Does salvation in Christ scare the Atheist believers?

[firedragon]

Theism and atheism are not religions. They are just terms used to say whether someone believes in a god or not.

Religion is the systematic practice of faith which is manifest through ritual and ceremonies. What rituals and ceremonies does one have to partake in to be an atheist?

The fourth point is incorrect because atheism says nothing about morality. What moral or ethical system does an atheist have to adhere to?

The fifth point is wrong as well. Neither theism nor atheism cause atrocities to happen. There has to be an extra set of religious or ideological beliefs that the person holds that leads to that.

I don't know why you are speaking just about the Bible here. Atheists also speak out about other faiths such as Islam, Judaism, Hinduism and numerous dangerous cults.

Your point that atheist speak out against religion therefore it is a religion makes no sense:

Does a person who speaks out against government have to be a part of a government?
Does a person need to be part of a secret society to speak out against a secret society?
Does someone who speaks out against a terrorist group have top be a terrorist themselves?

One doesn't have to be in the category of something to speak out against it. Atheists speak out against religion for various reasons even. A lot of atheists couldn't care less about religion and don't speak about it.

Who does this? 3 of those are dangerous cults and the second one is more complicated. Are you conflating Theism with Christianity as per that other thread?

So the concept of God made people explore nature. That doesn't mean that the concept is true. Science also cannot conclude that God definitely doesn't exist but just that certain concepts of God are false.

Circular reasoning here. You have to prove that everything was created in the first place before saying that people are observing a created object. Atheists who claim that there definitely is no God are committing the same fallacy that theists do, by jumping to conclusions on a matter that is unexaminable. Certainly the term God is used in the scientific community when contemplating various hypothesis for how the universe began such as Stephen Hawking does in a Brief History of Time. They should rather say that they do not know.

This is a tricky one. I think that all religions were necessary in the evolution of what society calls "morality" in that they established an order of morality that helped civilizations to stabilize and grow. This also begs the question as man has been religious for the majority of history. Religion is a natural step in man's social evolution so there wouldn't have been a time when man would have developed the moral code without religion. Judeo-Christian values certainly aren't necessary for a morality as we have had Confusionism, Jainism, Islam and many other religions that established a working morality. Humans are social creatures and all social creatures have a natural morality which makes them social in the first place and humans have genetic and psychological traits that govern certain actions that humans call moral and others that are provided through reason. But because of tribalism morality develops differently and this causes conflict.

you focus ion communism. What about Secular Humanism? You are also ignoring atheists who fight for peoples rights and would be against the atrocities of the USSR? Why are you cherry picking here?

Why are you so focused on Christianity here? Atheists also speak out against Islam and Hinduism and cults. In fact many atheists who are against Islam say that Christianity is OK and that we can live with it but that Islam is the main problem at its core. Also most of the atheist I have heard of who are against Christiainty are the ones in America where there are a lot of ignorant Christians who are bigots who want to take over government. In the Middle East most atheists are against Islam. In Russia, which was Russian Orthodox under the Tzar, atheists were against Christianity because it was the main religion. In India they are against Hinduism. It seems to be more about what religion is dominant in which region rather than attacking Christianity all over the world.

And again atheism is not a religion.

I dont agree with you on some points, but I agree with you on some other points. I mean in this same post. Yet, I honestly admire your manner of putting it and your thoughts no matter what.

I have a question for you. Do you think religion means "belief in a God"? Or in fact, let me put it this way. Do you think religion means "theism"?

 

[viole]

Anyhow, if you think I believe in Jesus because I somehow dont like Islam because of Allah's hell, you are wrong.

Well, then you are wrong to believe we do not believe in Jesus because we are afraid we could be wrong.

I do not believe in God for the simple, easy, trivial, obvious reason that He has the same evidence of Mother Goose, Allah, Zeus, Batman, Apollo, the great Juju at the bottom of the sea, homeopathy, spirits, etc. And for that reason, I have no logical reason to believe one of those in the list and not the others.

Very simple. No complicated reason like "I am afraid of Jesus salvation plan", or "flying horses taking off to heaven", or other funny fantasy tenets that any of the above mentioned beliefs might have.

Ciao

- viole

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Anyhow, your own religious description of "Gnostic Atheist" is queer.
It means that you are a hidden atheist.
or that you have hidden knowledge as an atheist.
What is that?

You keep telling people what they believe. Is this your hobby or something?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I read a lot of posts where Atheists claim Atheism is:

1. Not a religion

2. Not opposing to any Religion,

3. Simply not believing that there is a Creator.

4. Atheism has moral values.

5. Atheism never committed the atrocities Religion did.

I then went and thought about their claims, and found, from my point of view that the atheist:

Either are-

Scared that someone finds them too light in substance, about their claims,

Or-

They are scared that they are proven wrong, and the possibility that God really does exist.

If Atheism was not a religion, why would Atheists continuously preach to the Christian that the Christian is wrong in their belief? I think there is only one reason, they want to gain fellow Atheists.

It is not the he exact same as being a disciple for Atheism.

If they claim that they are not opposing any religion( because you can not oppose something that does not exist), why do they:

Tell the Christian that their God is the same as “Fairies at the end of the garden”, or “Santa” and so on? Why do they take soooo much effort to try to show contradictions, absurdities, and errors in the Bible, if these so called errors were debunked over hundreds of years, but is continuously dug up to the unsuspected listener? Why would the Atheist attempt to place the belief in Jesus’ salvation in the same category as Islamic terrorism, Catholic Crusades, Jonestown and Wayco? Is this not deceptive?

Why would Atheists somehow claim that there is no place for God in the Universe, because of what science today knows, when the exact opposite is true that what was written in the Bible 4000 years ago, actually assisted science to understand how the Universe came into existence?

Why does the Atheist claim that there is no God, and uses observable science to claim no Creator, when all they are doing is observing the created object, hoping to see the creator in it?

Is this not foolish?

Why would the Atheist demand that they have some moral code in their conscience, and there is no need for the Judeo-Christian values, or that if there was never any religion, Man would still have been a moral being; when the opposite is true, and their claim a lie?

For example, whilst it is true that many atrocities were committed in the Name of God, it is untrue that such offences were instructed by the Moral code of Jesus, and those offenders will be held accountable for their deeds! However, when we find in the 19th century where the Christian religion was removed in mainly “Communist countries”, it was the brainchild of the Atheist, and the breeding ground of Atheism, and the monument to Atheism which accounted for more than 100 million deaths! It was in this utopia of a Godless political carnival where Atheists were able to murder, torture, exile, and enslave anyone who were against the state, and the religion in Jesus was the worst offence to be punished.

Well, in my opinion, it seems as if the Atheist is scared of the salvation of Jesus, and needs to influence as many others they can. I find the Atheist to be on his heels, ready to attack if he should just catch a “whimph” of criticism against his Religion.

What do you as a non-Atheist think, Do you also find that Atheists are scared of the Gospel in Jesus Christ?

'Atheist' only requires capitalisation if it is at the beginning of a sentence.
And no, I'm not scared.

 

[TheKyle]

I find the possibility of god existing as equitable as that of Zeus existing. I'm just wondering when christianity will reach the understanding of mythology that is apparent with any religion.

 

[Rival]

I find the possibility of god existing as equitable as that of Zeus existing. I'm just wondering when christianity will reach the understanding of mythology that is apparent with any religion.

And yet you identify as a Pagan.

 

[TheKyle]

And yet you identify as a Pagan.

Yet catholics and baptists spend their Sunday social gatherings trashing one another.

 

[Rival]

Yet catholics and baptists spend their Sunday social gatherings trashing one another.

This has nothing to do with what I said.

If you have no 'God' or 'Gods' concept, I'm unsure why you call yourself a Pagan.

 

[TheKyle]

This has nothing to do with what I said.

If you have no 'God' or 'Gods' concept, I'm unsure why you call yourself a Pagan.

What makes you think being pagan means one must associate with a deity?

 

[Rival]

What makes you think being pagan means one must associate with a deity?

You're on a religious discussion forum and it asks for your religion. On here most folks are going to assume if you put Pagan, you mean you identify with non-Christian/non-Abrahamic religious practices. We're justified in questioning your label if it seems odd.

 

[TheKyle]

You're on a religious discussion forum and it asks for your religion. On here most folks are going to assume if you put Pagan, you mean you identify with non-Christian/non-Abrahamic religious practices. We're justified in questioning your label if it seems odd.

Actually, what you did was question how I practice my paganism.

 

[Rival]

Actually, what you did was question how I practice my paganism.

Yes, I did. If you have no Gods, what exactly are you practicing?

 

[Samael_Khan]

I dont agree with you on some points, but I agree with you on some other points. I mean in this same post. Yet, I honestly admire your manner of putting it and your thoughts no matter what.

Feeling is mutual

I have a question for you. Do you think religion means "belief in a God"? Or in fact, let me put it this way. Do you think religion means "theism"?

No. Religion is separate to theism. So a person can believe in God/s and not have a religion attached to it. So a theist doesn't have to have ritual, religious scripture or other formal or informal beliefs in addition to their belief in God/s. So religion doesn't mean belief in God/s.

There are atheistic religions such as certain forms of Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, etc, in which people follow the rituals and practices but do not believe in a creator.

 

[oldbadger]

Well, in my opinion, it seems as if the Atheist is scared of the salvation of Jesus, and needs to influence as many others they can. I find the Atheist to be on his heels, ready to attack if he should just catch a “whimph” of criticism against his Religion.

What do you as a non-Atheist think, Do you also find that Atheists are scared of the Gospel in Jesus Christ?

Don't know about atheists but as a Deist I can tell you that Christians would only scare me if they ever managed to rule my country as a theocracy or theonomy. That would be very scary!
It's amazing how Christians deny the laws of Moses one minute and then clutch to their chosen ones the next.
And I am amazed at the mber of Christians who want Capital punishment for various OT offences.

Yeah
.... That would scare me here on Earth.

 

[exchemist]

Then why vehemently try to prove that point?
Go through many threads and see how atheists(some, not all of them, but most) tries to discredit the Bible, Jesus and the Christian.
And all I asked is why they do that?
Are they doing it to find more proselytes?
Or is it fear?
All I did was to ask the Question.

I'm not sure I believe you. It's a loaded question and one I suspect is designed to goad atheists.

There is a tedious, modern psychobabble trick of insinuating that the reason someone does not accept something is because of psychological factors in them as individuals, rather than taking their position at face value and arguing it rationally on its merits. It is patronising and demeaning.

Considering that the adherents of many faiths like to share it with others and hope to convert them, could it not be that some atheists feel the need to dissuade people from what they regard as harmful nonsense? It is, after all, pretty common for people to try to convince others of their point of view, isn't it?

 

[Twilight Hue]

I read a lot of posts where Atheists claim Atheism is:

1. Not a religion

2. Not opposing to any Religion,

3. Simply not believing that there is a Creator.

4. Atheism has moral values.

5. Atheism never committed the atrocities Religion did.

I then went and thought about their claims, and found, from my point of view that the atheist:

Either are-

Scared that someone finds them too light in substance, about their claims,

Or-

They are scared that they are proven wrong, and the possibility that God really does exist.

If Atheism was not a religion, why would Atheists continuously preach to the Christian that the Christian is wrong in their belief? I think there is only one reason, they want to gain fellow Atheists.

It is not the he exact same as being a disciple for Atheism.

If they claim that they are not opposing any religion( because you can not oppose something that does not exist), why do they:

Tell the Christian that their God is the same as “Fairies at the end of the garden”, or “Santa” and so on? Why do they take soooo much effort to try to show contradictions, absurdities, and errors in the Bible, if these so called errors were debunked over hundreds of years, but is continuously dug up to the unsuspected listener? Why would the Atheist attempt to place the belief in Jesus’ salvation in the same category as Islamic terrorism, Catholic Crusades, Jonestown and Wayco? Is this not deceptive?

Why would Atheists somehow claim that there is no place for God in the Universe, because of what science today knows, when the exact opposite is true that what was written in the Bible 4000 years ago, actually assisted science to understand how the Universe came into existence?

Why does the Atheist claim that there is no God, and uses observable science to claim no Creator, when all they are doing is observing the created object, hoping to see the creator in it?

Is this not foolish?

Why would the Atheist demand that they have some moral code in their conscience, and there is no need for the Judeo-Christian values, or that if there was never any religion, Man would still have been a moral being; when the opposite is true, and their claim a lie?

For example, whilst it is true that many atrocities were committed in the Name of God, it is untrue that such offences were instructed by the Moral code of Jesus, and those offenders will be held accountable for their deeds! However, when we find in the 19th century where the Christian religion was removed in mainly “Communist countries”, it was the brainchild of the Atheist, and the breeding ground of Atheism, and the monument to Atheism which accounted for more than 100 million deaths! It was in this utopia of a Godless political carnival where Atheists were able to murder, torture, exile, and enslave anyone who were against the state, and the religion in Jesus was the worst offence to be punished.

Well, in my opinion, it seems as if the Atheist is scared of the salvation of Jesus, and needs to influence as many others they can. I find the Atheist to be on his heels, ready to attack if he should just catch a “whimph” of criticism against his Religion.

What do you as a non-Atheist think, Do you also find that Atheists are scared of the Gospel in Jesus Christ?

No. Atheism as a definition cannot precede Christianity since the term is a response to the claim of a God.

However no one believed in any God at the start.

The concept of theism clearly came afterwards. It dosent even work or make a lick of sense the other way around. To think that such concepts like Jesus or salvation or anything of the sort is somehow frightening for an atheist is rather laughable.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

The moment we solve the riddle "which was first .. the chicken or the egg", we might know whether the Creator is in the Creation or not
@stvdvRF

But we do know which of the chicken and the egg came first -- evolution tells us all we need to know.

Something "almost-chicken" laid an egg with just enough genetic variation in the germ to produce a chicken. Therefore, the egg came first.

 

[Twilight Hue]

This is where I return to the Biblical explanation and information to understand who was first.
The Bible is very clear:
In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth!
Before God there was nothing.
There was no Heaven, and Earth before God.
Through the Word of God (Jesus) everything was made, and without Him, nothing came into existence.

Therefore, God created the Chicken, male and female He created them and said:
"Be fruitfull and multiply"

I'm pretty sure the Bible/Torah came first before any of those notions came forth.

 

[firedragon]

Feeling is mutual

No. Religion is separate to theism. So a person can believe in God/s and not have a religion attached to it. So a theist doesn't have to have ritual, religious scripture or other formal or informal beliefs in addition to their belief in God/s. So religion doesn't mean belief in God/s.

There are atheistic religions such as certain forms of Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, etc, in which people follow the rituals and practices but do not believe in a creator.

What about the roman soldiers who were religious or were identified as religious but purely because of their affinity to the Roman Empire? No theism. buddhism or any philosophy involved!

 

[nPeace]

I read a lot of posts where Atheists claim Atheism is:

1. Not a religion

2. Not opposing to any Religion,

3. Simply not believing that there is a Creator.

4. Atheism has moral values.

5. Atheism never committed the atrocities Religion did.

I then went and thought about their claims, and found, from my point of view that the atheist:

Either are-

Scared that someone finds them too light in substance, about their claims,

Or-

They are scared that they are proven wrong, and the possibility that God really does exist.

If Atheism was not a religion, why would Atheists continuously preach to the Christian that the Christian is wrong in their belief? I think there is only one reason, they want to gain fellow Atheists.

It is not the he exact same as being a disciple for Atheism.

If they claim that they are not opposing any religion( because you can not oppose something that does not exist), why do they:

Tell the Christian that their God is the same as “Fairies at the end of the garden”, or “Santa” and so on? Why do they take soooo much effort to try to show contradictions, absurdities, and errors in the Bible, if these so called errors were debunked over hundreds of years, but is continuously dug up to the unsuspected listener? Why would the Atheist attempt to place the belief in Jesus’ salvation in the same category as Islamic terrorism, Catholic Crusades, Jonestown and Wayco? Is this not deceptive?

Why would Atheists somehow claim that there is no place for God in the Universe, because of what science today knows, when the exact opposite is true that what was written in the Bible 4000 years ago, actually assisted science to understand how the Universe came into existence?

Why does the Atheist claim that there is no God, and uses observable science to claim no Creator, when all they are doing is observing the created object, hoping to see the creator in it?

Is this not foolish?

Why would the Atheist demand that they have some moral code in their conscience, and there is no need for the Judeo-Christian values, or that if there was never any religion, Man would still have been a moral being; when the opposite is true, and their claim a lie?

For example, whilst it is true that many atrocities were committed in the Name of God, it is untrue that such offences were instructed by the Moral code of Jesus, and those offenders will be held accountable for their deeds! However, when we find in the 19th century where the Christian religion was removed in mainly “Communist countries”, it was the brainchild of the Atheist, and the breeding ground of Atheism, and the monument to Atheism which accounted for more than 100 million deaths! It was in this utopia of a Godless political carnival where Atheists were able to murder, torture, exile, and enslave anyone who were against the state, and the religion in Jesus was the worst offence to be punished.

Well, in my opinion, it seems as if the Atheist is scared of the salvation of Jesus, and needs to influence as many others they can. I find the Atheist to be on his heels, ready to attack if he should just catch a “whimph” of criticism against his Religion.

What do you as a non-Atheist think, Do you also find that Atheists are scared of the Gospel in Jesus Christ?

I think Atheist for the most part have made the choice to "be their own God". Simply put, join the ultimate rebel against God, because of wanting "their own freedom", to do whatever they want.

I think when some do realize how pointless that life is, they seek God, but because of the fact that religion has failed society, some of those individuals resign themselves to Atheism or Agnosticism.

However, some find a religion they feel they can bond with.
When that fails them, they just decide to be non-religious, but "spiritual".

I think though, you are referring to die hard Atheist. These as I said earlier, for the most part hate God, and his authority. They want their own rules.
Salvation of Christ don't appeal to them because it does not come with freedom from authority... at least individual authority.