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Jesus only Started one Church

firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
KW said:
So he could understand us enough to judge us, possibly.

So he could understand weakness, suffering, and death.

How could an omnipotent being understand these things?
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Are you saying God is so weak and distant that he cant understand any of this? You call God omnipotent and ask "How could he". Thats an oxymoron.

You should instead think that your claimed "Omnipotent" being is capable of understanding anything as he is. He does not have to become a human, suffer and be killed. He is after all as you claim omnipotent.

Unbelievable.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
KW said:
So he could understand us enough to judge us, possibly.

So he could understand weakness, suffering, and death.

How could an omnipotent being understand these things?
Click to expand...
God did not have to BECOME a man in order to judge and understand us... Jesus understood us.

As a Manifestation of God, Jesus had a twofold nature, one nature human, the other nature divine. Because of His divine nature, Jesus could understand God, and because of His human nature Jesus could understand humans; so with an understanding of both God and humans, Jesus was able to bridge the gap between God and humans.

“Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself. To this testifieth the tradition: “Manifold and mysterious is My relationship with God. I am He, Himself, and He is I, Myself, except that I am that I am, and He is that He is.” …. The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: “I am but a man like you.” “Say, praise be to my Lord! Am I more than a man, an apostle?” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 66-67
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
Peter was one of the 12 Apostles of Jesus. Roman Catholic tradition holds that Jesus established St. Peter as the first pope (Matthew 16:18). Jesus also gave him “the keys of the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 16:19), which is why he is often depicted at the gates of heaven in art and popular culture.
Notable Works: letters of Peter
Died: c.64 Rome Italy

Saint Peter the Apostle | History, Facts, & Feast Day | Britannica
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Peoples traditions can hold a lot of things. Strange you dont hold the same faith in "tradition" with Muslims but hold on to the tradition of the Catholic Church so vehemently.

Nevertheless, thanks for clarifying.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
firedragon said:
Peoples traditions can hold a lot of things. Strange you dont hold the same faith in "tradition" with Muslims but hold on to the tradition of the Catholic Church so vehemently.

Nevertheless, thanks for clarifying.
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No, I don't hold onto the tradition of the Catholic Church vehemently at all...
Peter getting the 'keys to the Kingdom' is something my husband always tells me about...
My husband has been a Baha'i for over 55 years, but before that he wanted to be a Catholic.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
firedragon said:
Thats exactly what you did.

It seems like you hold an emotional position so I will not try to break that.

Peace,
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No, I just posted the first thing I found on a Google search.
I am not emotional about it.

I don't know jack about the history of Christianity and I don't pretend to.
Just call me clueless. Religion has never been my cup of tea.
 
KW

KW

Well-Known Member
exchemist said:
Says who, though? Perhaps there are many that do this. Why does it have to be only one strand? After all, all the various branches have developed from the same original root.

Furthermore it is obvious that all the branches of Christianity have weaknesses of one sort or another, so it seems on the face of it crazy to claim that any one of them is flawless. The flaws of the Catholic church are perhaps especially glaring, in view of its prominence and the length of time it has been around. So any claim that it alone is the result of the Holy Spirit leading its members into all truth is going to evoke a hollow laugh.

By the way, the lineage of the Orthodox church gives it just a strong a claim to be original as the Catholic church. Its holy orders are recognised by the Catholic church and you and I as Catholics can receive communion in an Orthodox church - though an Orthodox priest won't generally agree that we can.
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The orthodox church split from the catholic church. They do have a unique claim, but they broke the bond with the successor of Peter. We can read that this bond was once in place with the patriarchs. This severance negates their claim.


The Catholic Church is unique.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
KW said:
Which Church fits these descriptions? Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”...............”
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I think it is good to keep in mind how Peter viewed things -> 1 Peter 2:4-8
Peter did Not view himself as the rock, rather, Jesus was the long-foretold foundation cornerstone.
Jesus the 'cornerstone' chosen by God Himself.
Also, we find Paul in agreement with Peter as found at 1 Corinthians 3:11& 1 Corinthians 10:4 with Paul also referring to Jesus as the foundation or Jesus being the 'spiritual rock'.
The Greek word for Peter is pe'tros. Simply a piece of the rock or a mass of rock with pe'tros also appearing at:
- Matthew 7:24-25; Matthew 27:60; Luke 6:48; Luke 8:6; Romans 9:33 besides 1 Peter 4:8.
So, the Bible's answer as to which 'church' (Christian congregation) fits the description teaches that Jesus is the Rock.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
Peter was one of the 12 Apostles of Jesus. Roman Catholic tradition holds that Jesus established St. Peter as the first pope (Matthew 16:18). Jesus also gave him “the keys of the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 16:19),...............
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And Peter used those three (3) keys:
1st - to unlock the way for the Jews to become Christians
2nd - to unlock the way for the Samaritans
3rd - to unlock the way for the people of the Gentile nations
 
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U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Trailblazer said:
......Peter getting the 'keys to the Kingdom' is something my husband always tells me about.......
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Those 'spiritual keys' I find stood for authority or responsibility.
The keys entrusted to Peter he used those keys to open up The Way:
First, for the Jews to accept Christianity ( Acts of the Apostles 2:22-41 )
Second, for the Samaritans ( Acts of the Apostles 8:14-17 )
Third, for the people of the Gentile nations ( Acts of the Apostles 10:34-38 )
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
Matthew
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the middle of them.”

1st John
See how great a love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God! For this cause the world doesn’t know us, because it didn’t know him.
 
KW

KW

Well-Known Member
firedragon said:
Are you saying God is so weak and distant that he cant understand any of this? You call God omnipotent and ask "How could he". Thats an oxymoron.

You should instead think that your claimed "Omnipotent" being is capable of understanding anything as he is. He does not have to become a human, suffer and be killed. He is after all as you claim omnipotent.

Unbelievable.
Click to expand...


Why do you think Jesus became human?
 
KW

KW

Well-Known Member
74x12 said:
Matthew
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the middle of them.”

1st John
See how great a love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God! For this cause the world doesn’t know us, because it didn’t know him.
Click to expand...

That doesn’t tell you which books belong in the NT. Jesus gave us a church to guide us to heaven.
 
KW

KW

Well-Known Member
URAVIP2ME said:
I think it is good to keep in mind how Peter viewed things -> 1 Peter 2:4-8
Peter did Not view himself as the rock, rather, Jesus was the long-foretold foundation cornerstone.
Jesus the 'cornerstone' chosen by God Himself.
Also, we find Paul in agreement with Peter as found at 1 Corinthians 3:11& 1 Corinthians 10:4 with Paul also referring to Jesus as the foundation or Jesus being the 'spiritual rock'.
The Greek word for Peter is pe'tros. Simply a piece of the rock or a mass of rock with pe'tros also appearing at:
- Matthew 7:24-25; Matthew 27:60; Luke 6:48; Luke 8:6; Romans 9:33 besides 1 Peter 4:8.
So, the Bible's answer as to which 'church' (Christian congregation) fits the description teaches that Jesus is the Rock.
Click to expand...


Why did Jesus changes Simons name to Rock and give him the keys to the kingdom?
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
KW said:
Why did Jesus change Simons name to Rock and give him the keys to the kingdom?
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Jesus would Not be on Earth at Pentecost.
Thus, Peter would take the lead to un-lock the way for the Jews, Samaritans and Gentile people to become Christians.
I find rock has No capital letter "R" at Matthew 16:18 as one would find if Rock was a person's name.
At John 1:42 I find it says: you are Simon... you will be called ' Ce'phas ( Ce'phas which when translated is "Peter")
1 Corinthians 3:11 says No other foundation but Jesus
1 Corinthians 10:4 Jesus ( Not Peter) is the ' spiritual rock '
Ephesians 2:20 Jesus is the ' corner stone '
1 Peter 2:6-8 Jesus is the foundation corner stone. (Psalms 118:22 )
 
KW

KW

Well-Known Member
URAVIP2ME said:
Jesus would Not be on Earth at Pentecost.
Thus, Peter would take the lead to un-lock the way for the Jews, Samaritans and Gentile people to become Christians.
I find rock has No capital letter "R" at Matthew 16:18 as one would find if Rock was a person's name.
At John 1:42 I find it says: you are Simon... you will be called ' Ce'phas ( Ce'phas which when translated is "Peter")
1 Corinthians 3:11 says No other foundation but Jesus
1 Corinthians 10:4 Jesus ( Not Peter) is the ' spiritual rock '
Ephesians 2:20 Jesus is the ' corner stone '
1 Peter 2:6-8 Jesus is the foundation corner stone. (Psalms 118:22 )
Click to expand...

Jesus made Simon the leader of the Church. He told us to listen to the Church. Why would you follow some post enlightenment sect that started 1500 years later?
 
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