What does Jehovah rightly expect of His worshippers?

[Samael_Khan]

Jehovah has only one name sir, although He has many titles

Name can also just refer to reputation and not an actual name.

 

[capumetu]

My point is regarding the incertion of the vowels of Adonai into the divine name making it another word. I am not talking about Adonai being use on its own but how the name eventually transliterated as Jehovah came about.

Again Adonai has nothing to do with Jehovah, in English Adonai is translated Lord. YHWH is translated Jehovah in Engilsh.

So therefore his actual name has not been made known throughout the earth, just a bastardisation of it.

Your interpretation of Isaiah 60:22 has nothing to do with the technical implications of how the name was adjusted.

Jehovah's witnesses have grown significantly worldwide, leading me to believe that in the gathering of His people during the last days (Isa 2:2,3) He has sped it up considerably. One can easily see that He does not reject that name. Worldwide it is the most used name for God, of course it varies in other languages.

 

[capumetu]

Name can also just refer to reputation and not an actual name.

Nonetheless, Jehovah has but one name occuring 6973 times if I remember correctly in the Hebrew Scriptures, The New world translation also uses Jehovah in the Greek Scriptures when it quoted a Hebrew verse such as at Mat 4:10. We do not believe Jesus would alter a verse when he was quoting it, likely you would agree.

 

[metis]

Jehovah has only one name sir, although He has many titles

False, because of the characteristics of "YHWH" in Hebrew doesn't match with "Jehovah" on the pronunciation basis, plus we do not know exactly which vowels go with YHWH because they ain't there in the oldest texts.

On top of this, didn't you actually read the link I provided you? Apparently not, as different names for God are right there in plain old black & white.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Again Adonai has nothing to do with Jehovah, in English Adonai is translated Lord. YHWH is translated Jehovah in Engilsh.

Seems like you haven't investigated how the word Jehovah originated.

Jehovah - Wikipedia

"Most scholars believe "Jehovah" (also transliterated as "Yehowah"[8]) to be a hybrid form derived by combining the Latin letters JHVH with the vowels of Adonai. "

The word transliterated as Jehovah is definitely a hybrid word. The vowels were inserted into the tetragrammaton which makes the name a different word.

Jehovah's witnesses have grown significantly worldwide, leading me to believe that in the gathering of His people during the last days (Isa 2:2,3) He has sped it up considerably. One can easily see that He does not reject that name. Worldwide it is the most used name for God, of course it varies in other languages.

Whether JW's have grown significantly worldwide is dependent on what one thinks significantly means. What were JW growth statistics last year? If we go according to group growth of the groups that were formed around the same time as the JW's then we have:

JW's - 8 000 000

Church of Latter Day Saints - 16 000 000

how many mormons are there in the world - Google Search

Seventh Day Adventists - 18.7 000 000

All Your Questions About Seventh-Day Adventism And Ben Carson Answered.

Thos two groups have grown double to what JW's have. If what convinces you is group growth then you should be supporting at least Seventh Day Adventists even more so than JW's.

Either that or group growth has absolutely nothing to do with whether a group is the true religion or not.

I am not concerned with what the most used name for God is. I am more concerned with whether the present name is equivalent to the original name.

 

[capumetu]

False, because of the characteristics of "YHWH" in Hebrew doesn't match with "Jehovah" on the pronunciation basis, plus we do not know exactly which vowels go with YHWH because they ain't there in the oldest texts.

On top of this, didn't you actually read the link I provided you? Apparently not, as different names for God are right there in plain old black & white.

Wonder why all translators of the Divine name in English render it Jehovah? As I stated, with the expansion of His people, and the good news being declared earth wide, evidence shows He accepts the English rendering of His name.

 

[capumetu]

Seems like you haven't investigated how the word Jehovah originated.

Jehovah - Wikipedia

"Most scholars believe "Jehovah" (also transliterated as "Yehowah"[8]) to be a hybrid form derived by combining the Latin letters JHVH with the vowels of Adonai. "

The word transliterated as Jehovah is definitely a hybrid word. The vowels were inserted into the tetragrammaton which makes the name a different word.




Whether JW's have grown significantly worldwide is dependent on what one thinks significantly means. What were JW growth statistics last year? If we go according to group growth of the groups that were formed around the same time as the JW's then we have:

JW's - 8 000 000

Church of Latter Day Saints - 16 000 000

how many mormons are there in the world - Google Search

Seventh Day Adventists - 18.7 000 000

All Your Questions About Seventh-Day Adventism And Ben Carson Answered.

Thos two groups have grown double to what JW's have. If what convinces you is group growth then you should be supporting at least Seventh Day Adventists even more so than JW's.

Either that or group growth has absolutely nothing to do with whether a group is the true religion or not.

I am not concerned with what the most used name for God is. I am more concerned with whether the present name is equivalent to the original name.

The Bible identifies the path sir, each of us must choose which path we will follow. Every faith has some truth, no faith has absolute truth, so you have many to choose from. Jesus stated very clearly that few would be his followers, the point I was making was that while the vast majority of faiths are falling in attendance, we are growing.

The point trying to be established is, does Jehovah accept the name Jehovah or not? Very relevant as it is impossible to get to know someone fully, or develop a close bond with someone in whom you are ignorant of their name. Calling on God's name is so important it is a requirement for salvation Rom 10:13

 

[Samael_Khan]

The Bible identifies the path sir, each of us must choose which path we will follow. Every faith has some truth, no faith has absolute truth, so you have many to choose from. Jesus stated very clearly that few would be his followers, the point I was making was that while the vast majority of faiths are falling in attendance, we are growing.

You mentioned "Jehovah's witnesses have grown significantly worldwide,", not attendence. There are a lot of religions where attendence is irrelevent. You used this claim to say that "leading me to believe that in the gathering of His people during the last days (Isa 2:2,3) He has sped it up considerably." If this is the criteria you are going on, then that makes Islam probably the religion where God is gathering his people. Also, I don't think you should factor in attendence, because since the Covid 19 crisis, many JW populations haven't been gathering together, so attendence isn't a good measure. Also it seems like your groups numbers are decreasing in annual growth.

The point trying to be established is, does Jehovah accept the name Jehovah or not? Very relevant as it is impossible to get to know someone fully, or develop a close bond with someone in whom you are ignorant of their name. Calling on God's name is so important it is a requirement for salvation Rom 10:13

Well, considering that God is a father figure and followers are considered his children, and we as children culturally do not use our parents names do develop a bond with them, which is the closest bond that one can have, it seems obvious that knowing his name is irrelevent to building a relationship with him. In fact, in reality when we use our parents first names when addressing them it is seen as a sign of disrespect and that it is evidence that we do not have a bond with our parents, so referring to the heavenly father by his name would be rather disrespectful. Notice, even though Jesus says that he made his Fathers name known, he referred to God as "father" and not by his name, because that showed how close their relationship was.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What do you do to try to live up to them?

Trying to figure out what God wants of humanity before establishing that he even exists at all seems to be putting the cart before the horse, IMO.

 

[metis]

Wonder why all translators of the Divine name in English render it Jehovah?

They don't. Again: Names of God in Christianity - Wikipedia. Note that "Jehovah" is not mentioned.

As I stated, with the expansion of His people, and the good news being declared earth wide, evidence shows He accepts the English rendering of His name.

So, just saying the name just one politically-correct way is magic?

 

[capumetu]

You mentioned "Jehovah's witnesses have grown significantly worldwide,", not attendence. There are a lot of religions where attendence is irrelevent. You used this claim to say that "leading me to believe that in the gathering of His people during the last days (Isa 2:2,3) He has sped it up considerably." If this is the criteria you are going on, then that makes Islam probably the religion where God is gathering his people. Also, I don't think you should factor in attendence, because since the Covid 19 crisis, many JW populations haven't been gathering together, so attendence isn't a good measure. Also it seems like your groups numbers are decreasing in annual growth.

Well, considering that God is a father figure and followers are considered his children, and we as children culturally do not use our parents names do develop a bond with them, which is the closest bond that one can have, it seems obvious that knowing his name is irrelevent to building a relationship with him. In fact, in reality when we use our parents first names when addressing them it is seen as a sign of disrespect and that it is evidence that we do not have a bond with our parents, so referring to the heavenly father by his name would be rather disrespectful. Notice, even though Jesus says that he made his Fathers name known, he referred to God as "father" and not by his name, because that showed how close their relationship was.

Isa 2:2-4 is speaking of Jehovah gathering His people in the last days. Ps 60:22 is referring to His speeding it up. So whoever God's people are, this should be able to be observed. It is true that last year we had a loss. And although you are incorrect about our attendance during the pandemic, likely that was a contributing factor of the 6/10s of a percent loss. Perhaps even counting errors because of it.

The growth of God's people is but one of the identifying factors Jehovah provides to identify His people sir, the foremost being the exclusive worship of Him as their God.

Jesus made the name known, and used it frequently obviously, even pointing out the consequences of using His name in vein. Jehovah desires His name declared throughout the whole earth Ex 9:16, obviously His people will do that.

 

[capumetu]

Trying to figure out what God wants of humanity before establishing that he even exists at all seems to be putting the cart before the horse, IMO.

No doubt.

 

[capumetu]

They don't. Again: Names of God in Christianity - Wikipedia. Note that "Jehovah" is not mentioned.

So, just saying the name just one politically-correct way is magic?

Show one or more English translations which render the Divine Name in English that don't Metis. Know why you are not able to?

 

[metis]

Show one or more English translations which render the Divine Name in English that don't Metis. Know why you are not able to?

Don't what?

Again, you keep missing the point, as what you are really doing is just blindly believing what the Governing Body teaches you. I've post facts about the use of God's various names, but you simply ignore them and then just regurgitate the same error. There are numerous names for "God" in the Hebrew scriptures, but "Jehovah" is not one of them. The Most Holy Name is "YHWH", which in not pronounced "Jehovah".

However, with that being said, it really doesn't make one iota of difference to me which name you choose to call God by because that's political-correctness gone berserk, imo. It's not a magical word, iow.

Instead of just blindly believing in the GB, maybe do some research on your own, and I linked you to a source that can help you do that.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Isa 2:2-4 is speaking of Jehovah gathering His people in the last days. Ps 60:22 is referring to His speeding it up. So whoever God's people are, this should be able to be observed. It is true that last year we had a loss. And although you are incorrect about our attendance during the pandemic, likely that was a contributing factor of the 6/10s of a percent loss. Perhaps even counting errors because of it.

Have you guys been increasing in conversion rate over the years or decreasing gradually in growth? Also, what is meant by "speeding it up" as that doesn't say much? Over here in South Africa the JW organisation cancelled meetings and preaching because of the pandemic so I assumed that that was a standard practice throughout all the countries where there was lockdown and a high pandemic rate.

The growth of God's people is but one of the identifying factors Jehovah provides to identify His people sir, the foremost being the exclusive worship of Him as their God.

Then you shouldn't solely state growth as convincing evidence when there is more to it.

Jesus made the name known, and used it frequently obviously, even pointing out the consequences of using His name in vein. Jehovah desires His name declared throughout the whole earth Ex 9:16, obviously His people will do that.

Part of what I was responding to you was this statement you made

" Very relevant as it is impossible to get to know someone fully, or develop a close bond with someone in whom you are ignorant of their name"

You said it is impossible to develop a close bond with someone if you do not know their name. I showed you that the closest bonds we have involve people whose names are irrelevant to us and using that name shows disrespect.

There is no evidence at all that Jesus used the divine name, so we can just relegate the idea of "making his name known" to meaning "make his reputation known". Especially since the original name doesn't exist anymore and the current one is a transliteration of a hybrid name. So you would not even be making his actual name known.

 

[capumetu]

Have you guys been increasing in conversion rate over the years or decreasing gradually in growth? Also, what is meant by "speeding it up" as that doesn't say much? Over here in South Africa the JW organisation cancelled meetings and preaching because of the pandemic so I assumed that that was a standard practice throughout all the countries where there was lockdown and a high pandemic rate.


Then you shouldn't solely state growth as convincing evidence when there is more to it.

Part of what I was responding to you was this statement you made

" Very relevant as it is impossible to get to know someone fully, or develop a close bond with someone in whom you are ignorant of their name"

You said it is impossible to develop a close bond with someone if you do not know their name. I showed you that the closest bonds we have involve people whose names are irrelevant to us and using that name shows disrespect.

There is no evidence at all that Jesus used the divine name, so we can just relegate the idea of "making his name known" to meaning "make his reputation known". Especially since the original name doesn't exist anymore and the current one is a transliteration of a hybrid name. So you would not even be making his actual name known.

I have posted how to identify the faith sir. Our meetings have not been cancelled, to my surprise we haven't had to miss one meeting with the pandemic breakout. I would assume it is the same in Africa.

Simple, how many close friends do you have that you do not know their names?

Jesus made His name know, Jesus' disciples make His name known.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I have posted how to identify the faith sir. Our meetings have not been cancelled, to my surprise we haven't had to miss one meeting with the pandemic breakout. I would assume it is the same in Africa.

It isn't. Large gatherings were cancelled for a period because of lockdown so JW's couldn't gather. Church services were cancelled for a couple of months which includes JW meetings. JW's also aren't participating in field service because of the risk. Haven't seen them around in a year.

Simple, how many close friends do you have that you do not know their names?

God is a father figure. I don't call my father by his name. Since Christians are to be God's children, then it would be an insult to call him by his name.

Jesus made His name know, Jesus' disciples make His name known.

Where in the NT does Jesus or his disciples use God's name?

 

[capumetu]

It isn't. Large gatherings were cancelled for a period because of lockdown so JW's couldn't gather. Church services were cancelled for a couple of months which includes JW meetings. JW's also aren't participating in field service because of the risk. Haven't seen them around in a year.

God is a father figure. I don't call my father by his name. Since Christians are to be God's children, then it would be an insult to call him by his name.

Where in the NT does Jesus or his disciples use God's name?

We are witnessing by letter and phone, and as you see here by internet. We use zoom for our meetings, as may be the case there.

Your translators left God's name out of their versions in the New Testament sir, the New World Translation does not alter the verses, restoring it to it's locations in the Greek Scriptures. A great example can be found at Mat 4:10 which was "written" at Deut 6:13. We do not believe Jesus would have changed Jehovah's name to Lord, rather would have quoted the verse as written fully using the Divine name to satan.

We make Jehovah's name known as you are aware. Rom 10:14,15 as you are aware in verse 13, calling on Jehovah's name is a requirement for salvation sir. Only by using God's name in vein as Jesus stated would it become an insult to Him.

 

[Samael_Khan]

We are witnessing by letter and phone, and as you see here by internet. We use zoom for our meetings, as may be the case there.

So no field service then. I am referring to meetings in the concept of "gathering together" physically.

Your translators left God's name out of their versions in the New Testament sir, the New World Translation does not alter the verses, restoring it to it's locations in the Greek Scriptures. A great example can be found at Mat 4:10 which was "written" at Deut 6:13. We do not believe Jesus would have changed Jehovah's name to Lord, rather would have quoted the verse as written fully using the Divine name to satan.

Show me in the NT scriptures where the divine name is actually written. I am not concerned with how you interpret what the text should say, but what evidence shows that the text actually says. The actual NT manuscripts do not have the divine name as per Jewish tradition. That evidence points to Jesus sticking with that tradition. The NWT is not faithfully translating the NT manuscripts correctly but assuming that writers included the divine name as per the OT Hebrew manuscripts which there is no evidence of.

We make Jehovah's name known as you are aware. Rom 10:14,15 as you are aware in verse 13, calling on Jehovah's name is a requirement for salvation sir. Only by using God's name in vein as Jesus stated would it become an insult to Him.

As I said, "name" can refer to just reputation.

Here is an interesting test to see whether the early Christians who wrote the NT texts used the divine name or not. You are assuming that the divine name is included in the NT where they translated OT texts with the divine name in it. Why is it that they did NOT use the divine name even when not quoting the OT if God's name was so important to them? They never used the Divine name even in their everyday reference to God.

 

[capumetu]

So no field service then. I am referring to meetings in the concept of "gathering together" physically.

Show me in the NT scriptures where the divine name is actually written. I am not concerned with how you interpret what the text should say, but what evidence shows that the text actually says. The actual NT manuscripts do not have the divine name as per Jewish tradition. That evidence points to Jesus sticking with that tradition. The NWT is not faithfully translating the NT manuscripts correctly but assuming that writers included the divine name as per the OT Hebrew manuscripts which there is no evidence of.

As I said, "name" can refer to just reputation.

Here is an interesting test to see whether the early Christians who wrote the NT texts used the divine name or not. You are assuming that the divine name is included in the NT where they translated OT texts with the divine name in it. Why is it that they did NOT use the divine name even when not quoting the OT if God's name was so important to them? They never used the Divine name even in their everyday reference to God.[/QUOTE

I did, Mat 4:10, we say Jesus did not alter the passage. The original writings do not exist sir. The so called NT was written by Jesus' disciples, not the Jews who had no say in the matter, therefore their tradition is irrelevant.

The Kingdom had already been taken from them sir by the writings of the NT had began. They were so disgusting in Jehovah's site that before the writings were complete, Jehovah had Jerusalem destroyed.