Ask About Islam

[muhammad_isa]

No. If there is a god who created people, he does not own them.

How so?
Our physical bodies are disposable, quite clearly, but the soul belongs to G-d.
It is immortal, as is G-d.

The feeling of independence that we get while here on earth, is not one that will endure. This life is merely a test for us.
The life hereafter is more permanent, and one well worth keeping in mind while we live here on earth.

 

[ppp]

You asked about my criteria, I said do what is right. I don't know how I didn't answer the question

Right is a synonym of moral. Not a criteria for determining what is moral.

Creating conversation. Aren't you a social person!

We are not close enough to be trivially social.

Yes, he does

No, he doesn't.

He can do whatever he wants with you
He can even come up with a certificate of ownership

So can a slaveowner. Nether is a moral justification rape or torture or slavery.

If you don't like that, it is irrelevant

That is just might makes right. Also known as a failed attempt to justify rape or torture or slavery.

How do you determine ownership

I need more information. Ownership of what?

 

[ppp]

How so?
Our physical bodies are disposable, quite clearly, but the soul belongs to G-d.
It is immortal, as is G-d.

None of that conveys ownership.

 

[RAYYAN]

Right is a synonym of moral. Not a criteria for determining what is moral.

What I think is right thing to do. I don't have more answer than that

We are not close enough to be trivially social.

You broke my heart

No, he doesn't.

Yes, he does
If there is God who is all-powerful, all-knowing, al.......etc.
He can turn you into anything he wants and he can do whatever he wants with you

So can a slaveowner. Nether is a moral justification rape or torture or slavery.

No, the slave can just run away when situation is right
If there is God who created you, and created the whole universe, you can't run, you can't hide

That is just might makes right. Also known as a failed attempt to justify rape or torture or slavery.

That is your opinion about me which equals zero to me

I need more information. Ownership of what?

How do you determine you own anything at all?

 

[Sheldon]

Our physical bodies are disposable, quite clearly,

Not remotely clear, I don't have a body, I am a body.

but the soul belongs to G-d.
It is immortal, as is G-d.

I don't believe any of that, not least because theists try to assert it, as you have done here, as if it is a fact, but fail to demonstrate any objective evidence for it.

The feeling of independence that we get while here on earth, is not one that will endure.

Another unevidenced desertion, and I have no idea what feeling of independence means? I only experience reality, and try to make sense of it.

This life is merely a test for us.

Unevidenced assertion number 5 or is it 6, and in a single post.

The life hereafter is more permanent,

Number 7 implied, and number 8.

and one well worth keeping in mind while we live here on earth.

I doubt it, since I tend to disbelieve unevidenced assertions, especially when they are rifled at me in tandem in a single post.

 

[ppp]

What I think is right thing to do. I don't have more answer than that

if you cant. You can't.

You broke my heart

Yes, he does
If there is God who is all-powerful, all-knowing, al.......etc.
He can turn you into anything he wants and he can do whatever he wants with you

No, the slave can just run away when situation is right
If there is God who created you, and created the whole universe, you can't run, you can't hide

That is your opinion about me which equals zero to me

That is not my opinion about you. I don't know you well enough to have an opinion about you. I am simply assessing what you said. And everything that you are saying is about your god's power to do anything he wants. That is "might". And you are using that to say that because of that power he has the "right" to do it, and that he has the "right" of ownership. That is quite literally saying that "might" makes "right".

How do you determine you own anything at all?

By the convention of the society in which I live.

 

[KWED]

No, that is not what I am saying
What I am saying is, I belong to this religion because I don't find any immorality in it. Once I found one, I will be the first to leave it.

So you consider slavery, using female captives for sex and torture to be morally acceptable.
Case proven m'lud.

Let's talk about suffering for all eternity, If that is true, and there is God who does that, God who created us, who am I to say anything or what he does with his creation! Even if I wanted to, can I do something! in that case, we don't really have a say.

So the "Nuremberg Defence"? You accept that there may be immorality in there, but you were only obeying orders.

BTW - I don't believe in the eternity thing and I have a good reason for it

The Quran clearly states, in several passages, that disbelievers will be tortured for eternity.
What "good reason" do you have to reject Allah's word?

 

[KWED]

LOL - that is funny

Oh dear. This is going to be one of those responses where you just say "NO!" to all of my points but fail to provide any supporting argument or evidence.

Very bad example dude
You know you are wrong

Yep, thought so.

I was not anticipating that you are going to twist my words
Shame on you

I said "Islam does tell you to harm other people under certain circumstances".
You asked for examples, thus implying that you doubted my claim.

You also said "Belief in Islam cannot lead to harm"
However, you have since admitted that it can.

Yes, it is. Read more on Wikipedia.
Do you always lie to win the debate or you just don't know?

Oh dear. Why do you do this to yourself?
The punishment for treason is not death in the majority of countries.

Again with twisting my words

I am just clarifying and correcting your position.

There are different types of punishments depending on the crime including death (Capital punishment)
re-read the verse you quoted

How is that relevant?
I said "Islam prescribes the death penalty for opposing Islamic rule". Ibn Kathir's tafsir is explicit on that issue.

Show me where I claimed that and stop with the lies

You said... "if people commit adultery in the privacy of their homes, no one can punish them...
but, if they took it to the public ...the law must be applied"

This implies that the punishment is only for public acts, not private.
With all due respect, perhaps you need to pay more attention to what you are writing. Words have meanings. Statements have implications.

We have established that any constitution in the world tells people to harm others for certain crimes.

No we haven't because they don't. There are many countries where both capital and corporal punishment has been abolished.

Why go bananas on Islam!

Because this thread is about Islam. And Muslims claim that Islam is perfect and the ultimate social system. And you claimed that Islam doesn't cause harm to people.

Eternity! that is debatable

Not of you believe that the Quran is infallible and immutable.

Sure
I will let Dr. Eric Berg tell you all about it
Are you educated yet?

Oh dear.
1. I provided you with multiple healthcare sources saying that dry fasting is not healthy.
2. You provide a video of a chiropractor (a glorified masseur) and weight loss consultant saying that it may lead to increased weight loss but he wouldn't do it for more than a day.

What was that you were saying about "education"?

That is what you think LOL
but again, that is your opinion and it doesn't hurt me because simply in order for me to be hurt, I have to value your opinion in the first place

Why do you think I want to hurt you? I am merely trying to educate and inform. Pretty much everything I post is evidential, quoting scripture, or presenting the opinions of Islamic scholars.
Of course, you can ignore all that in favour of your own opinions if you want. After all, sometimes the truth hurts.

 

[joelr]

I hear this a lot, but in reality, it doesn't make sense because.....
If I believe that there is any kind of immorality in my religion, I won't belong to it in the first place. So, it makes perfect sense to believe the way I believe

fight against disbelievers? constant commentary on Christians and Jews being wrong, cursed and every other line is about an awful doom for non-believers? Victory over non-believers?

9:123 O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush.

O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers.

Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

And the Jews say the Christians follow nothing (true), and the Christians say the Jews follow nothing (true); yet both are readers of the Scripture.


And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!

ave not the strength to bear! Pardon us, absolve us and have mercy on us, Thou, our Protector, and give us victory over the disbelieving folk.

 

[KWED]

Our physical bodies are disposable, quite clearly, but the soul belongs to G-d.
It is immortal, as is G-d.

Of course, this is just wishful thinking and dogmatic belief. There is absolutely no evidence for any of it. Moreover, there is evidence that out is wrong. We know that our consciousness (what you call "the soul") is dependent on the physical brain because we can change our consciousness by changing the physical brain - sometimes irreversibly.

If it is as you claim, then the "soul" that goes on to the afterlife would be the one existing at death. So, if you developed dementia, or suffered brain injury or schizophrenia for example, that is how you would be in heaven.
Now, if you claim that god will change your "soul" to some idealised version after death, then it is not "you".

The feeling of independence that we get while here on earth, is not one that will endure.

Don't follow you.

This life is merely a test for us.

How can it be a test? A "test" is a means of finding out information about something or someone that is not known. God already knows exactly how we will respond to every event - not least because he degrees that outcome himself.

The life hereafter is more permanent, and one well worth keeping in mind while we live here on earth.

That is merely your belief based on your subscription to a particular religious ideology. It has no basis in fact. It is no more rational or true than any other belief from any other religion.

Can you even imagine what existing for eternity would be like? No, you can't. However, what we do know for certain is that even after you have done everything that it is possible to do, and done them all a billion times, you would still have an eternity left to fill. Everyone in heaven would have gone quite mad eventually.

 

[KWED]

What I think is right thing to do. I don't have more answer than that

You have already admitted that what you think is "right" is determined by what your religion says is "right". You are not making any personal, valued judgements. You are simply obeying orders. And some of the orders you have been given are clearly immoral in the context of the world you live in.

He can turn you into anything he wants and he can do whatever he wants with you

What happened to free will?

No, the slave can just run away when situation is right
If there is God who created you, and created the whole universe, you can't run, you can't hide

So being a human in a world under Allah is worse than being a slave on a 19th century plantation.
Nice!

 

[firedragon]

fight against disbelievers? constant commentary on Christians and Jews being wrong, cursed and every other line is about an awful doom for non-believers? Victory over non-believers?

9:123 O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush.

Read the beginning of that same chapter, and understand the context. After you have done that, read the Qur'an fully, and understand its context.

But at least, as a beginning, prior to making such facade claims, read the beginning of the chapter, and then read the chapter fully. Its most basic step any logical, intelligent, genuine person should do.

 

[firedragon]

The infallibility of one's belief system is the most dangerous and toxic aspect of religious beliefs.

Like Atheism?
And why?

 

[ppp]

Like Atheism?

What atheist belief am I asserting that is infallible, @firedragon? Don't hem and haw. Be specific. Be concise.

 

[firedragon]

What atheist belief am I asserting that is infallible, @firedragon? Don't hem and haw. Be specific. Be concise.

I dont know. I am only following your assertion. So I am asking "why".

 

[KWED]

Like Atheism?

Jeez, it really is like a foreign language to some people.

Atheism is a belief system in the same way that not playing football is a sport.

Hope this helped.

 

[KWED]

Read the beginning of that same chapter, and understand the context.

You mean where god tells Muhammad that he can break his peace treaties with the pagans (with a few exceptions), that the pagans are an ignorant people, that Muhammad should not make peace with them if they do not accept Islam, and that he should pursue, ambush, besiege and slay any pagans who refuse to submit to Allah.

Is that the bit you meant?

 

[KWED]

I dont know.

Finally, an honest reply!

 

[ppp]

I dont know. I am only following your assertion. .

You're not.

So I am asking "why".

Well, then next time try opening with a little less innuendo and a lot more probity and you might get an answer.

 

[firedragon]

The infallibility of one's belief system is the most dangerous and toxic aspect of religious beliefs. Or any belief. Including, Islam.

Alright, let me ask the question.

1. Why do you say "The infallibility of one's belief system is the most dangerous and toxic aspect of religious beliefs. Or any belief. Including, Islam"?

2. Do you believe atheism falls into the same trap or does it not?