Does your belief / religion ect offer a better deal ?

[Trailblazer]

Is there anyone who can honestly say they are guaranteed a place in paradise?

That depends upon which religion you believe in. Doesn't Islam guarantee a place in paradise? The Baha'i Faith offers one, but we are told NOT to do what we do to attain paradise.

“WORSHIP thou God in such wise that if thy worship lead thee to the fire, no alteration in thine adoration would be produced, and so likewise if thy recompense should be paradise.... Fire and paradise both bow down and prostrate themselves before God. That which is worthy of His Essence is to worship Him for His sake, without fear of fire, or hope of paradise.

Although when true worship is offered, the worshipper is delivered from the fire, and entereth the paradise of God’s good-pleasure, yet such should not be the motive of his act. However, God’s favour and grace ever flow in accordance with the exigencies of His inscrutable wisdom.” Selections From the Writings of the Báb, pp. 77-78

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Better deal? No, I'm Jewish.

 

[Spirit of Light]

That depends upon which religion you believe in. Doesn't Islam guarantee a place in paradise? The Baha'i Faith offers one, but we are told NOT to do what we do to attain paradise.

“WORSHIP thou God in such wise that if thy worship lead thee to the fire, no alteration in thine adoration would be produced, and so likewise if thy recompense should be paradise.... Fire and paradise both bow down and prostrate themselves before God. That which is worthy of His Essence is to worship Him for His sake, without fear of fire, or hope of paradise.

Although when true worship is offered, the worshipper is delivered from the fire, and entereth the paradise of God’s good-pleasure, yet such should not be the motive of his act. However, God’s favour and grace ever flow in accordance with the exigencies of His inscrutable wisdom.” Selections From the Writings of the Báb, pp. 77-78

I can only speak from my understanding of Sufi teaching, and in my understanding each person must work with them self on an inward journey to remove all attachment and ill will them self before even thinking they are ready to enter paradise.

 

[Trailblazer]

There's a lot of stuff that just doesn't bother me that bothers most folks, I've lately realised.

And there is a lot of stuff that just doesn't bother me that bothers most folks, I've lately realized, like when all the Covid restrictions will be lifted so we can get back to "normal" so we can engage in all the recreational and social activities most people enjoy that I find totally boring and unnecessary.

 

[Trailblazer]

What is offered to whosoever is certainty of reconciliation to God , Peace with God , The gift of the Holy Spirit, fellowship with God , Guaranteed eternal life in heaven when you die . No fear of death ect .

Alert! I have read every post on this thread which I rarely ever do when a thread has gotten this long, but this subject is very important to me so I took the time. I answered a few posts but I saved the links to your posts that I plan to answer and Polymath's posts I plan to answer, so they will be coming at you now all at once.

You said: What is offered to whosoever is certainty of reconciliation to God , Peace with God , The gift of the Holy Spirit, fellowship with God , Guaranteed eternal life in heaven when you die . No fear of death ect .

Let's go down the list:

reconciliation to God - I do not believe there is any need to be reconciled because I do not believe in original sin
Peace with God - I believe many religions offer that
The gift of the Holy Spirit - Christianity is not the only religion that offers that
fellowship with God - Christianity is not the only religion that offers that
Guaranteed eternal life in heaven when you die - Christianity is not the only religion that offers that
No fear of death - Christianity is not the only religion that offers that

 

[Trailblazer]

If indeed its true that the prerequisite to recieve eternal life is ' believing the Gospel ' , believing what Jesus has done for our sins , but this is needed to be recieved simply through faith. ?

I believe that we have to believe in Jesus and the cross sacrifice to receive eternal life, but I do not believe that cross sacrifice was for the purpose of removing an original sin committed by Adam and Eve.
The reason for the cross sacrifice is explained here:

Question.—In verse 22 of chapter 15 of 1 Corinthians it is written: “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” What is the meaning of these words?

29: EXPLANATION OF VERSE TWENTY-TWO, CHAPTER FIFTEEN, OF THE FIRST EPISTLE OF ST. PAUL TO THE CORINTHIANS

That said, I cannot say I believe that it is enough to believe in Jesus in order to attain eternal life.... more on that later.

 

[Rival]

As a Pagan, I don't need Jesus or salvation or any of this stuff at all; I'm trying to figure why I 'should'.

 

[Trailblazer]

Is it fair to say ,each religion / truth claim is presenting ' good news ' ? my discussion is essentially this . I believe there is no greater good news to be found anywhere else, other than what I have . But I'm open to hear if there is ?

I do not like to think in terms of greater because it is a Baha'i belief that all of God's revealed religions are great....
That said, I believe I have more good news to add on to your good news so in that sense you will be getting more with my package deal than what you already have, in addition to what you already have.

 

[Trailblazer]

what is on offer by Jesus cannot be ' bettered '

Wanna bet?

 

[John1.12]

I believe that we have to believe in Jesus and the cross sacrifice to receive eternal life, but I do not believe that cross sacrifice was for the purpose of removing an original sin committed by Adam and Eve.
The reason for the cross sacrifice is explained here:

Question.—In verse 22 of chapter 15 of 1 Corinthians it is written: “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” What is the meaning of these words?

29: EXPLANATION OF VERSE TWENTY-TWO, CHAPTER FIFTEEN, OF THE FIRST EPISTLE OF ST. PAUL TO THE CORINTHIANS

That said, I cannot say I believe that it is enough to believe in Jesus in order to attain eternal life.... more on that later.

I do not believe in the Calvinist version of Original sin ,which comes from Augustine.

 

[John1.12]

Wanna bet?

Fire away ..

 

[John1.12]

That depends upon which religion you believe in. Doesn't Islam guarantee a place in paradise? The Baha'i Faith offers one, but we are told NOT to do what we do to attain paradise.

“WORSHIP thou God in such wise that if thy worship lead thee to the fire, no alteration in thine adoration would be produced, and so likewise if thy recompense should be paradise.... Fire and paradise both bow down and prostrate themselves before God. That which is worthy of His Essence is to worship Him for His sake, without fear of fire, or hope of paradise.

Although when true worship is offered, the worshipper is delivered from the fire, and entereth the paradise of God’s good-pleasure, yet such should not be the motive of his act. However, God’s favour and grace ever flow in accordance with the exigencies of His inscrutable wisdom.” Selections From the Writings of the Báb, pp. 77-78

No Islam does not guarantee anything..Its a commitment of good deeds outweighing the bad ..There are no Gurantees in Islam.

 

[Trailblazer]

Salvation in the New testament is described as a ' free gift ' . We should be ' smug ' and insufferable with Joy. with receiving eternal life ect .

Whether eternal life is free or not depends upon what part of the New Testament you are reading, Paul or Jesus.

John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

Matthew 16:24-26 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Matthew 25:41-46 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[John1.12]

Whether eternal life is free or not depends upon what part of the New Testament you are reading, Paul or Jesus.

John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

Matthew 16:24-26 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Matthew 25:41-46 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Do you have a new testament verse ?

 

[Trailblazer]

Fire away ..

As the phone message says, your calls will be answered in the order they were received.
I am still working in your posts in the order they came in, one at a time.

 

[Trailblazer]

The certainty of the Journey and the Gurantee is what I believe makes the difference between other religions . Most are dependent on ' self ' ,which doesn't give certainty. its a ' if ' and ' maybe ' path .

That's right, but the Baha'i Faith is somewhat similar to Christianity in that we believe that getting to heaven is not ONLY dependent upon self, it is ALSO dependent upon the mercy of God and His bounty.

....... But we must always remember that our existence and everything we have or ever will have is dependent upon the mercy of God and His bounty, and therefore He can accept into His heaven, which is really nearness to Him, even the lowliest if He pleases. We always have the hope of receiving His mercy if we reach out for it.

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, January 12, 1957)

Lights of Guidance (second part): A Bahá'í Reference File

 

[Trailblazer]

Well in a sense . What's on ' offer' by Jesus is a ' free gift ' . Thats why I offer this challenge, if you like . Because I don't see anything like this presented in any other truth claim/ religion . Every other religion is about what the individual has to do ,and keep doing .

Christianity is ALSO about what you have to do and keep doing, IF you believe in Jesus and not Paul.
(Please see the verses I posted in a post I just answered above.)

What's wrong with doing stuff? Stuff that you get for free in this life is usually not worth having. Why would the rules for getting to heaven be any different than the rules we live by on earth?

 

[Trailblazer]

Again were discussing IF said religion / belief system are true ,then which one offers the best outcome, for now and after death .

I believe it is my religion because I believe it is the religion that God wants us to follow in this age.
I'll get to that later, I am still trying to make my way through all these posts.

 

[Trailblazer]

I wouldn't just accept or believe something based on what's appealing .

I am glad to hear that because I believe we should want to know and follow a religion that is the Truth from God, whether it is appealing or not.

 

[Trailblazer]

Not shopping . When someone is sharing their religion with me ,I often say ,if your religion offers more than what I currently have, I.ll listen ..I've not heard anything yet. So I thought I.d ask on here .

I will get to that eventually, after I get through the list of posts...