We need to have an honest discussion about race in America

[Kfox]

I dunno about that.

Some people act weird and crazy and others act like a frenzied pychopathic barbarian on crack with a death wish.

.

But it's not like all people who act crazy are limited to a specific race, and those who act like barbarians on crack are of another.

 

[Kfox]

That's not actually true.

So which race is considered more likely to suffer from mental illness?

 

[The Hammer]

So what of the black person born in Ireland, or the white person born in Nigeria? Are black and white person in this case of the same race?

There is no such thing as "race" that actually amounts to anything useful as a classification, is my point.

It can mean what you want, as it's a social/societal construct that is flexible and ever shifting.

Edit: not everyone here is US born, so we tend to look at things from a worldly perspective. And not US centric (most times).

 

[The Hammer]

So which race is considered more likely to suffer from mental illness?

The human race

 

[MyM]

I think people are just messed up...ya got normality, you got craziness, you got ignorance, ya got arrogance and it's in every color and race.

 

[Kfox]

If you want an honest debate, then please start with a good faith engagement with my point.

I did. If it appears I've misunderstood your point, perhaps you can clarify what you mean.

 

[Kfox]

There is no such thing as "race" that actually amounts to anything useful as a classification, is my point.

It can mean what you want, as it's a social/societal construct that is flexible and ever shifting.

Edit: not everyone here is US born, so we tend to look at things from a worldly perspective. And not US centric (most times).

I agree; and my question was mostly about us in the US.

 

[Kooky]

I did. If it appears I've misunderstood your point, perhaps you can clarify what you mean.

Sorry. I wanted to edit that post out but the system ate my earlier edit.

It is common knowledge, at this point, that racism not only hinges on easily-discernable phenotypical traits like skin color or hair frizziness, but ascribes a whole host of mental traits and cultural habits onto people based on these physical traits or their "common ancestry" as you put it so nicely.

This ranges from relatively innocuous assumptions such as that people originating from East Asia are good at maths or hard working, to more problematic tropes such as the idea that ethnic Jews are intrinsically talented at handling money, to the rather insidious notion that some races are intrinsically more intelligent or more apt to work at intellectual tasks than others, culminating in pseudoscientific garbage like The Bell Curve, where it is asserted, without evidence, that the reason why Black kids often skew lower on IQ tests has to be genetic and intrinsic to their Blackness, without even bothering to control for other factors.

So when people commonly talk about race, they are often not simply talking about purely physical phenotypical traits; they are carring a host of assumptions and prejudices about mental and cultural traits or habits with them, consciously or not, because that's the connotation the term has acquired over the centuries of its common usage.

 

[Kfox]

The human race

the person I was discussing with was referring to race as those with shared ancestry. Again; which (shared ancestry)race is more likely to suffer from mental illness?

 

[The Hammer]

I agree; and my question was mostly about us in the US.

But the cultural divisions and structural inequalities within the US based on the concept of Race do exist, right?

 

[The Hammer]

the person I was discussing with was referring to race as those with shared ancestry. Again; which (shared ancestry)race is more likely to suffer from mental illness?

Human, we all share ancestry with single genetic ancestor.

 

[Kfox]

Sorry. I wanted to edit that post out but the system ate my earlier edit.

It is common knowledge, at this point, that racism not only hinges on easily-discernable phenotypical traits like skin color or hair frizziness, but ascribes a whole host of mental traits and cultural habits onto people based on these physical traits or their "common ancestry" as you put it so nicely.

This ranges from relatively innocuous assumptions such as that people originating from East Asia are good at maths or hard working, to more problematic tropes such as the idea that ethnic Jews are intrinsically talented at handling money, to the rather insidious notion that some races are intrinsically more intelligent or more apt to work at intellectual tasks than others, culminating in pseudoscientific garbage like The Bell Curve, where it is asserted, without evidence, that the reason why Black kids often skew lower on IQ tests has to be genetic and intrinsic to their Blackness, without even bothering to control for other factors.

So when people commonly talk about race, they are often not simply talking about purely physical phenotypical traits; they are carring a host of assumptions and prejudices about mental and cultural traits or habits with them, consciously or not, because that's the connotation the term has acquired over the centuries of its common usage.

Like I said, there are fringe groups with those views; (in the US we call them racists) but those people are the fringe not the normal. Most people in the US see race as strictly about physical traits.

 

[Kooky]

So which race is considered more likely to suffer from mental illness?

This is actually an interesting thing after all:

Misdiagnosis of schizophrenia: When treating Black/African American clients, clinicians tend to overemphasize the relevance of psychotic symptoms and overlook symptoms of major depression compared to when they are treating clients with other racial or ethnic backgrounds.[3] For this reason, Black men in particular are greatly over-diagnosed with schizophrenia—they are four times more likely to be diagnosed with schizophrenia than their white male counterparts.[4] Furthermore, Black people in general are significantly more likely to be diagnosed with schizophrenia alone when a mood disorder is also present than white people. Schizophrenia is a disorder that (by definition) must be diagnosed by exclusion, meaning that the symptoms of it can’t be explained by another psychiatric disorder (like a mood disorder). Therefore, the fact that Black people end up with schizophrenia diagnoses without a mood disorder diagnosis despite the clinical presence of a mood disorder means that these symptoms are being ignored, and explains in large part why the diagnosis rate of schizophrenia is so much higher in Black populations than white.[5]

BIPOC Youth: BIPOC youth with behavioral and mental health conditions are more likely to be directed to the juvenile justice system than to specialty care institutions compared to non-Latinx white youth. This is likely because BIPOC youth are much more likely to end up in the juvenile justice system as a result of higher rates of harsh disciplinary suspension and expulsion practices against BIPOC youth in schools compared to white youth.[6]

Racism and Mental Health

 

[Kfox]

But the cultural divisions and structural inequalities within the US based on the concept of Race do exist, right?

I don't agree. Cultural divisions are based on culture, structural inequalities is mostly based on culture and income IMO.

 

[We Never Know]

Over the years, I’ve heard many people say that we need to have an honest discussion about race in America, but when the people who say this get the discussion, I’ve found 100% of the time (not most of the time, not even 90%, but 100% of the time) it turns out these are the very people who do not want an honest discussion about race in America. What they want is to dictate their subjective views about race to everyone else, even to the point of offending others, but they do not want others dictating their subjective views at them; even even to a point that they might find offensive.
They want to express their views to others and have others listen to them, without giving input or disagreement, and they attempt to conflate this with having an honest discussion about race. This is not a discussion, this is dictation; this is indoctrination. Now if this is what you want, fine; just just say so! Say you want to dictate your subjective views about race on to others and just have them listen; and quit calling it a desire for an honest discussion, because that it is not.
Your thoughts?

Two scenario's.....

White cop shoots a white suspect
Black cop shoots a white suspect
White cop shoots a black suspect
Black cop shoots a black suspect
All had the same outcome but only one will make national news. Why?

Four white people attack a white person
Four black people attack a white person
Four white people attack a black person
Four black people attack a black person
All had the same crime committed against a person but only one will make national news. Why?

In my opinion race isn't a a huge problem. Its the focus the news puts on an incident involving different races and makes and keeps race a problem.

 

[The Hammer]

but those people are the fringe not the normal. Most people in the US see race as strictly about physical traits.

The bigger issue is the System, not the people. Open and outright racists are fringe, sure. But the whole governmental, societal and cultural institution has a basis in racism.

The original founders and tenants of American Anthropology, led directly to this, through what we call the creation of Social Darwinism. And permeates our entire System of being. This reliance on Social Darwinism was used to advocate slavery/African inequality and to disposess native Americans of their land. This led directly to Hitler adopting these ideas to promolgate eugenics and genocide amongst "races" he deemed "inferior", and he had "scientific" backing for it.

Social Darwinism is what gives us the ideas that the Poor don't deserve assistance, and that mentally or physically handicapped person's must be miserable and culled.

Edit: "Proponents of Social Darwinism believe(d) that it is/was morally wrong for the government and charity organizations to provide public education, public health, or a minimum wage because these efforts only contribute to the artificial preservation of the weak." - Baker, Lee (Ascension of Anthropology as Social Darwinism)

 

[Kfox]

This is actually an interesting thing after all:




Racism and Mental Health

Interesting points. I wonder how much of this have to do with culture, and does this apply to blacks who migrate from the Diaspora.

 

[Kfox]

Two scenario's.....

White cop shoots a white suspect
Black cop shoots a white suspect
White cop shoots a black suspect
Black cop shoots a black suspect
All had the same outcome but only one will make national news. Why?

Four white people attack a white person
Four black people attack a white person
Four white people attack a black person
Four black people attack a black person
All had the same crime committed against a person but only one will make national news. Why?

In my opinion race isn't a a huge problem. Its the focus the news puts on an incident involving different races and makes and keeps race a problem.

Yeah that is a good point. If you look at the deaths of Tony Tempa, Timothy Coffman, and George Floyd, there was no differences; all 3 men were on a lot of drugs, all 3 men were handcuffed, placed on the ground by the cops and had a knee on their necks until they died. When this happened to Tony Tempa and Timothy Coffman they were white so the national media ignored it and nobody noticed so the cops got off, but when it happened to George Floyd, the national media covered it and the entire world took notice and the cop was convicted.

 

[Kfox]

The bigger issue is the System, not the people. Open and outright racists are fringe, sure. But the whole governmental, societal and cultural institution has a basis in racism.
.

Which system are you talking about?

 

[The Hammer]

@Kfox Society