Why I believe America will soon lose its democracy.

[F1fan]

Legal has nothing to do with right and wrong.

Really? If that is the case then illegal has nothing to do with right or wrong, either.

So then if the law has nothing to do with right or wrong, who in a secular society decides right or wrong? You far right religious extremists? What gives you the right to decide what is right for the whole nation? The majority support reproduction access, not your side of intolerant extremists.

And I suspect that roe vs Wade will soon be overturned. People are truly waking up. As opposed to the so called " woke" leftist nut cases.

No, your side is the minority. You are imposing your religious beliefs onto the majority of people in a society that is supposed to be ruled secularly.

What this decision will likely do is wake the majority to realize they cannot trust republicans in office because they push religious views onto the majority. Ay some point this will backfire against republicans.

 

[F1fan]

By allowing her to live a life free of guilt. To allow her to bring beauty from the ashes.

You didn't answer the question by SkepticThinker:

So you think blastocysts/zygotes/fetuses are more important/valuable than all the actual lives taken by gun violence?

 

[Polymath257]

Birth isn't ugly. Unnecessary death is ugly.
Some people don't understand the matrix. I get that. They think you can get a positive by doing a negative. Nope. But you can take a negative someone else did and bring something positive from it. Beauty can come from the ashes of sin. Life can even come from despicable acts. But we have to be willing to allow it to. We have to stand for life instead of bowing to death.

I find this lack of understanding and compassion to be unbelievably horrid.

You can get a positive by preventing a negative (having a young girl who was raped having to go through the pregnancy and delivery).

 

[F1fan]

I find this lack of understanding and compassion to be unbelievably horrid.

You can get a positive by preventing a negative (having a young girl who was raped having to go through the pregnancy and delivery).

This illustrates how the ideals that rigid theists hold are not workable in reality. Morals are often very complex and have to account for a variety of factors. The absolute and ideal of the far right does not work in all cases, and this example shows us. The religious can't offer a truly moral solution. They fall back on their ideal but it is also immoral. They have to ignore the harm their ideals cause or perpetuate because they refuse to consider they may be mistaken. That is what makes them dangerous.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Birth isn't ugly. Unnecessary death is ugly.
Some people don't understand the matrix. I get that. They think you can get a positive by doing a negative. Nope. But you can take a negative someone else did and bring something positive from it. Beauty can come from the ashes of sin. Life can even come from despicable acts. But we have to be willing to allow it to. We have to stand for life instead of bowing to death.

And back to the girl (which for some reason, though it was the central part of my question, you ignored) -- what about her? Since she's already been screwed, I guess you think being screwed some more is all she deserves?

 

[Wildswanderer]

And back to the girl (which for some reason, though it was the central part of my question, you ignored) -- what about her? Since she's already been screwed, I guess you think being screwed some more is all she deserves?

Creating life within yourself isn't " being screwed".
Have you ever been with a pregnant woman or witnessed the miracle of birth?

 

[Wildswanderer]

You can get a positive by preventing a negative

You can not bring life from death. Only God can do that.
It's not logical to expect good to come from an evil act.

 

[Wildswanderer]

You didn't answer the question by SkepticThinker:

So you think blastocysts/zygotes/fetuses are more important/valuable than all the actual lives taken by gun violence?

Both have equal value.

 

[Polymath257]

Creating life within yourself isn't " being screwed".
Have you ever been with a pregnant woman or witnessed the miracle of birth?

Yes. Both.

Have you ever been with a woman who doesn't want to be pregnant and is? Have you ever talked to a woman who had an abortion and regards it as the best choice she had at the time and never regretted it? Have you ever had a 'pregnancy scare'? Have you ever been pregnant and given birth?

Being pregnant and not wanting to be *is* being screwed.

 

[Polymath257]

You can not bring life from death. Only God can do that.
It's not logical to expect good to come from an evil act.

it isn't an evil act to remove a fetus from a woman who doesn't want to be pregnant. To do otherwise would be the evil: it would effectively make the woman a slave to her fetus.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Really? If that is the case then illegal has nothing to do with right or wrong, either.

True. Just because something is illegal doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong. For example it was illegal in some places to have a church service with 10 people during covid.

 

[F1fan]

Creating life within yourself isn't " being screwed".

Who are you to make that decision for her if she feels otherwise? Are you her parent, or just some bystander with no interest except for what your religious beliefs assert?

Have you ever been with a pregnant woman or witnessed the miracle of birth?

Irrelevant. How any individual women feels and thinks is not our right to limit or pressure. She has a legal right to make a decision to terminate. The far religious right are making this THEIR decision.

 

[Wildswanderer]

it isn't an evil act to remove a fetus from a woman who doesn't want to be pregnant. To do otherwise would be the evil: it would effectively make the woman a slave to her fetus.

That's your opinion and again it's expecting two wrongs to create right. That's not how reality works in

 

[Polymath257]

Both have equal value.

And that shows just how extreme some people can be. To equate a living, breathing, conscious person to a embryo is silly on the face of it.

 

[Polymath257]

That's your opinion and again it's expecting two wrongs to create right. That's not how reality works in

I don't consider it to be a wrong to remove an embryo or fetus from a woman who doesn't want to be pregnant.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Irrelevant. How any individual women feels and thinks is not our right to limit or pressure. She has a legal right to make a decision to terminate.

If that's how you feel, you should also support genocide. If I have a severely handicapped toddler, is restricting my rights to have a good life... Why can't I terminate him?

 

[F1fan]

True. Just because something is illegal doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong. For example it was illegal in some places to have a church service with 10 people during covid.

So you avoided the follow up question: who decides right or wrong?

We can see from your posts that you believe it is your far right religious minority. Why not allow individual freedom to decide? What makes your side correct and the alternative wrong?

 

[Wildswanderer]

And that shows just how extreme some people can be. To equate a living, breathing, conscious person to a embryo is silly on the face of it.

They are both human beings. Why would they be different? Because one has not been born yet? That's silly.

 

[Polymath257]

If that's how you feel, you should also support genocide. If I have a severely handicapped toddler, is restricting my rights to have a good life... Why can't I terminate him?

There is a difference between someone who has been born, is breathing, is conscious and a fetus that is none of those.

 

[Wildswanderer]

So you avoided the follow up question: who decides right or wrong?

We can see from your posts that you believe it is your far right religious minority. Why not allow individual freedom to decide? What makes your side correct and the alternative wrong?

In America the majority vote is supposed to decide. If roe versus wages is overturned I guess you know what the will of the majority was.