We need to have an honest discussion about race in America

[Kfox]

Over the years, I’ve heard many people say that we need to have an honest discussion about race in America, but when the people who say this get the discussion, I’ve found 100% of the time (not most of the time, not even 90%, but 100% of the time) it turns out these are the very people who do not want an honest discussion about race in America. What they want is to dictate their subjective views about race to everyone else, even to the point of offending others, but they do not want others dictating their subjective views at them; even even to a point that they might find offensive.
They want to express their views to others and have others listen to them, without giving input or disagreement, and they attempt to conflate this with having an honest discussion about race. This is not a discussion, this is dictation; this is indoctrination. Now if this is what you want, fine; just just say so! Say you want to dictate your subjective views about race on to others and just have them listen; and quit calling it a desire for an honest discussion, because that it is not.
Your thoughts?

 

[Revoltingest]

Discussing race can be difficult.
Good luck with your thread.

 

[Rival]

There are different races of folks living in America.

They're all people.

The end.

 

[exchemist]

Over the years, I’ve heard many people say that we need to have an honest discussion about race in America, but when the people who say this get the discussion, I’ve found 100% of the time (not most of the time, not even 90%, but 100% of the time) it turns out these are the very people who do not want an honest discussion about race in America. What they want is to dictate their subjective views about race to everyone else, even to the point of offending others, but they do not want others dictating their subjective views at them; even even to a point that they might find offensive.
They want to express their views to others and have others listen to them, without giving input or disagreement, and they attempt to conflate this with having an honest discussion about race. This is not a discussion, this is dictation; this is indoctrination. Now if this is what you want, fine; just just say so! Say you want to dictate your subjective views about race on to others and just have them listen; and quit calling it a desire for an honest discussion, because that it is not.
Your thoughts?

Well the USA most certainly does to need to confront the issue. It is clear from the events of the last 5 years that race is still very much an issue bubbling away under the surface. Trump's presidency was a masterclass in how to exploit it.

Sidney Poiter's recent death has prompted me to order a copy of "In the Heat of the Night". I think it's time to watch that movie again.

 

[Kfox]

Discussing race can be difficult.
Good luck with your thread.

Thank-you. But sometimes difficult discussions turn out to be the best, or even the most important.

 

[The Hammer]

Over the years, I’ve heard many people say that we need to have an honest discussion about race in America, but when the people who say this get the discussion, I’ve found 100% of the time (not most of the time, not even 90%, but 100% of the time) it turns out these are the very people who do not want an honest discussion about race in America. What they want is to dictate their subjective views about race to everyone else, even to the point of offending others, but they do not want others dictating their subjective views at them; even even to a point that they might find offensive.
They want to express their views to others and have others listen to them, without giving input or disagreement, and they attempt to conflate this with having an honest discussion about race. This is not a discussion, this is dictation; this is indoctrination. Now if this is what you want, fine; just just say so! Say you want to dictate your subjective views about race on to others and just have them listen; and quit calling it a desire for an honest discussion, because that it is not.
Your thoughts?

What is race?

What is a 100% honest discussion about race look like to you?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Over the years, I’ve heard many people say that we need to have an honest discussion about race in America, but when the people who say this get the discussion, I’ve found 100% of the time (not most of the time, not even 90%, but 100% of the time) it turns out these are the very people who do not want an honest discussion about race in America. What they want is to dictate their subjective views about race to everyone else, even to the point of offending others, but they do not want others dictating their subjective views at them; even even to a point that they might find offensive.
They want to express their views to others and have others listen to them, without giving input or disagreement, and they attempt to conflate this with having an honest discussion about race. This is not a discussion, this is dictation; this is indoctrination. Now if this is what you want, fine; just just say so! Say you want to dictate your subjective views about race on to others and just have them listen; and quit calling it a desire for an honest discussion, because that it is not.
Your thoughts?

I am not American, I do not see race, I see human beings.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Over the years, I’ve heard many people say that we need to have an honest discussion about race in America, but when the people who say this get the discussion, I’ve found 100% of the time (not most of the time, not even 90%, but 100% of the time) it turns out these are the very people who do not want an honest discussion about race in America. What they want is to dictate their subjective views about race to everyone else, even to the point of offending others, but they do not want others dictating their subjective views at them; even even to a point that they might find offensive.
They want to express their views to others and have others listen to them, without giving input or disagreement, and they attempt to conflate this with having an honest discussion about race. This is not a discussion, this is dictation; this is indoctrination. Now if this is what you want, fine; just just say so! Say you want to dictate your subjective views about race on to others and just have them listen; and quit calling it a desire for an honest discussion, because that it is not.
Your thoughts?

I like the late Dr Kings statement that it's the content of one's character, and not the color of their skin.

I find race arguments in the modern day to be rather irrelevant and lame considering that most blacks, at least in my area, are doing pretty well for themselves overall.

I'm not saying there are no instances of racism here and there, but I certainly don't believe it's as rampant and pervasive as people try to make it out to be.

 

[mangalavara]

Your thoughts?

I think a presentation on the history of 'race' might be beneficial. Basically, show Americans that long until a few hundred years ago in parts of Europe, human beings everywhere did not have this concept of racial identity. Show Americans that this antiquated and shallow concept was made up by European colonialists. Show them that today's textbooks explain that the concept of race is a social construct and lacks scientific support.

The Romans did not crucify Jesus of Nazareth because of his skin color, and they made many peoples Romans regardless of color. The Ottomans went into Southeastern Europe, took lots of boys for themselves, converted them to Islam, and made them into soldiers for the empire. The boys being Slavs rather than Turks did not matter to the Ottomans. Take a look at the Hebrew Bible. The Israelites did not look down upon nearby nations for genetic differences. Many people in the past left one land and culture to join another. Identity for the ancients was a matter of language, culture, and religion. Later in history, this idea of there being Mongoloids, Caucasoids, and Negroid humans, all with different innate characteristics, was an innovative and major change in human outlook dreamed up by colonialists. The racialists' ideas of races were never even static. One racialist might include Arabs and Mizrahi/Sefardi/Ashkenazi Jews in the Caucasoid category whereas another racialist might exclude them. What about human beings who have a black parent and a white parent? There are also people descended from a parent who is white and black and another who is brown. What race are those people? These examples reveal the superficiality of the concept.

Seriously, Americans should drop this European colonialist concept and move forward already.

 

[Kooky]

@Kfox
What is it you wanted to discuss, specifically?

 

[Kooky]

Seriously, Americans should drop this European colonialist concept and move forward already.

The problem with this demand is that this very colonialist concept still shapes a lot of structures of inequality that people clearly can't let go. You just need some of our fellow RFers talk about "ghetto thugs" or "antifa BLM riots" to get an idea how strong these notions still are even among relatively smart cookies like the inhabitants of this forum.

If we want people to "drop it" then we also need to get them to "drop" all the discrimination, unfairness, and bad thoughts and emotions that linger on from this stupid idea.

 

[The Hammer]

I recommend reading "The Mismeasure of Man" by Stephen j Gould

 

[mangalavara]

If we want people to "drop it" then we also need to get them to "drop" all the discrimination, unfairness, and bad thoughts and emotions that linger on from this stupid idea.

Dropping those items is included with dropping the colonialists' social construct.

If we're going to discriminate based on anything, let it be religion. Speaking of which, if any of you are Sevener Shi'ites, you have lost the privilege of communicating with me.

 

[Kooky]

Dropping those items is included with dropping the colonialists' social construct.

One would think so, but I've encountered quite a few people bragging about being "colorblind" or having moved beyond race, yet still engaging in shocking amounts of such prejudice.

 

[Kfox]

What is race?

Specific differences of physical traits regarded as common among people of shared ancestry.

What is a 100% honest discussion about race look like to you?

A discussion where both sides get to discuss their views, and even if there is no agreement, there is at least respect for the other person’s views.

 

[Kfox]

I like the late Dr Kings statement that it's the content of one's character, and not the color of their skin.

I find race arguments in the modern day to be rather irrelevant and lame considering that most blacks, at least in my area, are doing pretty well for themselves overall.

I'm not saying there are no instances of racism here and there, but I certainly don't believe it's as rampant and pervasive as people try to make it out to be.

Yeah; I was more so talking about people who claim they want to have a discussion about race, but want to dictate instead.

 

[Revoltingest]

Thank-you. But sometimes difficult discussions turn out to be the best, or even the most important.

I suggest specifying something about race to
discuss. This is a debate forum, after all.

 

[Kooky]

Specific differences of physical traits regarded as common among people of shared ancestry.

What about mental traits?

 

[Kfox]

@Kfox
What is it you wanted to discuss, specifically?

I was actually hoping to run into the type of people described in the OP, and see if they disagree with me. Perhaps none of those type are here

 

[Kooky]

I was actually hoping to run into the type of people described in the OP, and see if they disagree with me. Perhaps none of those type are here

Then I suggest dropping your incoherent rant in response to such posts, instead out of the blue without even specifying in what context it is supposed to be understood.