Economic Slavery

[lewisnotmiller]

Even in Denmark now, Mcdonalds have ordering screens, so most of the time there might be one employee standing at the desk serving people and handing out food, where there used to be maybe 3-5 people standing there taking orders.

Just FYI, we use those in Australia at McDonalds.
Supermarkets also largely employ self check-out stations (although they also have traditional check-outs).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don’t see my employer as a parental figure. But they are beholden to the duty of care (even though it is admittedly coerced in a capitalist society.) If I injure myself doing my job, my employer is the one who has to take legal responsibility. They created the working conditions and if those fail to meet the standards of health and safety in my country, then they are at fault. Likewise I am responsible for reporting any concerns with a drop in safety standards and to not overexert myself which is dangerous to my health. It takes two to tango. And you know in society the government should ideally answer to its citizens. It has a duty of care. One that again is also usually coerced in a capitalist society. But nonetheless exists. If my government fails me, then I am allowed to call them out. Granted mine has arguably already failed my generation, but that’s a topic for another thread.
My government wants me to contribute? Fine by me. But they need to provide a proper safety net to ensure I can retire in peace after having done my bit. Otherwise they have failed in my eyes

When I was hurt at one job, my employer didn't pay and the hospital went after me for the expenses. Fortunately for me this company had a problem of not paying the bills and next thing I know I got a call/letter from a legal group saying they were representing me in my case against the employer and I had to do nothing.

 

[Kooky]

I don’t understand. Well I do but you know. How come employers were allowed to not take care of their employees?

It's not in their financial interest to pay extra money for safety and environmental standards, healthcare, work clothing etc. because that money is not directly put into profit generation. So there is a strong motivation to push those costs onto others.

We can therefore see a frequent correlation between fewer regulations for businesses, weaker labor representation, and the terrible treatment of employees.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Ideally yes. But people are too materialistic, imo.

I know many folks who work jobs that would be the sort of “wage slavery” type jobs the US would refer to as and they live reasonably comfortable lives. Granted that’s usually because they have a partner who also earns. That’s not to say my country doesn’t have those sorts of awful exploitative jobs also. But many of the big brand retail companies for example do tend to pay above minimum wage for its permanent employees. Though they can be rather cutthroat in many other aspects.

Out of curiosity, does the US have a mandatory Superannuation scheme for employees? Or equivalent?
I feel compelled to ask since I know the US doesn’t have many of the mandatory benefits other Western Nations must provide employees by law.

Be careful when speaking to our American friends on these topics. The minimum wage in the US is very low in most areas, roughly half what it is in Australia. And differences in healthcare and superannuation are substantial.

Talking to them about this stuff is interesting, but just make sure they know what you mean, and you know what they mean when talking about superannuation vs retirement plans (because it's not apples and apples) or minimum wage.
Someone in America on minimum wage can't live (often) unless it's subsidized by a secondary income, or cash tips, etc. Whereas in Australia you'd be battling to pay rent and get food on minimum wage, in America it's just not possible.

Can make for some confusing conversations in my experience!

Anyways....like all my advice, feel free to disregard. Just my 'old man' thoughts...lol

 

[lewisnotmiller]

It's not in their interest to pay extra money to comply to safety and environmental standards, healthcare, work clothing etc. so there is a strong motivation to push those costs onto other. We can therefore see a strong correlation between fewer regulations for businesses, weaker labor representation, and the terrible treatment of employees.

For an Australian, it gets tricky understanding the lack of regulations in some areas, I think.
And in a more holistic sense, many Australians aren't aware that American employees get less leave than Australians, for example.
I have no idea if Americans are generally aware they get less than many other nations.

List of minimum annual leave by country - Wikipedia

 

[Kooky]

For an Australian, it gets tricky understanding the lack of regulations in some areas, I think.
Most Australians aren't aware that American employees get less leave than Australians, for example.
I have no idea if Americans are generally aware they get less than many other nations.

List of minimum annual leave by country - Wikipedia

I'm not American, but in my countries there are still areas that are more regulated than others. Specifically low paying jobs in the service industry tend to be the less regulated ones, with poorer labor representation on top of it, which also tends to disproportionally hurt women as they are the ones who tend to be employed in such jobs the most.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It's not in their financial interest to pay extra money for safety and environmental standards, healthcare, work clothing etc. because that money is not directly put into profit generation. So there is a strong motivation to push those costs onto others.

I forgot we often have to pay for uniforms here.
And plenty of arselings consider work uniforms a benefit for the employee who gets clothes out of the deal.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I'm not American, but in my countries there are still areas that are more regulated than others. Specifically low paying jobs in the service industry tend to be the less regulated ones, with poorer labor representation on top of it, which also tends to disproportionally hurt women as they are the ones who tend to be employed in such jobs the most.

Practically, there is an element of that here too (Australia) although legally that is not really the case.
If you're okay with saying, which country do you reside in?

 

[JustGeorge]

For an Australian, it gets tricky understanding the lack of regulations in some areas, I think.
Most Australians aren't aware that American employees get less leave than Australians, for example.
I have no idea if Americans are generally aware they get less than many other nations.

List of minimum annual leave by country - Wikipedia

Its not always paid, either. My maternity leave certainly wasn't. I begged and borrowed from relatives to be able to afford food and rent for those 6 weeks I took off for maternity leave when my oldest was born. My sister had to beg a doctor to release her to work after only two weeks postpartum as she had no means to make ends meet(she burned bridges within the family and had no one to beg or borrow from).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Be careful when speaking to our American friends on these topics. The minimum wage in the US is very low in most areas, roughly half what it is in Australia. And differences in healthcare and superannuation are substantial.

$7.25/hour is the federal minimum for non-tipped workers. It is $2.13/hour for tipped workers.
Paltry doesn't even begin to describe it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Its not always paid, either. My maternity leave certainly wasn't. I begged and borrowed from relatives to be able to afford food and rent for those 6 weeks I took off for maternity leave when my oldest was born. My sister had to beg a doctor to release her to work after only two weeks postpartum as she had no means to make ends meet(she burned bridges within the family and had no one to beg or borrow from).

I worked with one lady who gave birth and then went right back to work.
I never had paid sick leave until I moved to California.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Its not always paid, either. My maternity leave certainly wasn't. I begged and borrowed from relatives to be able to afford food and rent for those 6 weeks I took off for maternity leave when my oldest was born. My sister had to beg a doctor to release her to work after only two weeks postpartum as she had no means to make ends meet(she burned bridges within the family and had no one to beg or borrow from).

It's a more recent change here, to be honest, and our rules are a little tricky.
But the simplistic version is that you get 18 weeks leave paid at minimum wage (ie. not your wage).
This effectively a government safety net, and some employees offer more than this. My wife is a nurse, and she got more, although the period was the same.

[edit] Meant to say, you can take one year off, but after those 18 weeks, it might be unpaid (and in many cases would be). You are then legally allowed to apply in writing for a further 12 months off, but the employer doesn't need to grant it. If they do (in writing), it's unpaid, but your job is guaranteed at the end of that (basically).

 

[lewisnotmiller]

$7.25/hour is the federal minimum for non-tipped workers. It is $2.13/hour for tipped workers.
Paltry doesn't even begin to describe it.

Yup. I know.
Combined with lack of guaranteed annual leave, parental leave, sick leave, etc (in many cases) it's quite different to what we're used to here.
And different again from what our Scandinavian friends are used to.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

At will employment is another abomination of the American system.
That means we can be fired for any reason (other than those specifically stated as illegal), at any time, without notification. It's common to have to acknowledge on a job application that if hired your position is at will employment.

 

[SomeRandom]

Be careful when speaking to our American friends on these topics. The minimum wage in the US is very low in most areas, roughly half what it is in Australia. And differences in healthcare and superannuation are substantial.

Talking to them about this stuff is interesting, but just make sure they know what you mean, and you know what they mean when talking about superannuation vs retirement plans (because it's not apples and apples) or minimum wage.
Someone in America on minimum wage can't live (often) unless it's subsidized by a secondary income, or cash tips, etc. Whereas in Australia you'd be battling to pay rent and get food on minimum wage, in America it's just not possible.

Can make for some confusing conversations in my experience!

Anyways....like all my advice, feel free to disregard. Just my 'old man' thoughts...lol

Yes this is true. I do usually try to add context when communicating with my US counterparts regarding such topics. But do remember I’m also perpetually hungover lol so I might not always remember to do so.
For an outsider the US model of economics and related issues looks downright barbaric (no offence to my US friends.)

 

[SomeRandom]

When I was hurt at one job, my employer didn't pay and the hospital went after me for the expenses. Fortunately for me this company had a problem of not paying the bills and next thing I know I got a call/letter from a legal group saying they were representing me in my case against the employer and I had to do nothing.

Ahh yes I forget sometimes the added stress of medical fees for my US brethren. I tend to take it for granted that I can get sick tomorrow and not go bankrupt as a result. That is a privilege I should acknowledge more

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Ahh yes I forget sometimes the added stress of medical fees for my US brethren. I tend to take it for granted that I can get sick tomorrow and not go bankrupt as a result. That is a privilege I should acknowledge more

It's not so much a privilege as it just how backwards and cruel America is. Other's shouldn't really be acknowledging it as some privilege, Americans should be rioting that full time work doesn't pay the bills and we aren't entitled to our health as a right.

 

[SomeRandom]

It's not so much a privilege as it just how backwards and cruel America is. Other's shouldn't really be acknowledging it as some privilege, Americans should be rioting that full time work doesn't pay the bills and we aren't entitled to our health as a right.

Very true. The US is probably the reason why I became an anti capitalist. To see such suffering and an indifferent program incentivised to hurt people. Well it saddens me even still

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Very true. The US is probably the reason why I became an anti capitalist. To see such suffering and an indifferent program incentivised to hurt people. Well it saddens me even still

I started out on the far right. My working life has seen me continually slide further and further left. The biggest jump was during the Recession, when I was getting promoted at work and having a perpetually growing list of responsibilities but not seeing any raises for it. "More hours" is what they told me my raise was.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I avoid Chinese products when there's a domestic alternative.

So you buy a lot of Chinese goods then?