I think I am now an atheist

[Brian2]

Atheism means "absence of belief in deities." That is all it means. It does not entail making ritual sacrifices to the logarithmic tables, or to praising the holy ToE. The vast majority of atheists do not hold to the "belief that no gods can possibly exist," because we cannot know such a thing. We simply give the notion the same credence, with the same evidence, as we do to Santa Claus and the Great Green Arkleseizure (thank you @KWED).

That might be true for you but I have heard some atheists claim that they have a belief that there are no gods.
Actually I have read, in actual black and white, that atheism began as the belief that gods do not exist. I think this was back in the days of the ancient Greeks.
But yes, as you say, you cannot know such a thing even though there is more evidence for a God than for Santa Claus and the Great Green Arkleseizure imo.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That might be true for you but I have heard some atheists claim that they have a belief that there are no gods.
Actually I have read, in actual black and white, that atheism began as the belief that gods do not exist. I think this was back in the days of the ancient Greeks.
But yes, as you say, you cannot know such a thing even though there is more evidence for a God than for Santa Claus and the Great Green Arkleseizure imo.

Atheism, like theism, is a big tent. Yes, some atheists not only lack a belief in gods, they will claim that l people have proved it.

Did you know that some theists will claim that Jesus is God? They will even say that they can prove. Oddly enough others will say that about their own Gods

 

[Suave]

No!

By "slim" I mean only very slight

Possible but not at all probable

I'm very intrigued to know precisely who or what animates or reanimates us simulated characters, I honestly don't know if Christianly faith is a prerequisite for being among the Simulator's favorite characters who are to be reanimated into a paradise virtual reality world by God! I have failed to keep the faith; may God have mercy upon my soul.

"May the good Lord be with ya down every road you roam
And may sunshine and happiness surround you when you're far from home
And may you grow to be proud, dignified, and true
And do unto others as you would have done to you
Be courageous and be brave
And in my heart you'll always stay
Forever young, forever young
Forever young, forever young
May good fortune be with you, may your guiding light be strong
Build a stairway to heaven with a prince or a vagabond
And may you never love in vain
And in my heart you will remain
Forever young, forever young
Forever young, forever young
For-ever young
For-ever young
Yeah!
And when you finally fly away I'll be hopin' that I served you well
For all the wisdom of a lifetime no one can ever tell
But whatever road you choose
I'm right behind you, win or lose."
- Rod Stewart, Forever Young, (1988 A.D.)

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't think it makes sense. Atheism is a form of belief in the same way that not collecting stamps is a hobby.

I quite agree.

Atheism is at heart nothing more or less than a refusal to use a very badly defined term.

That is not even close to being much of a belief itself, let alone being a the basis for a belief system.

 

[Brian2]

All beliefs are subjective. The question is whether the belief is rational or not. When others can provide reasonable and reliable evidence for a deity then atheism will become irrational. But right now it appears to be the one rational position.

I would say the one justified position, outside of a belief in god/s, is "I don't know", and really with a definition of "lack of belief in god/s" that is what atheism means.
But it is, as I said, a subjective position and based on subjective views of what might be seen as evidence and subjective views of just what is needed as evidence to convince someone.
Of course with the internet there might be a broad teaching of atheists as to what might constitute real evidence for god/s.
This teaching probably comes from various gurus of atheism.
So in this respect many atheists can be seen as probably holding a certain set of beliefs related to their lack of belief, their "I don't know" position. This would be akin to apologetics for a belief I guess, because much of it seems to be about why god/s do not exist and not about "why we don't know".
But I guess that nothing that theist say is real evidence for god/s can be seen by atheists as real evidence because just one piece of real evidence really is proof positive.
I guess that is why many atheists hide behind the idea of "only empirical evidence is real evidence."

 

[Eddi]

I quite agree.

Atheism is at heart nothing more or less than a refusal to use a very badly defined term.

That is not even close to being enough to being a belief in itself, let alone being a belief system.

The thing is though, it can be treated like a belief system

Me existing proves this

Also, there are plenty of people here on RF who give their religion as "atheist" on the info that appears above their posts

 

[Subduction Zone]

I would say the one justified position, outside of a belief in god/s, is "I don't know", and really with a definition of "lack of belief in god/s" that is what atheism means.
But it is, as I said, a subjective position and based on subjective views of what might be seen as evidence and subjective views of just what is needed as evidence to convince someone.
Of course with the internet there might be a broad teaching of atheists as to what might constitute real evidence for god/s.
This teaching probably comes from various gurus of atheism.
So in this respect many atheists can be seen as probably holding a certain set of beliefs related to their lack of belief, their "I don't know" position. This would be akin to apologetics for a belief I guess, because much of it seems to be about why god/s do not exist and not about "why we don't know".
But I guess that nothing that theist say is real evidence for god/s can be seen by atheists as real evidence because just one piece of real evidence really is proof positive.
I guess that is why many atheists hide behind the idea of "only empirical evidence is real evidence."

Whoa! Hold your horses Nelly! How the heck is any belief in Gods justified.

A belief in Gods is on the same order as an atheist that declares there are no gods.

 

[Brian2]

Atheism, like theism, is a big tent. Yes, some atheists not only lack a belief in gods, they will claim that l people have proved it.

Did you know that some theists will claim that Jesus is God? They will even say that they can prove. Oddly enough others will say that about their own Gods

Yes some atheists have a positive belief that there are no god/s.
And some go so far as to call it a knowledge, as you seem to suggest.

 

[Colt]

I now realise that the only reason I ever made myself believe in God was out of fear of death and annihilation

Wishful thinking basically

I now see no compelling reason to believe in God

Therefore I think I'm going to have to come out as an atheist

Which is what I was for many years

Although I hope there is a God and recognise there is a slim chance of one existing

I still believe reality is a computer simulation though

Thats the problem with primitive Christianity as well as other religions. They try to scare people into faith rather than present the Loving God. Hell is a holdover from ancient shamanism. No blood sacrifices need to be provided, just go to god directly if you have been estranged.

 

[Brian2]

So what?

So nobody is justified to say that we have shown that a god/s is/are not needed.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The thing is though, it can be treated like a belief system

Me existing proves this

Also, there are plenty of people here on RF who give their religion as "atheist" on the info that appears above their posts

It is what it is. I think that I finally went full atheist when I was watching the Atheist experience on YouTube one day and a UPS driver recognized Matt Dillahunty. His comment was not negative at all, in fact rather positive. But I still reacted as if I had been caught watching porn. That was when I realized that I was an atheist, but I still had built in reactions based on my old beliefs.

 

[Eddi]

I'm very intrigued to know precisely who or what animates or reanimates us simulated characters, I honestly don't know if Christianly faith is a prerequisite for being among the Simulator's favorite characters who are to be reanimated into a paradise virtual reality world by God! I have failed to keep the faith; may God have mercy upon my soul.

I'm very intrigued to know precisely who or what animates or reanimates us simulated characters, I honestly don't know if Christianly faith is a prerequisite for being among the Simulator's favorite characters who are to be reanimated into a paradise virtual reality world by God! I have failed to keep the faith; may God have mercy upon my soul.

I wouldn't be so worried

I am pretty certain thatwhoever is in charge would be more interested in a person's good deeds than whatever faith they do or do not maintain

 

[Subduction Zone]

So nobody is justified to say that we have shown that a god/s is/are not needed.

That is not quite true. Everything that we know so far shows that a God is not needed. We don't have anything to the contrary.

 

[LuisDantas]

The thing is though, it can be treated like a belief system

Plenty of things can be treated like belief systems. I think that tells us a lot more about how belief systems are defined and used than about the merits of those things that are at their core.

Me existing proves this

May you please elaborate? It is not entirely clear what you mean here.

Also, there are plenty of people here on RF who give their religion as "atheist" on the info that appears above their posts

That is also true of many pools and censuses, but only as a matter of pragmatic delimitation - and even there it is at least arguable.

Both religious stances and belief positions are far more complex and even more dynamic than a simple single-answer question can make justice to.

 

[F1fan]

That might be true for you but I have heard some atheists claim that they have a belief that there are no gods.

I see this come from theists misrepresenting atheists more than atheists themselves. I have seen a few sloppy comments from atheists, but that is just sloppy language use. We don't believe that Santa or the Easter Bunny doesn't exist. We simply don't believe they are real.

Some theists try to switch the burden of proof by accusing atheists of having a belief in something they can't prove, which is a fallacy anyway because we can't prove negatives.

The odd thing is that these theists are attacking atheist's belief, and don't seem to realize that if atheists are wrong in their belief then theists can be wrong in their belief. So theists, be careful not to attack belief.

Actually I have read, in actual black and white, that atheism began as the belief that gods do not exist. I think this was back in the days of the ancient Greeks.

Belief in the nonexistence of things not known to exist is absurd. It's quite Rube Goldberg thinking.

But yes, as you say, you cannot know such a thing even though there is more evidence for a God than for Santa Claus and the Great Green Arkleseizure imo.

Really? I haven't seen any evidence for any gods. There actually was a person the Santa legend was built on. And Santa is a mortal, after all, and we know mortals exist. Apart from a flying sleigh and a fat man getting down chimneys, it is all plausible for Santa to exist, unlike gods.

 

[Brian2]

Whoa! Hold your horses Nelly! How the heck is any belief in Gods justified.

A belief in Gods is on the same order as an atheist that declares there are no gods.

Belief in God is justified if the person sees evidence for that belief, evidence that he/she cannot contradict. BUT that is just speaking on the level of reason and trying to prove or not if god/s exist.
Belief in god/s is justified because of that thing called faith. Stepping out past reason when reason while not leaving reason out of the equation.

That is what some atheists do, they go to a positive belief in the non existence of god/s.

 

[Brian2]

That is not quite true. Everything that we know so far shows that a God is not needed. We don't have anything to the contrary.

I would say that everything we have so far in science is neutral about whether god/s are needed.
But even if you were right that is no justification for saying that we know that god/s are not needed.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Belief in God is justified if the person sees evidence for that belief, evidence that he/she cannot contradict. BUT that is just speaking on the level of reason and trying to prove or not if god/s exist.
Belief in god/s is justified because of that thing called faith. Stepping out past reason when reason while not leaving reason out of the equation.

That is what some atheists do, they go to a positive belief in the non existence of god/s.

Most people have a very poor understanding of what qualifies as evidence.

And a faith based belief is the opposite of a justified belief.

It appears that you could not support that claim.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I would say that everything we have so far in science is neutral about whether god/s are needed.
But even if you were right that is no justification for saying that we know that god/s are not needed.

That may be because you are unaware of the arguments that others have used for the existence of God.

And I did not say that we know that no Gods are needed at all. But it is beginning to look that way.

 

[F1fan]

Belief in God is justified if the person sees evidence for that belief, evidence that he/she cannot contradict.

As we known many believers will "see" what reinforces and justifies what they already believe. This is why what a believer "sees" is not actual evidence.

That is what some atheists do, they go to a positive belief in the non existence of god/s.

The social pressure in most societies is to adopt the prevalent religious beliefs, including whatever version of God is believed. Atheists tend to adopt these beliefs and then subject them to scrutiny and reasoning, and in doing so realizes there is no rational basis to believe in supernatural concepts.