Trailblazer
Veteran Member
If we are we talking about evidence that is admissible in court then we are only talking about court.
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Faith
- Thread starter Psalm23
- Start date
Messianic Israelite
Active Member
Good afternoon Psalm23. We should always ask, What does the Bible say?
"Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1)
I have seen faith grow in my own life and in the life of others and how it has produced good fruit. Yahshua said if we only have faith as a mustard seed we'll be able to move mountains. I believe this, because faith even if small, can become great as a seed that germinates, and produces a tree with much fruit.
Moonjuice
In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey
Evidence that is not admissible in court is not reliably credible evidence, or it would be admissible in court. If hearsay was a reliable way to learn the truth, then it would be admissible. Don't you think?
leroy
Well-Known Member
Faith simply means “trust”
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
If we are talking about court we are talking about court and that applies.
Moonjuice
In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey
Are there forms of evidence that you rely on, that a US court would not recognize as credible evidence?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Evidence that I rely on to prove what?
Moonjuice
In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey
Anything that doesn't require faith.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
What would that be? Everything requires some faith because nothing can ever be known for certain.
I never said that it didn't.
Sometimes Faith exists in the absence of good evidence.
Sometimes Faith exists in the presence of good evidence.
Sometimes the Faith is because we have no evidence.
Sometimes the Faith is because we have good evidence.
I have to disagree with you on that. I trust a particular veterinarian because she has earned my trust so I have faith in her. Owing to experience with her over the years, I also know that she is very competent as well as caring. Another veterinarian could be just as qualified on paper but I would not trust him or her just because of that.
Eh... I think you have a different understanding of faith than I do. Either that, or I trust things in a different way than you. I don't put faith into any one person or thing
If my vet tells me my dog has cancer, I get a second opinion before I have them operate because I most definitely do not put absolute faith into their judgement when it comes to things that alter my life and the life of my dog. I guess a better way to describe my ideas on faith, is really instead of it existing in the absence of good evidence, it exists independently of evidence altogether. It really doesn't rely on evidence at all, and it's something I don't really utilize anymore.
It's not synonymous with "trust" to me, which is subject to change as better information comes along. People can earn my distrust as well, and the trust I extend to people varies in context to what I trust them with and how much I trust them. I trust my roommate to pay her bills on time, but I don't trust her to remember to water the plants. I also keep some extra money on hand just in case she can't pay the rent or bills for whatever reason, even though I trust she will pay them. I don't trust anything completely, and I always have a backup plan in place for the things I encounter in life.
That could be just my hang up on the definition of the word, but I can't say that I use the word "faith" in casual conversation outside of a religious context.
Psalm23
Well-Known Member
When faith is compared to a mustard seed, do you see this as more for trust or could you have mustard seed faith when it comes to believing that an event happened in the past? Can for example one have mustard seed faith when thinking of biblical miracles and events?
Psalm23
Well-Known Member
What forms of evidence are credible in a court? I understand eyewitness account as one. What else would be seen as credible?
Occam's razor - Wikipedia
"Occam's razor ...is the problem-solving principle that "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity",[1][2] sometimes inaccurately paraphrased as "the simplest explanation is usually the best one."[3] The idea is attributed to English Franciscan friar William of Ockham (c. 1287–1347), a scholastic philosopher and theologian who used a preference for simplicity to defend the idea of divine miracles. This philosophical razor advocates that when presented with competing hypotheses about the same prediction, one should select the solution with the fewest assumptions,[4]"
If I see some dark and shadowy figure peering at me through the window at night, which one is more likely: a supernatural demonic being who's existence cannot be proven inside of a scientific setting and who only exists within the confines of one particular religious system's beliefs, or some guy looking to break into my house?
Psalm23
Well-Known Member
When I think of faith I think of different things.
I see it much like trust in a religious sense but also in relationships with others. I think faith can be small and co-exist with doubt or questioning. I think of faith as a letting go of control and believing God is in control and cares for you. I consider faith as a willingness to walk through the uncertainty if you don’t have all the answers.
I see it much like trust in a religious sense but also in relationships with others. I think faith can be small and co-exist with doubt or questioning. I think of faith as a letting go of control and believing God is in control and cares for you. I consider faith as a willingness to walk through the uncertainty if you don’t have all the answers.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I used to be that way with the cats, going to both conventional and holistic vets who gave me different opinions, but I came to realize that it only made me confused and unable to make a decision. If I had something serious like cancer my present vet would refer me out to a veterinary oncologist, as she has refereed me to a veterinary cardiologist now, but for routine dental work she is completely competent.
I don't trust anything completely but there is a point where I have to make a decision as I did with my cat - have the dental work or the cat continues in pain. As it turned out the vet was unable to do the dental work because my cat had an irregular heart rhythm in anesthesia so she had to wake her up. So now we go Plan B which is to get an echocardiogram to determine if she has heart disease.
I always have a backup plan too, like with my rental house. If I do not get the rental assistance from the money appropriated for that in the Biden bill, I will have had to go to Plan B and insist the tenant pay or I would have to sue him in court. The rental assistance program coordinator has already approved the money so I expect to get it this month but it is still a bit worrisome until I actually get it because it is a lot of money.
Psalm23
Well-Known Member
I remember a time hearing noises at night that worried me. Thought someone may have been outside. Turned out it was a fan inside the house blowing on something hanging up and that was hitting the wall.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Forensic evidence is the best kind of evidence for criminal cases, now let's see if we can find some forensic evidence for God.
Moonjuice
In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey
It's always difficult to have a discussion about a word, when we do not seem to agree on the usage of the word. Obviously, there are different ways to define the word "faith". I think the definition the OP is using is the common "firm belief in something which there is no conclusive evidence" use of the word, especially if we are talking about anything supernatural. Otherwise, it can be used to mean loyalty, sincere intentions, complete trust, etc. It sounds like you use the word to mean " trust", but not necessarily complete trust (since you just said you think nothing can be known for certain).
Let me see one of the ways you describe it:
Never mind, I didn't realize you thought faith is the result of evidence. This might be the first time I have ever heard anyone describe faith as a result based on evidence.
If we are using the word the way everyone else is using it, including the OP, then I definitely disagree. I don't think faith is required for "everything". In fact, I'm having a hard time thinking of anything here in the natural world that requires faith, outside of religion.