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Are believers happier than atheists?

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Are believers happier than atheists?

It is my contention that believers are no happier than atheists and that there is no correlation between belief in God and happiness.

I think atheists can and do have happy lives, and many of them are happier than believers. I don't think that personal happiness is derived from belief in God, although one could argue that unlike personal happiness, spiritual happiness is derived from belief in God and a religion, and practicing that religion.

Do believers really rely upon God and their religion for their happiness? I highly doubt it. To test my hypothesis, if all the material things and physical pleasures that make most people happy were suddenly taken away how happy would they be? Would they still be happy worshiping God with only the bare essentials? That is certainly not how I see most people living although that is what most religions teach, particularly Christianity (Matthew 16:24-26, John 12:24-26) and also the Baha’i Faith.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I think that personal happiness is determined by a combination of factors such as childhood upbringing, heredity, education, adult experiences, and present life circumstances. All of these can be considered ‘causes’ or ‘reasons’ why people use their free will to make life choices that lead to happiness or unhappiness. However, free will is circumscribed by many factors such as ability and opportunity so true free will is very limited.

Although we have free will there are many things that happen to us that are not freely chosen. Life events such as death, sickness, injuries, accidents and other misfortunes are beyond our control and we are compelled to endure them. These are not subject to the free will of man so man is not responsible for them. These events are our fate, predestined by God, thus God is responsible for them.

I believe that God determines much of our well-being or lack thereof, since our childhood upbringing and heredity are predestined and these largely determine our lot in life, including our level of education, our adult experiences, and present life circumstances. If God is responsible for our fate, whether we have a happy life or a life of suffering is largely determined by God. Most believers want to credit God with all the good things that happen in life but they fail to look at anything else. I consider this highly illogical.
 

MikeF

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Are believers happier than atheists?

It is my contention that believers are no happier than atheists and that there is no correlation between belief in God and happiness.

I think atheists can and do have happy lives, and many of them are happier than believers. I don't think that personal happiness is derived from belief in God, although one could argue that unlike personal happiness, spiritual happiness is derived from belief in God and a religion, and practicing that religion.

Do believers really rely upon God and their religion for their happiness? I highly doubt it. To test my hypothesis, if all the material things and physical pleasures that make most people happy were suddenly taken away how happy would they be? Would they still be happy worshiping God with only the bare essentials? That is certainly not how I see most people living although that is what most religions teach, particularly Christianity (Matthew 16:24-26, John 12:24-26) and also the Baha’i Faith.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I think that personal happiness is determined by a combination of factors such as childhood upbringing, heredity, education, adult experiences, and present life circumstances. All of these can be considered ‘causes’ or ‘reasons’ why people use their free will to make life choices that lead to happiness or unhappiness. However, free will is circumscribed by many factors such as ability and opportunity so true free will is very limited.

Although we have free will there are many things that happen to us that are not freely chosen. Life events such as death, sickness, injuries, accidents and other misfortunes are beyond our control and we are compelled to endure them. These are not subject to the free will of man so man is not responsible for them. These events are our fate, predestined by God, thus God is responsible for them.

I believe that God determines much of our well-being or lack thereof, since our childhood upbringing and heredity are predestined and these largely determine our lot in life, including our level of education, our adult experiences, and present life circumstances. If God is responsible for our fate, whether we have a happy life or a life of suffering is largely determined by God. Most believers want to credit God with all the good things that happen in life but they fail to look at anything else. I consider this highly illogical.

I agree with everything you say except all the God parts. :)

Your view that if God gets credit for the good things, it stands God must also be on the hook for bad things quite refreshing.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Are believers happier than atheists?

It is my contention that believers are no happier than atheists and that there is no correlation between belief in God and happiness.

For a person seeking to be happy, it has been scientifically proven that the ultimate goal to achieving the most happiness possible in this life is a $400,000 a year salary.
Believer/non-believer, doesn't matter.

So science agrees with you 100%
The biggest indicator of how happy you are is not religion but money.

Not to say IMO, you can't be poor and also happy, but the level of happiness it is possible to experience dramatically increases with the size of your paycheck.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
For a person seeking to be happy, it has been scientifically proven that the ultimate goal to achieving the most happiness possible in this life is a $400,000 a year salary.
Believer/non-believer, doesn't matter.

So science agrees with you 100%
The biggest indicator of how happy you are is not religion but money.

Not to say IMO, you can't be poor and also happy, but the level of happiness it is possible to experience dramatically increases with the size of your paycheck.
I guess that would also apply to one's net worth...
If one's net worth has anything to do with happiness I should be really happy, but I don't think it does. I am grateful for the wealth I have but my happiness is not derived from my wealth, and all the money and assets does no good if a person does not have their health and they die. I am very healthy but my husband is very ill, and no money, God or religion is going to change that.

I do not believe that money buys happiness because if that was true all wealthy people would be happy and such is not the case. Conversely, if being poor causes unhappiness then all poor people would be unhappy, but such is not the case. Many poor people are very happy with what they have. I think personal happiness has more to do with good relationships, family and friends, and enjoying the life one has.
 
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Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I guess that would also apply to one's net worth...
If one's net worth has anything to do with happiness I should be really happy, but I don't think it does. I am grateful for the wealth I have but my happiness is not derived from my wealth, and all the money and assets does no good if a person does not have their health and they die. I am very healthy but my husband is very ill, and no money, God or religion is going to change that.

I do not believe that money buys happiness because if that was true all wealthy people would be happy and such is not the case. Conversely, if being poor cause unhappiness then all poor people would be unhappy, but such is not the case. Many poor people are very happy with what they have. I think personal happiness has more to do with good relationships, family and friends, and enjoying the life one has.

Yes, of course, physical wellbeing is important, though I think I'd rather be in ill health and well off than to be in ill health and poor.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Yes, of course, physical wellbeing is important, though I think I'd rather be in ill health and well off than to be in ill health and poor.
Yes, I agree, especially since being well off gives one more resources to deal with illness.
 

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Are believers happier than atheists?

It is my contention that believers are no happier than atheists and that there is no correlation between belief in God and happiness.

I think atheists can and do have happy lives, and many of them are happier than believers. I don't think that personal happiness is derived from belief in God, although one could argue that unlike personal happiness, spiritual happiness is derived from belief in God and a religion, and practicing that religion.

Do believers really rely upon God and their religion for their happiness? I highly doubt it. To test my hypothesis, if all the material things and physical pleasures that make most people happy were suddenly taken away how happy would they be? Would they still be happy worshiping God with only the bare essentials? That is certainly not how I see most people living although that is what most religions teach, particularly Christianity (Matthew 16:24-26, John 12:24-26) and also the Baha’i Faith.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I think that personal happiness is determined by a combination of factors such as childhood upbringing, heredity, education, adult experiences, and present life circumstances. All of these can be considered ‘causes’ or ‘reasons’ why people use their free will to make life choices that lead to happiness or unhappiness. However, free will is circumscribed by many factors such as ability and opportunity so true free will is very limited.

Although we have free will there are many things that happen to us that are not freely chosen. Life events such as death, sickness, injuries, accidents and other misfortunes are beyond our control and we are compelled to endure them. These are not subject to the free will of man so man is not responsible for them. These events are our fate, predestined by God, thus God is responsible for them.

I believe that God determines much of our well-being or lack thereof, since our childhood upbringing and heredity are predestined and these largely determine our lot in life, including our level of education, our adult experiences, and present life circumstances. If God is responsible for our fate, whether we have a happy life or a life of suffering is largely determined by God. Most believers want to credit God with all the good things that happen in life but they fail to look at anything else. I consider this highly illogical.
There's a difference between happy and " joy".

Joy has little to do with happiness as we think of it. It has to do with being content even when we're sad. That's what Jesus offered, not happiness.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I would say that the belief that we and our loved ones have an eternal spirit which continues on after death for greater things is a more happiness-inspiring belief than materialism.

Although there does not necessarily have to be a connection between theism and spiritualism (or between atheism and materialism) the correspondence is extremely high in my experience.

That said. at the ground level of everyday life, the difference between atheist and theist happiness does not seem all that great. It almost seems a side issue to people's happiness level.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Happiness comes and goes. Fulfillment that brings joy is a more meaningful pursuit.

Pleasure is short lived.

I think it rather impossible to determine who has more joy, religious, or non religious. Anybody can be happy.

I truly wonder how many people actually experience true love, in terms of understanding it, and in platonic relationships. My guess is that true love is something many, many people have never experienced it so they live not ever knowing it. True love seems to be something a lot of people throw under the bus. Chalk it down to chemical reactions in the form of emotions.

True Love is the only way to experience joy. It's the only reason I hunt to find if God exists, though I really can't reconcile nature with a God.

Joy isn't happiness. Joy is enduring fulfillment, peace, and often has to endure hardships, and all kinds of things, including conflicts of all the worst kinds of things.

Perhaps true love faithful people are more like soldiers on the front lines of a war, moreso than people who are fully taken care of by God. I don't see where religion comes into play on the matter.

I know my mother had joy at the fact that her loved ones sacrificed to make sure she was taken care of because she always cared for her loved ones as well. Religion never entered into it.

Maybe God don't want to be known. Life is a battle for those on Earth, not in heaven. On second thought, nahhh, I'm still atheist.

There's something out there though, I just call it the highest power.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
There's a difference between happy and " joy".

Joy has little to do with happiness as we think of it. It has to do with being content even when we're sad. That's what Jesus offered, not happiness.
I understand the Bible definition of joy:

"Joy is a beautiful emotion to experience. It’s the feeling you get when you’re ecstatic about going on vacation, when you’re laughing with friends, or when you’re simply with a loved one. Joy is just a feeling, however, and it can leave us in an instant depending on our circumstances in life. But, biblical joy is a different kind of joy.

What is the biblical definition of joy? The biblical definition of joy says that joy is a feeling of good pleasure and happiness that is dependent on who Jesus is rather than on who we are or what is happening around us. Joy comes from the Holy Spirit, abiding in God’s presence and from hope in His word."
What Is The Biblical Definition Of Joy? Examples & Importance

but that is not the standard definition of joy:

Definition of joy

1a : the emotion evoked by well-being, success, or good fortune or by the prospect of possessing what one desires : delight
b : the expression or exhibition of such emotion : gaiety
2 : a state of happiness or felicity : bliss
3 : a source or cause of delight
Definition of JOY

I do not believe a person can be sad and joyful at the same time because that is a logical contradiction. As noted below, "When sadness visits us we become weak, our strength leaves us, our comprehension is dim and our intelligence veiled. The actualities of life seem to elude our grasp, the eyes of our spirits fail to discover the sacred mysteries."

However, I understand what Jesus was offering because it is also taught in the Baha'i Faith that the spiritual world bestows only the joy.

“In this world we are influenced by two sentiments, Joy and Pain.

Joy gives us wings! In times of joy our strength is more vital, our intellect keener, and our understanding less clouded. We seem better able to cope with the world and to find our sphere of usefulness. But when sadness visits us we become weak, our strength leaves us, our comprehension is dim and our intelligence veiled. The actualities of life seem to elude our grasp, the eyes of our spirits fail to discover the sacred mysteries, and we become even as dead beings.

There is no human being untouched by these two influences; but all the sorrow and the grief that exist come from the world of matter—the spiritual world bestows only the joy!

If we suffer it is the outcome of material things, and all the trials and troubles come from this world of illusion.”
Paris Talks, pp. 109-112


.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
New I would say that the belief that we and our loved ones have an eternal spirit which continues on after death for greater things is a more happiness-inspiring belief than materialism.
I think it is when we really believe it. Materialism does nothing for me, it does not cause happiness.
 

Sgt. Pepper

All you need is love.
Are believers happier than atheists?

It is my contention that believers are no happier than atheists and that there is no correlation between belief in God and happiness.

I think atheists can and do have happy lives, and many of them are happier than believers. I don't think that personal happiness is derived from belief in God, although one could argue that unlike personal happiness, spiritual happiness is derived from belief in God and a religion, and practicing that religion.

Do believers really rely upon God and their religion for their happiness? I highly doubt it. To test my hypothesis, if all the material things and physical pleasures that make most people happy were suddenly taken away how happy would they be? Would they still be happy worshiping God with only the bare essentials? That is certainly not how I see most people living although that is what most religions teach, particularly Christianity (Matthew 16:24-26, John 12:24-26) and also the Baha’i Faith.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I think that personal happiness is determined by a combination of factors such as childhood upbringing, heredity, education, adult experiences, and present life circumstances. All of these can be considered ‘causes’ or ‘reasons’ why people use their free will to make life choices that lead to happiness or unhappiness. However, free will is circumscribed by many factors such as ability and opportunity so true free will is very limited.

Although we have free will there are many things that happen to us that are not freely chosen. Life events such as death, sickness, injuries, accidents and other misfortunes are beyond our control and we are compelled to endure them. These are not subject to the free will of man so man is not responsible for them. These events are our fate, predestined by God, thus God is responsible for them.

I believe that God determines much of our well-being or lack thereof, since our childhood upbringing and heredity are predestined and these largely determine our lot in life, including our level of education, our adult experiences, and present life circumstances. If God is responsible for our fate, whether we have a happy life or a life of suffering is largely determined by God. Most believers want to credit God with all the good things that happen in life but they fail to look at anything else. I consider this highly illogical.

While I'm not an atheist, I'm certainly happier with my life since I'm no longer a Christian. I also feel joy and peace in my heart, which is something I never felt during the 30 years I was a Christian. There's no doubt in my mind that I'm much better off mentally and emotionally since I renounced my Christian faith and began to deprogram myself from all the Christian indoctrination I was exposed to throughout my lifetime. I will say that I never want to be a Christian again because it caused such misery and sadness in my life.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
In most ways, except for believing that there is evidence for God and.God exists.
You said that you think more like an atheist than a believer. As far as I know that is the only way of thinking that is not shared between some member of either group.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Happiness comes and goes. Fulfillment that brings joy is a more meaningful pursuit.

Pleasure is short lived.
I agree and that is why people who seek pleasure have to keep seeking it, over and over again. Sex, drugs, and alcohol come to mind.
I think it rather impossible to determine who has more joy, religious, or non religious. Anybody can be happy.
I agree. What makes people happy is markedly different for different people so people find joy and happiness in different places. Who would think I find joy in the rain in June, as most people are hoping for a sunny day!
I truly wonder how many people actually experience true love, in terms of understanding it, and in platonic relationships. My guess is that true love is something many, many people have never experienced it so they live not ever knowing it. True love seems to be something a lot of people throw under the bus. Chalk it down to chemical reactions in the form of emotions.

True Love is the only way to experience joy. It's the only reason I hunt to find if God exists, though I really can't reconcile nature with a God.
What is true love? I do not think it is romantic love or sex, I think it is caring and sacrifice. If God cares about humans then that is true love, but the jury is out for me on that since I do not see any evidence of it, only scriptures.

I think you hunt for a God of Love because you experienced True Love from your mother. i did not experience that so I feel very pessimistic about it.

As you know, I find it difficult to reconcile a Loving God with suffering of humans and in nature.
Joy isn't happiness. Joy is enduring fulfillment, peace, and often has to endure hardships, and all kinds of things, including conflicts of all the worst kinds of things.
I have had that kind of joy and still do experience it. There is the satisfaction of having endured a hardship. Sometimes I have had that joy in reading Writings of Baha'u'llah or watching Baha'i videos with inspiring pictures and music.
Perhaps true love faithful people are more like soldiers on the front lines of a war, moreso than people who are fully taken care of by God. I don't see where religion comes into play on the matter.
God is not on the front lines. I am a soldier on the front lines now and religion has nothing to do with it.
I know my mother had joy at the fact that her loved ones sacrificed to make sure she was taken care of because she always cared for her loved ones as well. Religion never entered into it.
The same holds true for my mother. Although she was never able to show love towards us she did save all she had and left it for us.
Maybe God don't want to be known. Life is a battle for those on Earth, not in heaven. On second thought, nahhh, I'm still atheist.
I believe that God wants to be known, but only through His Messengers.
Yes, the battle is on Earth, not in heaven.
There's something out there though, I just call it the highest power.
What's in a name? God is the same by whatever name He is called. :)
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
I think atheists can and do have happy lives, and many of them are happier than believers.
I think this one is a "it depends" for certain. Sure you can have unhappy religious people, as we often hear stories of either former believers or current ones that have had very bad experiences within their religions, which an atheist obviously wouldn't experience.

But on the other side I also think a lot of people find comfort, unity and community within religion. Whether that is simply through meeting with other likeminded people or maybe doing charity work or what other things one can do. Much in the same way as you would join a sport team like football or soccer and you share your passion or meet others that enjoy it, or whatever thing one might enjoy doing where others with similar interests are there.

In the end, atheists can have equally bad life experiences as those with a religion have, simply not motivated by religion. And they can be just as happy as religious people can. I do however think that atheists benefit is that we don't struggle as much with the fear of some of the stuff that some religious preach or the guilt or rules that these can apply. Which I think gives us a greater feeling of freedom and one could argue that freedom is important in regards to happiness.

But again it depends, what religion, country etc. we are talking about :)
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
I agree and that is why people who seek pleasure have to keep seeking it, over and over again. Sex, drugs, and alcohol come to mind.

I agree. What makes people happy is markedly different for different people so people find joy and happiness in different places. Who would think I find joy in the rain in June, as most people are hoping for a sunny day!

What is true love? I do not think it is romantic love or sex, I think it is caring and sacrifice. If God cares about humans then that is true love, but the jury is out for me on that since I do not see any evidence of it, only scriptures.

I think you hunt for a God of Love because you experienced True Love from your mother. i did not experience that so I feel very pessimistic about it.

As you know, I find it difficult to reconcile a Loving God with suffering of humans and in nature.

I have had that kind of joy and still do experience it. There is the satisfaction of having endured a hardship. Sometimes I have had that joy in reading Writings of Baha'u'llah or watching Baha'i videos with inspiring pictures and music.

God is not on the front lines. I am a soldier on the front lines now and religion has nothing to do with it.

The same holds true for my mother. Although she was never able to show love towards us she did save all she had and left it for us.

I believe that God wants to be known, but only through His Messengers.
Yes, the battle is on Earth, not in heaven.

What's in a name? God is the same by whatever name He is called. :)


I've had joy while in complete misery otherwise. Sometimes I have joy and never feel any feelings of it.

God is too powerful to be. Highest power is true love. I think you can even find true love being completely alone and just being in touch with your own heart in full realization of what it means.

Yes, true love cares and sacrifices if needs be.

I truly never felt love from a God.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
There's no doubt in my mind that I'm much better off mentally and emotionally since I renounced my Christian faith and began to deprogram myself from all the Christian indoctrination I was exposed to throughout my lifetime. I will say that I never want to be a Christian again because it caused such misery and sadness in my life.
I can only imagine who that must have been like, since I was not raised as a Christian and never was a Christian. There is a lot of indoctrination in Christianity, which is a religion of man-made doctrines, not the religion of Jesus. I am glad you finally got out from under it.

I think it is truly sad what Christianity has become, the religion of Paul, not Jesus. There is no fixing that now, but I think it is good to at least recognize it and not blame it on Jesus, who had nothing to do with what Christianity became.

How Paul changed the course of Christianity
 
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