Once a christian, always a christian

[Saint Frankenstein]

[citation needed]

I guess you need a 101 course.

Effects of Getting Excommunicated in the Catholic Church

Honestly, if you're not Catholic and or no longer believe in it, the concept of excommunication isn't going to mean much to you. People love to throw the term around in these discussions, though. Hitler and I both fall under the category of "lapsed Catholic" in common parlance. Madonna, too.

 

[Heyo]

When did the pope say Hitler was a Catholic and a Christian?

They (Pius XI and XII) never denied he was a Catholic. And they took his tithes, effectively saying he was.

And more importantly, since we're apparently looking at what those with authority have to say on the matter, which serious historian has ever claimed that Hitler was motivated by Christian values?

That was never the question.

 

[RestlessSoul]

They (Pius XI and XII) never denied he was a Catholic. And they took his tithes, effectively saying he was.

That was never the question.

Took his tithes?

 

[Heyo]

I guess you need a 101 course.

Effects of Getting Excommunicated in the Catholic Church

Honestly, if you're not Catholic and or no longer believe in it, the concept of excommunication isn't going to mean much to you. People love to throw the term around in these discussions, though. Hitler and I both fall under the category of "lapsed Catholic" in common parlance. Madonna, too.

"How Does One Incur Automatic Excommunication?
Canon law lists several such actions that result in automatic excommunication. For instance, apostatizing from the Catholic Faith, publicly promoting heresy, or engaging in schism—that is, rejecting the proper authority of the Catholic Church (Canon 1364); throwing away the consecrated species of the Eucharist (the host or the wine after they have become the Body and Blood of Christ) or "retain[ing] them for sacrilegious purposes" (Canon 1367); physically assaulting the pope (Canon 1370); and undergoing an abortion (in the case of the mother) or paying for an abortion (Canon 1398). In addition, clergy can receive an automatic excommunication by, for instance, revealing sins that were confessed to him in the Sacrament of Confession (Canon 1388) or participating in the consecration of a bishop without the approval of the pope (Canon 1382)."

Genocide seems not to fall under automatic excommunication.

And it seems that even an excommunication doesn't automatically exclude one from being Christian or Catholic:
"What Excommunication Is Not
The point of excommunication is often misunderstood. Many people think that, when a person is excommunicated, he or she is "no longer a Catholic." But just as the Church can excommunicate someone only if he is a baptized Catholic, the excommunicated person remains a Catholic after his excommunication"

 

[ChristineM]

Take the atheist argument of since Hitler was raised a christian he stayed a christian. Does that hold any truth?

If that's true how many of you here are really atheists? I mean if you were raised a christian/in a religion, doesn't that mean you are still that?

According to the church of England and some of my christian family i am still a christian after 35 years of atheism. I am recorded somewhere in church archives as being christian, a record that i at one time tried to have expunged with no luck. In the end i decided that these people could think what they want, it doesn't make any difference.

As for Hitler he very often showed his christian leanings in such things as always haveing his troops blessed by a priests before battle, victimisation of atheists, insisting Christianity was a core subject in schools and by his own words. And of course he had Vatican approval.

 

[RestlessSoul]

According to the church of England and some of my christian family i am still a christian after 35 years of atheism. I am recorded somewhere in church archives as being christian, a record that i at one time tried to have expunged with no luck. In the end i decided that these people could think what they want, it doesn't make any difference.

As for Hitler he very often showed his christian leanings in such things as always haveing his troops blessed by a priests before battle, victimisation of atheists, insisting Christianity was a core subject in schools and by his own words. And of course he had Vatican approval.

Can you provide evidence for any of this?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Take the atheist argument of since Hitler was raised a christian he stayed a christian

Which atheist makes this argument?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I've just seen several here argue Hitler was a christian, therefore christianity is bad.

Nobody made that argument.

 

[firedragon]

As for Hitler he very often showed his christian leanings in such things as always haveing his troops blessed by a priests before battle, victimisation of atheists, insisting Christianity was a core subject in schools and by his own words. And of course he had Vatican approval.

While Stalin and his machine were atheists the same way hitler was a Christian. Unless of course you practice double standards.

 

[Augustus]

Can you provide evidence for any of this?

No, because it's all made up nonsense (excepting there was hostility to atheism for its association with Marxism)

For example insisting on troops being blessed before battle would be quite the challenge without anyone to administer such a blessing. Nazi views on military Chaplaincy:

III. THE "URIAH LAW": NAZI HOSTILITY TO MILITARY CHAPLAINS

As Leonhard's experience in the hospital ward suggests, chaplains in Hitler's military faced problems particular to Nazi Germany. Servants of both church and state, they nevertheless encountered considerable hostility from military, state, and party authorities. Hitler and his inner circle made no secret of their contempt for Christianity, a religion they considered nothing but diluted Judaism propagated in a conspiratorial effort to weaken the so-called Aryan race.4

Any form of Christianity, even the national religion of the chaplaincy, threatened Nazi claims to spiritual monopoly. Like the churches, the chaplains were to be allowed to survive until the war was over; Nazi leaders considered it too risky to attack Christian institutions when the full support of the homefront was needed to avoid the "stab-in- the-back" they believed had lost them the previous war.

Attempts to confine and ultimately destroy the chaplaincy many forms.42 Neither the Luftwaffe nor the SS had chaplains assigned to their units.43... A 1942 command announced that no new chaplains would be appointed; chaplains who died, left due to illness, or were take were not replaced...

A 1942 order even required chaplains to situate themselves in areas of heaviest action, where their morale-boosting effects—and presumably the risk to their lives—would be maximized. "In combat," the order stipulated, "the military chaplain will be found in the hottest part of the battle and at the main dressing station, unless—and this will be the exception—he has received a special assignment from divisional command." Chaplains called this the "Uriah Law," after the general in the Bible whom King David sent on a suicide mission so that David could have his wife Bathsheba.

Totalitarianism: German Military Chaplains in World War II and the Dilemmas of Legitimacy - Doris L. Bergen

 

[Guitar's Cry]

From what I have read in history Hitler tried to use Christianity to his favor to gain trust v and popularity but in reality he despised it.
I've just seen several here argue Hitler was a christian, therefore christianity is bad.

Doesn't this suggest "Christianity is bad" in a different way: that it is easily manipulated by people with political ambitions, possibly due to its Messianic message? Hitler, Constantine, Charlemagne, various popes...

Even today many Evangelicals still believe Trump is a political Messiah that will herald a new American Golden Age.

 

[ChristineM]

Can you provide evidence for any of this?

Of the churches refusal to remove me for their lists... No. It was verbal.

Of Hitler's Christianity, yes.
Mein kampf of which there are several pdfs online.

Hitler and the church

Hitler leaving church.

German soldiers being blessed by a priest

And of course the nazi motto.. god with us.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Of the churches refusal to remove me for their lists... No. It was verbal.

Of Hitler's Christianity, yes.
Mein kampf of which there are several pdfs online.

View attachment 58209

Hitler and the church

View attachment 58210

Hitler leaving church.

View attachment 58212

German soldiers being blessed by a priest

View attachment 58213

And of course the nazi motto.. god with us.

Pretty weak evidence imo. I could probably Google some photos of Josef Stalin with a senior Orthodox cleric. Do you think Stalin was Christian?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Lets look at what Hitler said...

"Hitler and the Nazi party promoted "Positive Christianity",[13] a movement which rejected most traditional Christian doctrines such as the divinity of Jesus, as well as Jewish elements such as the Old Testament"

"Amid his political associates in Berlin, Hitler made harsh pronouncements against the church", yet "he conceived of the church as an instrument that could be useful to him"

"Hitler, wrote Speer, viewed Christianity as the wrong religion for the "Germanic temperament":[48] Speer wrote that Hitler would say: "You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion."

"Within the transcripts, Hitler speaks of Christianity as "absurdity" and "humbug" founded on "lies" with which he could "never come personally to terms."

Read more here....
Religious views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia.

So... do you think that when someonr starts their own Christian denomination and condemns all the others, this is a sign that they aren't Christian?

*cough*
Martin Luther
*cough*

 

[RestlessSoul]

So... do you think that when someonr starts their own Christian denomination and condemns all the others, this is a sign that they aren't Christian?

*cough*
Martin Luther
*cough*

*cough
Excommunicated for heresy
*cough

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

*cough
Excommunicated for heresy
*cough

Do you think Catholic and Christian are the same thing?

 

[RestlessSoul]

Do you think Catholic and Christian are the same thing?

There is a considerable overlap, certainly.

 

[pearl]

This has been a question that’s been on my mind as of late. As I have not been praying to God or doing any spiritual practice for a couple months now. I’ll wonder if I die today, if that will effect my judgement? Do I need to die while being close to God? What if I die while I’ve strayed? Once a Christian, always a Christian? A good question :^]

I think that's where one separates religion from faith. It is faith that saves, not religion. Salvation will be determined on who one has become, not on a few lack moments.

 

[Shadow11]

People here don't know the history of the Christian Church - Catholics aren't Christians what a ridiculous response bury your head in the sand again Lol. You'll call a Mormon a christian but not a Catholic. Totally ignorant statements and no I am not catholic but I know what it is unlike others here.

 

[Colt]

Take the atheist argument of since Hitler was raised a christian he stayed a christian. Does that hold any truth?

If that's true how many of you here are really atheists? I mean if you were raised a christian/in a religion, doesn't that mean you are still that?

Like most religions, the Christian church is a social club around a belief. Members may or may not have a personal relationship with God. A Christian can ignore the very God they believe in.