to me than (say for instance) Christianity

I would like to know what this "compelling reason" is. It will be good to know.

It's too complex and long and doesn't really matter...........

I still cannot fathom how this is reason to eliminate God. To men, that's unbelievable.

I now understand that the only reason I ever came to believe in God was because I was afraid of annihilation through death

As opposed to some other more valid reason

If you have good reasons to believe in God then good for you - I'm happy for you

But the point is, I didn't

I think basing one's religious affiliation on fear isn't a good way to go about things

Basically: For me there is no compelling reason to believe in God other than the fact that doing so alleviates fear of death - I believe that for me there is no good reason to believe in God other than out of fear of death and I believe that the safety Theism promises from annihilation is a false promise, something that cannot be delivered

So:

1) I only believed in God out of fear of death
2) I now don't believe that God can deliver me from death

Therefore from my perspective there is no reason or justification in being a Theist

 

[firedragon]

It means that Theistic accounts are less credible to me than naturalistic accounts

Which makes Atheism seem more convincing to me than (say for instance) Christianity

Another assertion. Do you have any proper reasoning or evidence for this? Do you see that again and again you are making the same kind of assertion without any reasoning? What is your evidence? What's your epistemology?

It's too complex and long and doesn't really matter...........

Okay.

I now understand that the only reason I ever came to believe in God was because I was afraid of annihilation through death

That's strange. I know you have repeated this so many times.

But the point is, I didn't

I think basing one's religious affiliation on fear isn't a good way to go about things

Basically: For me there is no compelling reason to believe in God other than the fact that doing so alleviates fear of death - I believe that for me there is no good reason to believe in God other than out of fear of death and I believe that the safety Theism promises from annihilation is a false promise, something that cannot be delivered

So:

1) I only believed in God out of fear of death
2) I now don't believe that God can deliver me from death

Therefore from my perspective there is no reason or justification in being a Theist

None of this is evidence to the lack of God. Or are they reasoning to eliminate God.

They are all just belief statements. Faith statements.