A Single Human Family -- Will We Ever Get There?

[Heyo]

I just saw @Revoltingest's thread on China backing Russia (although slightly covertly). Rather than answering it, I thought I would take this opportunity to ask a question of my own -- one that, as a Humanist, has been at the forefront of my thought for decades.

And that question is this: "Can we humans ever finally discover that, isolated as we are on a tiny world in a vast cosmos, are one family, and that our continued survival is becoming more and more dependent on whether we can learn to live together, rather than continually try to win some special place over the rest of humanity?"

Or are we doomed to continue trying to outdo each other until, finally and ultimately, none of us is left, and the cockroaches get their turn at world domination?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

It is possible I agree with your first point, but I would really like you to provide more detail on why you think it is not desirable. Do you think that fighting with each other is valuable for our species in some way?

Sure. Basically what I said, conflict is the price we pay for diverse worldviews, cultures, viewpoints, beliefs etc.

I think the benefit of being able to be varied and different, with rich variety of culture and outlooks, outweighs the benefit we would get to get along but at the cost of everyone thinking and feeling the same way.

I can't think of a worse hell than where there's just one (or zero) religions, philosophies, creeds, abilities, stories, etc etc.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And do you have any thoughts as to how that will come about? Have you ever listened to the Youtube video by Carl Sagan called "Pale Blue Dot?"

Yes I have. I see we will get there as humanity sickens of war and makes a great effort towards peace.

We will realise we are one human race and men are only fighting over their graves.

Regards Tony

 

[Truthseeker]

I just saw @Revoltingest's thread on China backing Russia (although slightly covertly). Rather than answering it, I thought I would take this opportunity to ask a question of my own -- one that, as a Humanist, has been at the forefront of my thought for decades.

And that question is this: "Can we humans ever finally discover that, isolated as we are on a tiny world in a vast cosmos, are one family, and that our continued survival is becoming more and more dependent on whether we can learn to live together, rather than continually try to win some special place over the rest of humanity?"

Or are we doomed to continue trying to outdo each other until, finally and ultimately, none of us is left, and the cockroaches get their turn at world domination?

Yes, we will be one human family, though before that happens we will probably devastate each other.

 

[Truthseeker]

History paints a picture of being doomed to eternal war.

It does look that way. However, war is so destructive today that we must stop doing that, or no one will survive.

 

[Truthseeker]

Do you think it best to tell others how they should live, so that you will accept them and get along, or would you accept how they wish to live, and hope they do the same for you?

Absolutely.

 

[Truthseeker]

We evolved to survive and breed in tribes, and as history, and not least the bible, show, we got very good at thinking tribally, territorially and militarily.

Quite true. That is our biological nature. Where I differ with atheists is that we have a spiritual nature also, we just need to trained to bring that out.

 

[Truthseeker]

I don't believe global homogeny is possible or desirable. Conflict is a natural drawback of having a myriad unique perspectives and beliefs.

I don't believe that global homogeny is possible either. However how about "unity in diversity"? How about we accept each other for who we are?

 

[sun rise]

Can we humans ever finally discover that, isolated as we are on a tiny world in a vast cosmos, are one family,

History paints a picture of being doomed to eternal war.

While I understand people being pessimistic given the social sewage assailing our "nostrils", I'm a longer term optimist. From some reckoning in India, we are just the end of a 432,000 year dark age (Kali yuga) and just barely starting to enter a golden age (Satyuga).

All the major revealed religions have an expectation of this happening although each sees the structure in terms of their own religion.

Like all births, there is pain. But I see that where war used to be celebrated, now it's reviled. Where there used to be acceptance of discrimination, I'm better than you, now it's more and more opposed.

If I'm still in the body in 10 or 20 years, I expect things to be a lot better than today.

 

[sun rise]

However how about "unity in diversity"?

Yes, I see it that way as well.

 

[Truthseeker]

I think it is pointless to try to tell others how they should live, but I am still going to do what I think is right.

I would not accept how dictators, pedophiles, and serial killers wish to live, for instance; I think the right thing to do is stop those people from living how they wish to live.

Yes, there are limits to what we should accept, and should stop them from doing. Thanks for that insight I missed in my previous comment.

 

[Truthseeker]

I think that humans can do that, but realistically, they probably won't.

The world may still be unified, and the human race may finally realize that they are all citizens of the same planet.

But would they all do it of their own free will?

Or would it be done through conquest - by some world conqueror or empire? That seems pretty nasty, although in the end, if everyone is assimilated, then the world would be unified and humanity would be as one.

That's the usual picture I get from many people. I believe after we devastate each other for a while, who knows how long, we come together of our own free will.

 

[Truthseeker]

Are we not intelligent enough to outwit our own history?

Intelligence is part of it.

 

[Truthseeker]

Intelligence is defeated by 2 things....
- Emotions
- The size of the group

We also need ethics, morality, and spirituality. We also need to respect our differences.

 

[blü 2]

Quite true. That is our biological nature. Where I differ with atheists is that we have a spiritual nature also, we just need to trained to bring that out.

Ahm, the bible is full of wars fought in the name of God, populations exterminated in the name of God, humans offered as sacrifices to God. No doubt they would have felt naked going into battle without one or other God on their side.

That is, I don't trust religion to prevent war. Putin has the Russian Orthodox Church covering his back because they're buddies, for instance. He understands the ways in which religion can be a tool for doing just about anything. And who can forget Pacelli's silence when as Pius XII he said absolutely nothing about the Nazi death camps. He was more fussed politically with the atheism of the Russian communists than with the murder of millions of Jewish people, disabled people, Romani people, other-races people and so on by the Christian Nazis.

And of course we've just come through two or three decades of sorting out the First World's religious institutions reflexively protecting themselves instead of their flocks from repeated sexual abuse of, in particular, children and adolescents. No doubt human traits useful for survival but capable of being deadly when manipulated by the wrong hands are part of that, but such insights come from >science< , not religion.

Goodwill, decency, inclusion, are traits that humans find in themselves, whether they're believers or not. Gods are as unreliable when it comes to ways to find it as people are.

 

[Truthseeker]

Like all births, there is pain. But I see that where war used to be celebrated, now it's reviled. Where there used to be acceptance of discrimination, I'm better than you, now it's more and more opposed.

If I'm still in the body in 10 or 20 years, I expect things to be a lot better than today.

Good points in the first paragraph. However, I'm not sure about 10 or 20 years being better. It may be worse. Global warming is continuing. There could be 10s or 100s of millions of climate refugees. What kind of havoc will that cause? In the last 15 years there is less freedom every year according to Freedom House. Since I've joined followed Crisis Group a year ago January, every month the crisis's are deteriorating. Now come the Russia invasion of Ukraine.

 

[Truthseeker]

Ahm, the bible is full of wars fought in the name of God, populations exterminated in the name of God, humans offered as sacrifices to God. No doubt they would have felt naked going into battle without one or other God on their side.

That is, I don't trust religion to prevent war. Putin has the Russian Orthodox Church covering his back because they're buddies, for instance. He understands the ways in which religion can be a tool for doing just about anything. And who can forget Pacelli's silence when as Pius XII he said absolutely nothing about the Nazi death camps. He was more fussed politically with the atheism of the Russian communists than with the murder of millions of Jewish people, disabled people, Romani people, other-races people and so on by the Christian Nazis.

And of course we've just come through two or three decades of sorting out the First World's religious institutions reflexively protecting themselves instead of their flocks from repeated sexual abuse of, in particular, children and adolescents. No doubt human traits useful for survival but capable of being deadly when manipulated by the wrong hands are part of that, but such insights come from >science< , not religion.

Goodwill, decency, inclusion, are traits that humans find in themselves, whether they're believers or not. Gods are as unreliable when it comes to ways to find it as people are.

I respect your opinion but I disagree. How spiritual, ethical, and moral are those things you describe? Religious people can be fanatical, unethical and such, and atheists can be moral and ethical. No one has a monopoly on ethical behavior, but religion can be put to good use. 7% of wars I found out recently are started for religious reasons. Did Hitler kill for religious reasons? Did Stalin kill many people for religious reasons? What about Mao? What about Pol Pot? Yes, some people have perverted religion, often for power, and to wage war, but unethical and immorality are committed for all sorts of reasons.

Religion is like anything else. It can be used for good or evil. Science can be used for good or evil. God help us when science is used for perverted purposes. We need the ethics that religion can bring to guide science from perverting itself.

 

[sun rise]

I don't trust religion to prevent war.

Organized religion is the reflection of the social evolution of people. Thus in Russia, religion is a servant of the state. In the US, conservative religion is the tool of the right.

Not so long ago kings were God chosen and in some places were considered to be gods. Spiritual evolution will make current religious organizations relics of the past as god-kings are today.

 

[RestlessSoul]

History paints a picture of being doomed to eternal war.

Recorded history does. And by necessity, pre-history paints only the vaguest of pictures at all. But I attended the Stonehenge exhibition at the British Museum this week, and was struck by one feature of the human story it appeared to tell; that war, in Europe anyway, appears to have become endemic to human society about 3,500 years ago.

Human beings have been around a lot longer than that, but competition for resources presumably became more intense around that time. So if we could, perhaps through collective use of technology in the service of the many and not just the privileged few, find a way to make best use of the resources necessary to our collective survival, perhaps we can relearn how to live without war.

 

[Secret Chief]

Nah, we're ******. Hopefully.