Thomas did not receive the Holy Spirit

[Soapy]

John 20, says that TEN of the disciples received the Holy Spirit from Jesus. Thomas was not one of those ten (remember that the twelfth disciple was Judas but he was dead before this point in time)
http://biblehub.com/john/20-19.htm

• 19On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

• 21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.”22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

• Jesus Appears to Thomas

• 24Now Thomas (also known as Didymus a), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

• But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

What fall out effect might this have had on Thomas and was this reflected in verse 25 above?

((Verse 24 states ‘one of the twelve’ without Thomas. But was another disciple chosen before the council where Mathias was chosen? (Acts 1:26) ))

 

[Teritos]

John 20, says that TEN of the disciples received the Holy Spirit from Jesus. Thomas was not one of those ten (remember that the twelfth disciple was Judas but he was dead before this point in time)

• 
  
  
  • 19On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

• 21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.”22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

• Jesus Appears to Thomas

• 24Now Thomas (also known as Didymus a), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

• But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

What fall out effect might this have had on Thomas and was this reflected in verse 25 above?

((Verse 24 states ‘one of the twelve’ without Thomas. But was another disciple chosen before the council where Mathias was chosen? (Acts 1:26) ))

From that point on, Thomas received the Holy Spirit:
Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Place your finger here, and see my hands; and take your hand and put it into my side; and do not continue in disbelief, but be a believer.” Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” John 20:27-28

To acknowledge Jesus as Lord and God is only possible if you have the Holy Spirit within you.

 

[Windwalker]

Pentecostals don't believe anyone had received the Holy Spirit until the day of Pentecost, 50 days after Jesus died. They read the passage in John as telling them the Spirit was going to come to them, which he did in Acts 2.

They then compare that where Jesus said that if he goes away he'll send another comforter, which was the Holy Spirit. He was still with them when he saw then after the resurrection and said he said "receive the Spirit". It was a foreshadowing that they would after he left them. It wasn't until he ascended to heaven that he sent the Spirit to them on the day of Pentecost.

 

[exchemist]

John 20, says that TEN of the disciples received the Holy Spirit from Jesus. Thomas was not one of those ten (remember that the twelfth disciple was Judas but he was dead before this point in time)

• 
  
  
  • 19On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

• 21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.”22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

• Jesus Appears to Thomas

• 24Now Thomas (also known as Didymus a), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

• But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

What fall out effect might this have had on Thomas and was this reflected in verse 25 above?

((Verse 24 states ‘one of the twelve’ without Thomas. But was another disciple chosen before the council where Mathias was chosen? (Acts 1:26) ))

Presumably Thomas was present at Pentecost, though. So he caught up at the repechage.

 

[Soapy]

Good answers so far except for the first one by Teritos. Please note CAREFULLY: Thomas said, ‘MY GOD’. And Jesus said, ‘Touch me, ... I am NOT A SPIRIT’... isnt God, SPIRIT?
I get delightfully fed up of Trinitarians claiming someone said or Jesus said he was ‘God’ when in fact the passage says EXACTLY the opposite. Jesus DENIED saying he was God but Trinitarians immediately say the Jews said he was or Jesus supposed to say he was.... GOD IS SPIRIT and any flesh that looks upon GOD would die such is the GLORY THAT IS ALMIGHTY GOD. Sinful man cannot look upon the glory of the sinless, righteous and holy TRUE GOD. It is PAGANS who can look upon their false Gods and not die!!
‘MY God’ is not an expression in any language that claims a sinful person is looking upon their creator... except in paganism.
Moreover, what was the reaction of the other ten disciples - Are you saying that ten plus 40,000 people saw ALMIGHTY GOD and then went about their day jobs a short time later???

————————————————

So what happened to Thomas’s preaching following pentecost?

Speculations are acceptable as far as the question is concerned.

 

[Teritos]

Good answers so far except for the first one by Teritos. Please note CAREFULLY: Thomas said, ‘MY GOD’. And Jesus said, ‘Touch me, ... I am NOT A SPIRIT’... isnt God, SPIRIT?
I get delightfully fed up of Trinitarians claiming someone said or Jesus said he was ‘God’ when in fact the passage says EXACTLY the opposite. Jesus DENIED saying he was God but Trinitarians immediately say the Jews said he was or Jesus supposed to say he was.... GOD IS SPIRIT and any flesh that looks upon GOD would die such is the GLORY THAT IS ALMIGHTY GOD. Sinful man cannot look upon the glory of the sinless, righteous and holy TRUE GOD. It is PAGANS who can look upon their false Gods and not die!!
‘MY God’ is not an expression in any language that claims a sinful person is looking upon their creator... except in paganism.
Moreover, what was the reaction of the other ten disciples - Are you saying that ten plus 40,000 people saw ALMIGHTY GOD and then went about their day jobs a short time later???

————————————————

So what happened to Thomas’s preaching following pentecost?

Speculations are acceptable as far as the question is concerned.

God is spirit and therefore invisible, that is the reason why he became flesh and became visible. Jesus is the visible manifestation of the invisible God, so says the Bible.

 

[Soapy]

God is spirit and therefore invisible, that is the reason why he became flesh and became visible. Jesus is the visible manifestation of the invisible God, so says the Bible.

No, Teritos.

GOD’s WORD was manifested.

God said he would send a saviour in time to come ... and those words CAME TRUE... GOD’s words PUT ON FLESH... came true... What God prophesies must come true.

God’s word manifested themselves IN the man, Jesus Christ just as God proclaimed in Isaiah 42:1:

• “Behold my servant in whom I am well pleased(1); my chosen one(2) on whom I will put my spirit(3) and he shall bring justice to the nations’

1. ‘And a voice came from heaven saying, “This is my son in whom I am well pleased’
2. ‘This day I have become your Father’
3. And the Holy Spirit of God descended into Jesus in the manner of a dove

——————————
Anyway, the thread is about Thomas. Any idea what happened to Thomas’ preaching?

 

[Soapy]

God is spirit and therefore invisible, that is the reason why he became flesh and became visible. Jesus is the visible manifestation of the invisible God, so says the Bible.

‘Visible manifestation of God’.... isn’t that the same as ‘Image of God’?

And yes, Jesus is the image of the invisible God.

But MANKIND is made in the image of God!

So if you say that Jesus IS GOD because he is the manifestation of GOD then there are two points of issue here:

1. How is a manifestation also THE THING it is a manifestation of? How is an IMAGE of something THE THING it is an image of?
2. If you say that Jesus IS GOD because he is the image (manifestation) of GOD then you must say that MANKIND is ALSO GOD because mankind is made in the manifestation (image) of God.

Exactly what do you mean, then, by ‘Manifestation’?

What does it mean to be ‘an image’ of something.

What does it mean to you that:

• “God’s word was manifested”

What was “God’s Word”?

Did God’s word say that a saviour would be sent?
Was that word manifested?

 

[Soapy]

It is written by contemporary writers:

• “The Gospel of Thomas does not bear the marks of a work of inspiration of the Holy Spirit.”

Any comments in line with the OP?

 

[John1.12]

John 20, says that TEN of the disciples received the Holy Spirit from Jesus. Thomas was not one of those ten (remember that the twelfth disciple was Judas but he was dead before this point in time)

• 
  
  
  • 19On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

• 21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.”22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

• Jesus Appears to Thomas

• 24Now Thomas (also known as Didymus a), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

• But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

What fall out effect might this have had on Thomas and was this reflected in verse 25 above?

((Verse 24 states ‘one of the twelve’ without Thomas. But was another disciple chosen before the council where Mathias was chosen? (Acts 1:26) ))

They don't recieve the Holy spirit in the sense of Acts 2 . They had the holy Spirit in the same way it came upon David ,Samsom, Saul ect . For a task ,for service . The Holy Spirit was not permanently indwelling anyone until after Acts 2 .

 

[Soapy]

They don't recieve the Holy spirit in the sense of Acts 2 . They had the holy Spirit in the same way it came upon David ,Samsom, Saul ect . For a task ,for service . The Holy Spirit was not permanently indwelling anyone until after Acts 2 .

I agree... thanks for that. And, as someone pointed out, Thomas must likely have been in the top room during Pentecost.

So, being in dwelled by the Holy Spirit, what happened to his preaching - which turned out to be faked by later claimed publishers?

In those faked letters, did Thomas declare that he ‘SAW THE ALMIGHTY SPIRIT GOD’ or just that he was astonished at seeing the resurrected Jesus and ejected ‘My Lord and My God’ in deference to the other ten disciples and still thought so after touching ‘MY GOD’...?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Where was the Holy Spirit before Pentecost?

I would suggest that like, God, the Holy Spirit has always been with us and Guiding and comforting us. However Pentecost was the moment when everyone became aware of his presence in our lives. and the power of God working through him. What changed was our awareness.

In modern slang we became "Woke". And gained the power of being woke to the Holy Spirit, and the will of God. We could no longer hide behind our ignorance.

 

[John1.12]

Where was the Holy Spirit before Pentecost?

I would suggest that like, God, the Holy Spirit has always been with us and Guiding and comforting us. However Pentecost was the moment when everyone became aware of his presence in our lives. and the power of God working through him. What changed was our awareness.

In modern slang we became "Woke". And gained the power of being woke to the Holy Spirit, and the will of God. We could no longer hide behind our ignorance.

The holy Spirit would come upon those who followed God . Like Samson , David , Saul ect . For a task , purpose ect. Even baalam

 

[Teritos]

‘Visible manifestation of God’.... isn’t that the same as ‘Image of God’?

And yes, Jesus is the image of the invisible God.

But MANKIND is made in the image of God!

So if you say that Jesus IS GOD because he is the manifestation of GOD then there are two points of issue here:

1. How is a manifestation also THE THING it is a manifestation of? How is an IMAGE of something THE THING it is an image of?
2. If you say that Jesus IS GOD because he is the image (manifestation) of GOD then you must say that MANKIND is ALSO GOD because mankind is made in the manifestation (image) of God.

Exactly what do you mean, then, by ‘Manifestation’?

What does it mean to be ‘an image’ of something.

What does it mean to you that:

• “God’s word was manifested”

What was “God’s Word”?

Did God’s word say that a saviour would be sent?
Was that word manifested?

When the Bible says that man is God's image, it means that man is a ruler like God. Man is, so to speak, a god on earth who should actually rule according to God's will. But when the Bible says that Jesus is the image of God, it means that he was begotten by God. According to the Bible, Jesus is "the only begotten of God". He is God Himself who became flesh, His flesh is the visible form of God. Therefore, he is sinless and all other people are not. And that is why he has always been with God, even before the creation, Jesus already existed. He is the word of God, the breath of God, through which God created everything.

 

[Soapy]

When the Bible says that man is God's image, it means that man is a ruler like God. Man is, so to speak, a god on earth who should actually rule according to God's will. But when the Bible says that Jesus is the image of God, it means that he was begotten by God. According to the Bible, Jesus is "the only begotten of God". He is God Himself who became flesh, His flesh is the visible form of God. Therefore, he is sinless and all other people are not. And that is why he has always been with God, even before the creation, Jesus already existed. He is the word of God, the breath of God, through which God created everything.

Teritos, what does the Bible say about the creation of mankind?

Did you correctly say that God created man in his (God’s) own image?

Did you correctly point out that the image of God means the man is sinless, righteous, and holy because God is sinless, righteous, and holy?

Did you correctly point out that Jesus is a sinless, righteous, and holy man?

Teritos, did you correctly say that man was created to rule?

Teritos, do you agree that Adam was created to rule over creation, ‘Father’, the Father of humanity? … as God is ‘Father’ over all Heaven and creation

Teritos, was Adam created sinless, holy, and righteous:

• ‘Son of God’ (Luke 3:38)

and certainly, ‘THE ONLY [human] Son of God’ at that time…. The only ‘begotten of God’ at that time:

• ‘This day I have become your Father and you have become my Son’

But then sin came into Adam and he fell from the pure Sonship….

HENCE ANOTHER SON had to be created…. Notice that BOTH Adam AND Jesus were BORN (given life) BY the interaction of the Holy Spirit OF GOD. And it is this that made then sinless, holy, and righteous. Adam, with sin in him, procreated offspring also with sin in them so only another pure Holy Spirited enlivening could create a sinless Son (incorporated by the ‘Seed of the Woman’)

(Have you said ‘no’ to anything yet?)

Teritos, what did Jesus say to Thomas in the upper room?

Did Jesus tell Thomas that he was ‘not a Spirit’?

Teritos, is GOD a Spirit?

Teritos, did you correctly say that Jesus is the word of God?

Teritos, did the word of God get humiliated, flogged, spat on, beaten, mocked, and die a brutal death on a cross?

Teritos, did GOD resurrect his word into an immortal body?

Teritos, did Thomas touch the word of God?

Teritos, how did the other ten disciples react when they saw the resurrected word of God? Did the ‘Rock’, Simon Peter, say that he had seen God?

Teritos, what the scriptures say about ‘seeing God’ - does it say that no one has seen God and lived?

Teritos, I think there is much you may need to understand concerning what you think you believe about God and the image of God…. And the word of God… and who is God?

Teritos, I wrote these things to you for your consideration - feel free to answer as you will.

Thanks.

 

[Soapy]

To acknowledge Jesus as Lord and God is only possible if you have the Holy Spirit within you.

If you are claiming a belief that Jesus is Lord and God then you certainly do not have the Holy Spirit within you.

• “For there is ONE GOD, the Father…and…”
• “There is ONE Lord, Jesus Christ…”
• “Father,… this means eternal life that they should believe in you, THE ONLY TRUE GOD…and…”
• “In Jesus Christ, WHOM YOU SENT”
• “…Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

There is no room for error of thought from Jesus Christ or the Apostles.

• GOD IS THE Father
• THE Father is GOD
• The Father SENT the Son (after the baptism at the river Jordan)

God, the Father, and Jesus, the Christ, are two different persons: one is SPIRIT and the other is FLESH.

God the Father created a flesh world to be ruled over by a flesh ‘image’ of himself. One ruler in flesh to rule over a flesh kingdom.

Adam was first - but sinned. Jesus was next and did not sin… Jesus sustained his righteousness and died for the sin of the first man, Adam, hence Jesus is called, ‘The Last Adam’:

• ‘For he sets aside the first [Adam] and established the second [Jesus]’ (Hebrews 10:9)
• “And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” (Hebrews 10:10)

Jesus was sacrificed for the atonement of the sin of Adam… throughout the history of the Jews/Israelites up to that point, priests had been sacrificing bulls, cows, goats, lambs, in a vain attempt at an atonement -but God was not pleased by these…

God required a sacrifice of a sinless human for the sinful human….

This is what Jesus Christ fulfilled.

 

[thomas loebel]

From that point on, Thomas received the Holy Spirit:
Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Place your finger here, and see my hands; and take your hand and put it into my side; and do not continue in disbelief, but be a believer.” Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” John 20:27-28

To acknowledge Jesus as Lord and God is only possible if you have the Holy Spirit within you.

You are one of the few that know thomas is the hidden one that shares the truth. "thomas said. "you did not show us the father" which means he knows the son [faith] and the holy spirit [love] but not wilderness first.[father] thomas was not there because he knows already just like it is for us. thomas is the doubter of the lord jesus christ in others that is written the same way reversed to be the hidden one. think of him learning that others do not want to see so he is the doubter of the same thing written but for others who also doubt he will think like them. he raced peter to be the next one. best way to be hidden is to be so strongly assumed backwards by all. The one the lord loved [means they share the same love different from others].

 

[DNB]

Pentecostals don't believe anyone had received the Holy Spirit until the day of Pentecost, 50 days after Jesus died. They read the passage in John as telling them the Spirit was going to come to them, which he did in Acts 2.

They then compare that where Jesus said that if he goes away he'll send another comforter, which was the Holy Spirit. He was still with them when he saw then after the resurrection and said he said "receive the Spirit". It was a foreshadowing that they would after he left them. It wasn't until he ascended to heaven that he sent the Spirit to them on the day of Pentecost.

I think that the Holy Spirit was sent en-masse on the Day of Pentecost, specifically as a sign to the resurrection of Jesus by the consequent strengthening and power of the Church. But, there were clearly signs of its endowment to others prior to this event. Both Elijah and Elisha were bestowed this gift (2 Kings 2:9), David spoke by the Holy Spirit (Mark 12:36), the disciples performed countless miracles prior to Jesus' resurrection (Mark 6:7-13), etc..

And, of course, cessationists (Reformed) believe that this gift and its manifestations (1 Corinthians 12:7-11) are no longer available to the Church. I do not accept the cessationsts view, but hold to the continuationist position.

 

[74x12]

John 20, says that TEN of the disciples received the Holy Spirit from Jesus. Thomas was not one of those ten (remember that the twelfth disciple was Judas but he was dead before this point in time)

• 
  
  
  • 19On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 20After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

• 21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.”22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

• Jesus Appears to Thomas

• 24Now Thomas (also known as Didymus a), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

• But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

What fall out effect might this have had on Thomas and was this reflected in verse 25 above?

((Verse 24 states ‘one of the twelve’ without Thomas. But was another disciple chosen before the council where Mathias was chosen? (Acts 1:26) ))

None of them yet had the holy Spirit. Jesus breathed on them but the breath didn't come until the day of Pentecost. This is why Jesus told them to wait at Jerusalem until they were endowed with power from on high. There was no need to wait if they already had the holy Spirit.

The breath of the holy Spirit finally came in Acts 2:1-4. Then they were all filled with the breath of God and this is why Jesus breathed on them to show them whose breath was coming on them.

 

[Soapy]

None of them yet had the holy Spirit. Jesus breathed on them but the breath didn't come until the day of Pentecost. This is why Jesus told them to wait at Jerusalem until they were endowed with power from on high. There was no need to wait if they already had the holy Spirit.

The breath of the holy Spirit finally came in Acts 2:1-4. Then they were all filled with the breath of God and this is why Jesus breathed on them to show them whose breath was coming on them.

I agree mostly but what does, ‘whose breath was coming on them’. Tell me more as I’m confused what you are saying!