Anti-choicers: this is the fruit of your labour

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't see anything immoral about not killing unborn children because it's more convenient than letting them live. But maybe that's because Im actually pro life.

You do realize your posts in the gun control threads are there for everyone to see, right?

 

[74x12]

I think in states such as Texas and pretty much any state with so called “trigger anti abortion laws” (their words, not mine.)
This is what I found

For doctors, abortion restrictions create an 'impossible choice' when providing care

Critics Fear Abortion Bans Could Jeopardize Health of Pregnant Women

I was hoping for some more tangible evidence that things like this were taking place. It doesn't look like anything but baseless speculation about what might happen. It's worrying and fear mongering imo.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I was hoping for some more tangible evidence that things like this were taking place. It doesn't look like anything but baseless speculation about what might happen. It's worrying and fear mongering imo.

There have been articles posted about problems that doctors have had at hospitals when it comes to treating pregnant women in the ER. They were afraid of possible consequences if they felt a need to abort.

 

[74x12]

There have been articles posted about problems that doctors have had at hospitals when it comes to treating pregnant women in the ER. They were afraid of possible consequences if they felt a need to abort.

If that is correct then that is an issue that can be dealt with.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If that is correct then that is an issue that can be dealt with.

Such optimism. Why do you support this evil action anyway? Are you willing to enter into a nine month slavery for a minor mistake of yours?

 

[74x12]

Such optimism. Why do you support this evil action anyway? Are you willing to enter into a nine month slavery for a minor mistake of yours?

Speaking of slavery ... would you support slavery if someone told you that black people aren't really human? Think about it ... that's what abortionists say about unborn children. They're just fetuses and some even say parasites. They aren't human right?

 

[SomeRandom]

I was hoping for some more tangible evidence that things like this were taking place. It doesn't look like anything but baseless speculation about what might happen. It's worrying and fear mongering imo.

Well as I’m not American I can’t say for sure, really.
But as there is precedent for such occurrences happening in countries where abortion was heavily legally restricted (Ireland) I’d say they’re more educated guesses as to the actual ramifications of the R v W decision. That Ohio has literally just denied a 10 year old child rape victim an abortion on such grounds recently bolsters that view.
Pro life folks want to contend that abortion is murder?
Fine by me.
Every single woman, child and person able to become pregnant who dies in the US because they were denied an abortion, their blood is on the hands of said movement, as far as I’m concerned.
The pro life movement? Nothing but murderers in my eyes. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Take your licks. That’s all I’m saying

 

[Subduction Zone]

Speaking of slavery ... would you support slavery if someone told you that black people aren't really human? Think about it ... that's what abortionists say about unborn children. They're just fetuses and some even say parasites. They aren't human right?

Sorry, but you are trying to justify the slavery of the pregnant woman. Bodily autonomy gives her the right to her body.

But to get to your question, at least for the first five months or so they are not persons. A person is someone with a functioning brain. Hospitals can pull the plug on people that are brain dead. They could often keep them "alive" for a very long time, but they can't get better. They were alive but once the brain is gone they are no longer a living person.

The same should apply to fetuses. Until there is a functioning brain it is not a person.

Let's see if you can be reasonable or if you are just into unjustly controlling the bodies of others:

What would you say to no elective abortions after 5 months? How would you justify a ban on an abortion before that time? Just to save you some time, a potential human is not a human.

 

[Mister Emu]

"Human life begins at fertilization"
"A zygote is the beginning of a new human being" - The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology. 7th edition.

"...there is one fact that no one can deny; Human beings begin at conception." - Landrum Shettles, IVF pioneer.

 

[Subduction Zone]

"Human life begins at fertilization"
"A zygote is the beginning of a new human being" - The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology. 7th edition.

"...there is one fact that no one can deny; Human beings begin at conception." - Landrum Shettles, IVF pioneer.

Human but not a person. A body that is alive is not a person either and can have the plug pulled at a hospital. It is still a human body, but it is no longer a person.

 

[Wildswanderer]

You do realize your posts in the gun control threads are there for everyone to see, right?

Guns save more lives in this country than they take. But that's another thread.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Every single woman, child and person able to become pregnant who dies in the US because they were denied an abortion, their blood is on the hands of said movement, as far as I’m concerned.
The pro life movement? Nothing but murderers in my eyes. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Take your licks. That’s all I’m saying

That's an illogical view, but if you want to think that way, that's still a whole lot less blood than is on the pro abortion crowd's hands.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Guns save more lives in this country than they take. But that's another thread.

That is a mere belief and based upon poor logic.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's an illogical view, but if you want to think that way, that's still a whole lot less blood than is on the pro abortion crowd's hands.

Except that we can prove that those that died due to antiabortionists are people. You cannot prove the same about a fetus, embryo or zygote.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Except that we can prove that those that died due to antiabortionists are people. You cannot prove the same about a fetus, embryo or zygote.

No one dies due to anti-abortionists. In the very rare case where a mother's life is threatened, the hospitals will do what is needed.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No one dies due to anti-abortionists. In the very rare case where a mother's life is threatened, the hospitals will do what is needed.

BS!! There have been threads about cases of that.

Please, don't make me laugh.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Speaking of slavery ... would you support slavery if someone told you that black people aren't really human?

That, of course, did occur, and part of that was forced breeding by slave owners to continue slavery in America once the slave trade was outlawed. Women forced to give birth to enslave their children.

Think about it ... that's what abortionists say about unborn children. They're just fetuses and some even say parasites. They aren't human right?

They are potential humans, but not realized persons with a functioning sense of self or ability to suffer like the pregnant female.

Consider that the female body WILL protect itself against the potential human if it poses a threat:

"Given the invasive nature of pregnancy, it’s perhaps not surprising that the primate womb has evolved to be wary of committing to it. Mammals whose placentae don’t breach the walls of the womb can simply abort or reabsorb unwanted foetuses at any stage of pregnancy. For primates, any such manoeuvre runs the risk of haemorrhage, as the placenta rips away from the mother’s enlarged and paralysed arterial system. And that, in a sentence, is why miscarriages are so dangerous.

It’s also why primates make every effort to test their embryos before they allow them to implant. The embryo is walled out by the tight-packed cells of the endometrium, while an intimate hormonal dialogue takes place. This conversation is, in Haig’s words, a ‘job interview’. Should the embryo fail to convince its mother that it is a perfectly normal, healthy individual, it will be summarily expelled."

Why pregnancy is a biological war between mother and baby | Aeon Essays

The article also describes why some people describe developing fetuses as parasites:

"In primates and mice, it’s a different story. Cells from the invading placenta digest their way through the endometrial surface, puncturing the mother’s arteries, swarming inside and remodelling them to suit the foetus. Outside of pregnancy, these arteries are tiny, twisty things spiralling through depths of the uterine wall. The invading placental cells paralyse the vessels so they cannot contract, then pump them full of growth hormones, widening them tenfold to capture more maternal blood. These foetal cells are so invasive that colonies of them often persist in the mother for the rest of her life, having migrated to her liver, brain and other organs. There’s something they rarely tell you about motherhood: it turns women into genetic chimeras."

 

[Sand Dancer]

That, of course, did occur, and part of that was forced breeding by slave owners to continue slavery in America once the slave trade was outlawed. Women forced to give birth to enslave their children.



They are potential humans, but not realized persons with a functioning sense of self or ability to suffer like the pregnant female.

Consider that the female body WILL protect itself against the potential human if it poses a threat:

"Given the invasive nature of pregnancy, it’s perhaps not surprising that the primate womb has evolved to be wary of committing to it. Mammals whose placentae don’t breach the walls of the womb can simply abort or reabsorb unwanted foetuses at any stage of pregnancy. For primates, any such manoeuvre runs the risk of haemorrhage, as the placenta rips away from the mother’s enlarged and paralysed arterial system. And that, in a sentence, is why miscarriages are so dangerous.

It’s also why primates make every effort to test their embryos before they allow them to implant. The embryo is walled out by the tight-packed cells of the endometrium, while an intimate hormonal dialogue takes place. This conversation is, in Haig’s words, a ‘job interview’. Should the embryo fail to convince its mother that it is a perfectly normal, healthy individual, it will be summarily expelled."

Why pregnancy is a biological war between mother and baby | Aeon Essays

The article also describes why some people describe developing fetuses as parasites:

"In primates and mice, it’s a different story. Cells from the invading placenta digest their way through the endometrial surface, puncturing the mother’s arteries, swarming inside and remodelling them to suit the foetus. Outside of pregnancy, these arteries are tiny, twisty things spiralling through depths of the uterine wall. The invading placental cells paralyse the vessels so they cannot contract, then pump them full of growth hormones, widening them tenfold to capture more maternal blood. These foetal cells are so invasive that colonies of them often persist in the mother for the rest of her life, having migrated to her liver, brain and other organs. There’s something they rarely tell you about motherhood: it turns women into genetic chimeras."

Sounds like a horror movie.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Sounds like a horror movie.

The article is...vividly written! But I think 8t does a good job of highlighting the reality between a developing fetus and the developed female that anti-choice folk ignore.

 

[SkepticThinker]

That's the point.
It seems that people are more interested in this little girl having an abortion and not interested at all in finding the perpetrator that got her pregnant.

Both are important. Can we not walk and chew gun at the same time?
In the case of the abortion, time is of the essence.