Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That might be true, but that in no way addresses the reasons they are happy.
It also does not address whether some people can be just as happy outside of a religious community.
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Are believers happier than atheists?
- Thread starter Trailblazer
- Start date
It also does not address whether some people can be just as happy outside of a religious community.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
What any of this have to do with science?
Do you so disrespect psychology that you completely disregard human individuation?
Everyone has a different personality type and some of us are not in a majority type. I am an INFJ and I do not want to be like everyone else. That is probably why I do not feel comfortable as part of a religious group.
Is INFJ a rare personality type?
INFJ is the rarest personality type across the population, occurring in just 2% of the population. It is also the rarest personality type among men. INFJ stands for Introversion, Intuition, Feeling, and Judging. This unique combination is hard to find in most people.Sep 28, 2021
What is the Rarest Personality Type? - Truity
JDMS
Academic Workhorse
Yeah, there are a lot of confounding factions it seems. By chance, hours per week spent at religious services or events was one of the factors examined by a psychology study I had to review on depressive symptoms and suicide-related outcomes in US adolescents. They examined a lot of other stuff too and found the largest correlation to be between time spent on electronic devices. However, they also found a large negative correlation between depressive symptoms/suicide-related outcomes and in-person interaction. This included religious services. Just looking at the correlation values you could see that the religious services had the same negative correlation as any of the other forms of in-person interaction. So is it religious activities or in-person interaction and feelings of community that make a person happy? Who knows. This is why these kinds of discussions are hard. Research on it is hard. Quantifying happiness is hard. Etc.
If I had to guess, there are dozens of confounding variables making some religious people 'happier' than non religious people. I don't believe the people who use 'Christian joy' as proof of God's existence or truth either. Luckily not everyone claims that, lol.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
No, we don't know why specifically religious communities make people happier. Still, the fact stands that they are.
What does the rarity of INFJ temperement have to do with anything?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Science, especially the sciences of pychology, sociology, and anthropology are jam packed full of statistical truths gained from peer reviewed studies.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Interesting.... This kind of negates the claim that people who participate in religious groups are happier than those who don't. Having had a history of depression I can surmise as to why that participation might make one depressed.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Religious communities do not 'make people happier' unless we know why people in religious groups are happier.
We don't know that it is simply being part of the religious community that makes them happier.
It demonstrates that all people are not like the majority personality types and if they are not like them then they won't be happier doing what the majority do. I cannot imagine anything more boring attending a study group, a devotional or a prayer meeting. Many Baha'is enjoy these activities but I don't.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Yes, they are jam packed, and I would be willing to bet I could find studies that refute what you presented.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
You placed within MY uqote "Religious communities do not 'make people happier' unless we know why people in religious groups are happier." I did not say this. These are your words, and I'm very angry that you attributed them to me.
You can in fact say that religious community is correlated with happiness without knowing why.
Look, you are simply contesting scientific studies. I have used up all my patience for anti-science talk. I won't reply to you further on this topic. You can have the last word.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
That's true.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Sorry, but I did not do that on purpose. That was a mistake, and I just corrected it.
You can say that and not ask why, but I want to know why.
You have not presented any 'scientific studies' that show religious community is correlated with happiness. All studies are not scientific studies.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Did you mean "that's true" that those kinds of Baha'is have no understanding of human suffering or did you mean "that's true" that I steer away from those kinds of Baha'is?
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
No, it's true that some Baha'is believe we can all be happy because we believe in Baha'u'llah. That's not true.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Sure we want to know why. But it is a truth whether we know the why or not.
I included a journal article. It is not the only one, but it did fit the bill. Scroll up.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It might be 'the truth' statistically speaking but it does not apply to me since I am not part of the group of happy people who are part of a religious community. The fact that there are people who are not part of a religious community who are happy shows that is also the truth.
Is it scientific? I mean was it proven by the scientific method, or is it just statistics based on surveys?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Wow. Just wow. Do you not know what a peer reviewed journal is an their importance to sceintific method? Do you not know that science does use surveys? Just wow. Where did you grow up that you are so unfamiliar with scientific method?
Heyo
Veteran Member
The US has some very wealthy people but also a big wealth inequality so there are also many poor people in the US, more than in most other industrialized nations. And the fear of becoming poor is much greater because the social net is abysmal. Fear and uncertainty is also connected to religiosity.
Heyo
Veteran Member
I accept the statistics and I want to add one: religious people have, on average, a 5 points lower IQ than non believers.
Maybe there is a hidden connection? Maybe "ignorance is bliss" and not thinking (overthinking?) is what makes people happy?
Add to that that social contacts are generally seen as good for mental health (religious or not) and the combination explains the data.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
It is not.
Being part of a supportive community is always beneficial for mental health and by extension the "happiness" level.
The operative word here, is "supportive".
Some communities (including religious ones) are just toxic and detrimental to mental health, and thus also detrimental to the happiness level.
We are a social species and we thrive in stable, supportive social structures.
It's just common sense. The ultimate nature of the community is not really important.
It can be a church, a mosque, a sports club, a card club, just a bunch of friends, family, a charity, a music band, .....
EDIT: looked it up. Here you go:
Why Religion Makes People Happier (Hint: Not God) | Live Science
It says right there in the study... it's not the religious part that makes those people happier. It's the social structure that piggy backs with it. Meaning that the happiness comes from social networks and being part of a supportive community.
This means that you can achieve the exact same thing WITHOUT religion and with JUST the social networking / being part of a supportive community.
Let's see if you are still going to go "with the science" after reading that.
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TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Being part of a supportive community benefits mental health and thus happiness. Regardless of that community existing in context of a religion or not.
PS: if you are going to cite statistics to make a point, then the decent thing to do is mention which you are talking about and / or share a link to it.
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