No more babies being delivered at NY hospital

[Shadow Wolf]

Staying 6 feet away is actually impossible if you go to the store, post office or a restaurant. If you want to avoid all virus', you have to avoid people, period. What is hard to understand about that? That piece of cloth isn't going to save you.
Saw a woman on the bike trail, out in the open air, not close to anyone but her husband, with a hanky over her face. Those people make me want to cry. They have bought into the comply at all costs, hook, line, and sinker. At that point, I have to think it's just blind compliance, devoid of any reason.

You don't even know why he had it on. Just a baseless assumption.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Addiction to nicotine. That's why cigarette companies used to add the chemical to tobacco to make it more addictive.

Nicotine is a natural thing produced by tobacco. Sort like how THC and CBD are naturally a part of cannabis.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Presently, we have no way to force people to to take vaccines when not medically contraindicated, but I would change that if I could.

And there it is folks! The end goal, forced compliance!

 

[Wildswanderer]

You don't even know why he had it on. Just a baseless assumption.

She, not he. There was no other reason to have a bandana over her nose.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

She, not he. There was no other reason to have a bandana over her nose.

Allergies, medical conditions, whatever. You don't know.

 

[Wildswanderer]

They really had a choice. They weren't held down and vaccinated against their wills. Those that quit are the evidence of that. Nobody stalked them, or arrested them, or chloroformed and vaccinated them. And they exercised that choice, some opting for the vaccine, some for other work.

They may be pressured eventually by financial concerns if they will not vaccinate and cannot earn what they were earning in a professional position. Some will do fine, and everybody should be happy - the nurses that don't want a vaccine, and those that don't want to employ one without it.

However, some will feel financial pressure, although they have incurred that themselves with their choice. I'm thinking about the nurse who is a single parent of minor children with a single source of income who was just getting by before a significant drop in income. Such a person might have to give up vacations, braces, private school, eating out, and in some cases, a roof and food for the kids, or relent and take the vaccine. I don't see too many nurses letting that happen to themselves and their families.

"Put this drug into your body or lose your income! " Is this Biden talking or Al Capone? I can't tell the difference between our government and the mafia.

 

[Alienistic]

I'm fond of nurses. I'm a retired physician who worked for decades with them in ERs, ICUs, nursing homes, and hospices, and I like an respect almost all of them. But the ones who want to refuse a vaccine more than work around hospital patients have nothing to offer the profession any longer,

This is my question here, is it better to lose however many medical professional staff country-wide over mandates? These medical professionals have no more to offer, really? In New York they are being asked to stay on board due to staff shortages as long as complying with regular covid tests being done as well as wearing proper PPE. So while your solution is to kick them all to the curb, there are plenty of other reasonable methods to handle it. They have plenty to offer, as they’ve been offering since the start. You can have no respect for them if you choose and for all of the lives they’ve helped going forward.

The problem is that Western democracies see adults as autonomous citizens qualified to pursue happiness intelligently, and thus esteem maximal freedom in decision making.

Sure, I entirely agree that freedom is for the responsible. Who judges and defines what exactly is considered “being responsible” is a separate story.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

"Put this drug into your body or lose your income! " Is this Biden talking or Al Capone? I can't tell the difference between our government and the mafia.

Medical workers are already required to get an assortment of vaccines. If you can't meet the requirements of a job, if you can't accept the responsibility of your position, get out of the way so someone who better suited for the job can have it.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Keep telling yourself that.

As a native, you should know better than to trust the government.
They never only take one right away, it's always progressive.

 

[Alienistic]

Medical workers are already required to get an assortment of vaccines. If you can't meet the requirements of a job, if you can't accept the responsibility of your position, get out of the way so someone who better suited for the job can have it.

I don’t think it is that easy. The risks vs rewards have to weighed. Hospitals are already short staffed. I doubt there is a line of qualified nurses and all other roles in the medical field desperately waiting in line to enter themselves into a hostile pandemic, whether vaccinated or unvaccinated.

 

[Alienistic]

The lack of respect here for all of the unvaccinated medical staff who have risked and given their lives in helping hundreds of millions of people throughout a hostile and stressful situation is mind blowing... over a vaccine mandate. When they’ve been doing this way before a vaccine even existed and have been while one has existed.

It truly is sad that these medical employees are being called selfish, destructive to society, should have no access to medical care themselves, should be not considered human or taken seriously in anything, to go with all of the other negative things everyone here has said about them.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Vaccine mandates are the best option available. Those who are still opposed to vaccinating themselves can figure out workarounds. They can still get all the necessities of life without a vaccine, and more and more jobs now are entirely work from home.

Yes.

I never said they were not.

If the job they end up with isn't in their chosen field or if they miss having a drink at their local bar, well... their choices have consequences. Better for them to live with them that for everyone else to let those choices kill people.

They were already in their positions. If they had got a new job and complained about the requirements,

You would have a point. But in this case no.

In virtually every COVID-related post you make.

I need concrete examples.

Don't presume to tell me what to

Your bias is coloring what I'm saying.

For example. I said repeatidly I'm not against vaccines.

Yet you're treating the convo as if I said otherwise. Unless you can prove it, it's just going off your opinions of me and not what I actually said.

Reassess what I literally tell you verses your opinions. It makes the convo smoother

 

[F1fan]

Seriously. You guys put more into my story than what's actually true....

My comment was about you?

It was if what I wrote describes your attitude as a conservative. Is that what you want to say?

 

[F1fan]

And there it is folks! The end goal, forced compliance!

As it is the citizens of the USA have a forced pandemic (because a significant percentage of citizens refuse to vaccinate for political reasons).

Which is worse, not effectively beating a pandemic so many more get sick and die, or having to be vaccinated to end the pandemic?

 

[F1fan]

As a native, you should know better than to trust the government.

Trump was voted out so it's safe to trust government again. Except in some deep red states where the policies threaten many citizens lives for political reasons.

Explain how the ideas republicans are promoting is good for America as a whole.

 

[F1fan]

Then one can say that most human beings attacking and ridiculing the character of others as being dangerous are also dangerous themselves if they have not followed up with their boosters on all or most other vaccinations since birth. Claiming immunity when they have no such thing.

ONLY once the booster schedule has been announced and those people you're referring to refuse to get them. Let us know when you find anyone of this group. Until then the fact they got two shots to beat Covid makes them more ethical and socially responsible than those who refuse to vaccinate for non-medical reasons.

Still very much allowed in a majority of places in the States. And most are refusing to wear any masks because they are not mandated to if they received a vaccine, especially at many employers. Yet they are in the loving, selfless, and great society member club.

We keep hearing how republicans prefer no public standards for behavior because they want the option to be up to the individual. But we know there are too many individuals whose judgment is very poor, and their beliefs being influenced by right wing disinformation. It's these people who pose a threat to public health, and one responsibility government has is to protect public health and safety from contagious diseases. The GOP is failing this responsibility and obligation.

How do you think the GOP attitude actually helps society as a whole?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Seriously? Herd immunity was literally talked about from the start of the pandemic. It was even referred to by the trump administration as they were considering the USA not lock down and just let Covid run rampant through the population so herd immunity was achieved naturally. Of course trump's economic advisor estimated over 2 million citizens would die in that approach. They considered it. Eventually states and cities decided to lockdown. Remember the administration never advocated for any lockdowns. These select states and cities were not open to a death rate in the millions. This was why we needed lock downs, because the goal of natural herd immunity was not morally acceptable, so the other option was to lock down so the virus stopped spreading and we could buy time for vaccine development.

Seriously.

I don't think lockdowns are effective. Whoever has the virus is just making people in their immediate environment sick. When the lockdowns let up, they infect other people.

If a person is not sure if they are healthy enough to get vaccinated it is up to a healthcare expert to assess. A lay person doing research on the internet? That is what fools do.

Plus those who are choosing to not vaccinate for political reasons, not medical reasons, ARE going against medical advice. The medical advice is: Get vaccinated. If you are afraid or uncertain, talk to your doctor.

Healthcare expert would be one's personal doctor.

Thankfully, some people don't consider vaccines any different than taking medications when assessing what's best for them and others. Singling out COVID vaccines is highly political. In any other situation, there'd be more thought into what a person takes and why.

It should be: talk to your doctor first before you get vaccinated.

All medications, vaccines, and so forth have that--if you're concerned talk to your doctor first.

You don't seem to understand how any of this works. We lay people aren't in a position to conclude anything. We need to listen to what experts in public health say. As it is, conservatives are not listening to experts. And America, and the world, faces a fall and winter that could be devastating to life and the economy.

Just don't take what they say for granted. I'm speaking of those like me who have health conditions, which I assume in one way or another is the majority. However, if you're relatively healthy, then listening to the experts without going to your expert wouldn't harm anyone. Just saying don't take this for granted. I always question the experts. I would not be alive if I had not.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Trump was voted out so it's safe to trust government again.

Wow. Hard to imagine being that naive.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Explain how the ideas republicans are promoting is good for America as a whole.

You mean preserving our individual rights?
Well gee, that's kind of the whole foundation of the declaration of Independence.

 

[Alienistic]

We keep hearing how republicans prefer no public standards for behavior because they want the option to be up to the individual. But we know there are too many individuals whose judgment is very poor, and their beliefs being influenced by right wing disinformation. It's these people who pose a threat to public health, and one responsibility government has is to protect public health and safety from contagious diseases. The GOP is failing this responsibility and obligation.

How do you think the GOP attitude actually helps society as a whole?

There are many vaccinated people being irresponsible according to some here. Not wearing masks, assuming they are immune and free to do as they wish. Also, many being hit hard with covid after being vaccinated when they were told it would be light. (Is this considered misinformation also?) This is also their individual autonomy. Today alone I observed many without masks blowing their noses, sneezing, coughing, not wearing masks, carrying on working because they are free and assume their vaccination is god. Whereas an unvaccinated employee will have their mask on, sanitize their area hourly, wear goggles, gloves. Same with some who are vaccinated taking every precaution that they can for themselves and their coworkers. Many are intelligent and aware enough to stay home or be tested if they have even remote symptoms while many will not. There is no way we can be omniscient to know who all is being responsible or irresponsible so it will always come back to whether one is vaccinated or not vaccinated.