Why do you try to discredit religions or religious people?

[Deeje]

I do not say critique is wrong but i think if the critique is done to harm and not to learn why something is as it is, then the critique it self become more harmful.

But yes there is groups within religious practice that would benefit from being critiqued, that i do agree on. or if the practice in it self is harmful either to the practitionairs, or toward those who practice a different teaching/no teaching at all.

From the Christian perspective, I see Jesus' teachings and commands to be for the benefit of his disciples....he taught us to go out into the whole world with his peaceful message to people of all nations, regardless of their religious persuasion. If they accept the message, well and good....but if they refuse, that is their right and their choice.

But there are lots of misunderstandings and misinterpretations that steer people to jump to wrong conclusions.
I will endeavor to correct those misunderstandings if possible. Especially when I see those who identify as "Christian" supporting teachings that did not originate from the Master.

 

[Spirit of Light]

From the Christian perspective, I see Jesus' teachings and commands to be for the benefit of his disciples....he taught us to go out into the whole world with his peaceful message to people of all nations, regardless of their religious persuasion. If they accept the message, well and good....but if they refuse, that is their right and their choice.

But there are lots of misunderstandings and misinterpretations that steer people to jump to wrong conclusions.
I will endeavor to correct those misunderstandings if possible. Especially when I see those who identify as "Christian" supporting teachings that did not originate from the Master.

I agree with you on this @Deeje

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That coinage " One nation under GOD" is speaking of Israel, which is 12 tribes all from jacob; one nation; one family. America is the united states, not one nation, nor one family. That coinage is either an attempt counterfiet, or steal from the israelites, or speaks of the seat of the enemies of the mankind race that seek rule the world. in no way is America a "Godly Nation", or has ever been.

That's different than what I'm saying. We're influenced by christian values and some of our laws were biblical influenced. We're a diverse nation that one wouldn't know whether America is under god since it's not a country with universal religious customs like, say, Iran. Christianity is in our history and our laws are influenced by it. Individual people and even states have their own beliefs and laws that may be more biblically oriented than their peer.

 

[Yahcubs777]

That's different than what I'm saying. We're influenced by christian values and some of our laws were biblical influenced. We're a diverse nation that one wouldn't know whether America is under god since it's not a country with universal religious customs like, say, Iran. Christianity is in our history and our laws are influenced by it. Individual people and even states have their own beliefs and laws that may be more biblically oriented than their peer.

Show me a law that is like a law of GOD in your laws.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

In a perfect world religious people would all participate in a secular system of government where there must be tangible, fact based reasons for law, to better protect the diversity of beliefs within a nation.

We don't live in a perfect world, though, and I end up feeling the need for behavior like forbidding abortion, gay marriage, trans rights, etc to be justified by people who can give me no justification other than the faith I don't share.

 

[Spirit of Light]

In a perfect world religious people would all participate in a secular system of government where there must be tangible, fact based reasons for law, to better protect the diversity of beliefs within a nation.

We don't live in a perfect world, though, and I end up feeling the need for behavior like forbidding abortion, gay marriage, trans rights, etc to be justified by people who can give me no justification other than the faith I don't share.

Do you think those rules within a religion orginally was meant for non believers? or was the meaning behind those rules meant only for those who chose to follow the religious teaching? But it has become coon for believers to put their religious rules on top of non believers?

 

[SigurdReginson]

Hmmm... Speaking for myself, I usually critique things based on my own experiences and perspectives. Half of my reasoning is not to try and convince anyone of anything, but to give them food for thought. If someone corrects me on my assumptions, it also gives me an opportunity to reconsider the way I think and feel about certain topics.

I'm not so interested in being right, or in trying to tell people what they should do... But if something seems off, I will speak up. I speak up because I respect the person, and I also respect the truth, and myself. I want to see all of those things thrive, and they thrive best when they are tested.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Hmmm... Speaking for myself, I usually critique things based on my own experiences and perspectives. Half of my reasoning is not to try and convince anyone of anything, but to give them food for thought (food for thought). If someone corrects me on my assumptions, it also gives me an opportunity to reconsider the way I think and feel about certain topics.

I'm not so interested in being right, or in trying to tell people what they should do... But if something seems off, I will speak up. I speak up because I respect the person, and I also respect the truth, and myself. I want to see all of those things thrive, and they thrive best when they are tested.

Your approch is in my understanding a healthy way to be critiqual toward those who may believe wrongly, meaning they can say they are belivers from a religion, but clearly do not follow it

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Do you think those rules within a religion orginally was meant for non believers? or was the meaning behind those rules meant only for those who chose to follow the religious teaching? But it has become coon for believers to put their religious rules on top of non believers?

I can't speak to the original writers, I cant even confidently say the people in the scriptures were real. What I can say is that there were religions where forced conversion and proselytizing was forbidden, and those where forced conversion even under penalty of death was the norm, for centuries.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

a critique can be if a person say, this must be wrong practice because it is more harmful than good for the one who practice it. (it is a valied critique because the person is concerned about safety and well being)

It depends on how its said. If the person said their belief is wrong as in their theology, it's not an attack but an opinion probably based on that person's personal experience.

Unfortunately, yes, a person's beliefs can be more harmful than good. I don't believe that's based on personal opinion. People have died because of how people express their beliefs.

Its mostly attacking, if one likes, the christian's behavior and attitude because of the latter's theology not his spirituality and personal relationship with his faith.

A attack is when someone call a person evil because they practice a religion that some people only see as evil.
Not to defent my own belief in Islam, but islam as a whole often, but not always has been accused of being an evil path due to terrorists has used it as a shield. And yes of course those who do evil deeds from within a religion are them self evil. but not nessesary the teaching in it self (wrong practice often lead toward evil deeds)

I actually haven't seen any atheist call believers evil... at least not on RF. I have seen christians tell atheist they are wrong, ignorant, blind, and a few are pretty blunt about the eternal damnation of people's souls.

Christian theology does have bad points in. The bible does have a lot of bad points in it-at least from human standards of morality in regards to life and death. Some people learn from it by calling it god's justice.

How to say this... I think you're blinded by what's literally in scriptures because you interpret them from a positive light even if it says otherwise. But in general, no one should attack a person for their belief system but I don't see anything wrong with challenging the validity of their belief or telling them their theology (not their spiritual connection to it) is wrong because of their personal experience with it.

Also, be mindful, many atheists used to be christian. So, they're not unfamiliar with god or god experiences. A lot of people probably do have awakenings just not attributed to god.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I can't speak to the original writers, I cant even confidently say the people in the scriptures were real. What I can say is that there were religions where forced conversion and proselytizing was forbidden, and those where forced conversion even under penalty of death was the norm, for centuries.

I think i understand what you mean.
And yes to refuse someones belief and force them to convert is of course not a right way to do it. If a religious person wish to give an other person a chance to convert it would be better to use wisdom from once own teaching to do it. and not by egoistic force

 

[Spirit of Light]

It depends on how its said. If the person said their belief is wrong as in their theology, it's not an attack but an opinion probably based on that person's personal experience.

Unfortunately, yes, a person's beliefs can be more harmful than good. I don't believe that's based on personal opinion. People have died because of how people express their beliefs.

Its mostly attacking, if one likes, the christian's behavior and attitude because of the latter's theology not his spirituality and personal relationship with his faith.



I actually haven't seen any atheist call believers evil... at least not on RF. I have seen christians tell atheist they are wrong, ignorant, blind, and a few are pretty blunt about the eternal damnation of people's souls.

Christian theology does have bad points in. The bible does have a lot of bad points in it-at least from human standards of morality in regards to life and death. Some people learn from it by calling it god's justice.

How to say this... I think you're blinded by what's literally in scriptures because you interpret them from a positive light even if it says otherwise. But in general, no one should attack a person for their belief system but I don't see anything wrong with challenging the validity of their belief or telling them their theology (not their spiritual connection to it) is wrong because of their personal experience with it.

Also, be mindful, many atheists used to be christian. So, they're not unfamiliar with god or god experiences. A lot of people probably do have awakenings just not attributed to god.

It is not always the atheist who say bad or call believers evil. it is also happening the other way around yes. and both way would be inccorect (except if a person clearly do evil action toward others)

 

[Spirit of Light]

In this thread i actually learning a lot, and honestly feel nothing wrong in what is said here

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Show me a law that is like a law of GOD in your laws.

Your definition?

I can't list all the laws but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. We are "influenced" by christianity and god-oriented laws.

What is your point?

 

[Yahcubs777]

Your definition?

I can't list all the laws but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. We are "influenced" by christianity and god-oriented laws.

What is your point?

Im asking you to show me how your laws were influenced by the Laws of the GOD of Israel. Just because people say it, doesn't mean its true.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It is not always the atheist who say bad or call believers evil. it is also happening the other way around yes. and both way would be inccorect (except if a person clearly do evil action toward others)

It does. The other way around has more influence on people's lives than atheist to christian.

Have atheist on RF call believers evil (not challenging you to give evidence, just wondering if you've seen that on RF)? I know I'm on here a lot because of classes, but I don't remember seeing that. Come to think of it, when you had your spiritual awakening, a lot of people were helping you and was concerned about what you're following and giving insights and critiques cause they really have some level of care for you.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Im asking you to show me how your laws were influenced by the Laws of the GOD of Israel. Just because people say it, doesn't mean its true.

I said we were influenced by christian theology and (may I add) the politics of the Church.

 

[Yahcubs777]

I said we were influenced by christian theology and (may I add) the politics of the Church.

but really its not true, is my point.

 

[Spirit of Light]

It does. The other way around has more influence on people's lives than atheist to christian.

Have atheist on RF call believers evil (not challenging you to give evidence, just wondering if you've seen that on RF)? I know I'm on here a lot because of classes, but I don't remember seeing that. Come to think of it, when you had your spiritual awakening, a lot of people were helping you and was concerned about what you're following and giving insights and critiques cause they really have some level of care for you.

If you asked me this 6 months ago, i would said definitly a big yes to it, At that time i did feel the heat and to be honest, i did feel it as an atempt of being "evil"

Today i see the one who was wrong was me, i personally did not see the teaching in what others told me, i was blinded by my own ignorance. and if especially non belivers wanted to "correct" me, it made me feel as if i was attacked. as said, I do realize the one who was wrong was my self.

This is also a reason why this OP is not a problem for me to open today, and to respect any answer that may come. I did not open this OP to make bad words about those who in the past critiqued me or a religion.
And i no longer have a "need to critique" those who understand the world and religion different than i do.

Today i am honestly greatful to those who pushed me to open my eyes, so in a way yes it has been an awakening from within me.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

but really its not true, is my point.

You're talking about something different. It is true that christianity has influenced US laws and customs. Our monuments and capitols etc are all glittered in it via our history.

As for what you're talking about, I don't believe god exists. So, when you say god, I think christianity and the bible not how you define it in a spiritual sense--I wouldn't know. I just go off what I read and try to make sense of what people tell me when they talk of god.