War, the final battle.

[TagliatelliMonster]

I do not focus on the bad, i see it and accept that is how the world have become,

"have become", meaning you think it was better in the past?

Tell me, if you could freely choose any geographic location in any era of the past where you could go and live your life, which would you choose?

Once you answered that, let's ask the question again but with a twist: same question, only this time you don't know in advance what your gender, sexual orientation or ethnicity is going to be. That will only be revealed to you once you are transported to the location and time of your choosing. Does this twist alter your answer?

So i use Islamic teaching to make the world a better place.

Interesting. So how exactly do you do that?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I do wrong every day, not being better than others. The difference is that I practice spiritual teaching to awaken to my own fault, and trying to do something about it.

I did not speak of other and what they should or should not do. All i did was tellingvhow i see it

You DID speak of others as your statements about how "you see things" WERE statements about others.

You spoke of the "spiritual state of people" in the world and how "it's not looking good".
That is a statement about people.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Look like you can not understand anything i try to tell you, sad

I'm trying to understand by asking questions.

The problem is that your answers merely confuse matters even more.

Has it occurred to you that the problem here is not my understanding, but your way of expressing it?

 

[Spirit of Light]

"have become", meaning you think it was better in the past?

Tell me, if you could freely choose any geographic location in any era of the past where you could go and live your life, which would you choose?

Once you answered that, let's ask the question again but with a twist: same question, only this time you don't know in advance what your gender, sexual orientation or ethnicity is going to be. That will only be revealed to you once you are transported to the location and time of your choosing. Does this twist alter your answer?




Interesting. So how exactly do you do that?

Location does not matter.
Spreading the good teaching of Allah is the way to make the world better ( my personal view)

If you or others disagree that is totally ok for me.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I'm trying to understand by asking questions.

The problem is that your answers merely confuse matters even more.

Has it occurred to you that the problem here is not my understanding, but your way of expressing it?

I discuss my issue with my teacher

 

[Aupmanyav]

Don't you all work from 6am until 10am, and 3pm until 7pm? At least you could avoid the worst of the heat. The Spanish are quite bright about that.

The Office or shop workers can't manage that. Transport takes time and is costly. So, once you are in office, you leave only when the duty is over (currently and generally 48 to 40 hours a week, and people will remain at their place of work from 6 am to 7 pm - 13 hours)? Add two hours for transport, many people come from far off places to metropolitan cities, that makes it 15 hours. That does not help. It can happen only in small cities.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Allah is most forgiving to those who following His teaching.

That's a contradiction in terms.

It's like saying that the judge forgives those people who follow the law.
People who follow the law, don't require forgiveness off course.
It's the others that do. And in islamic theory, Allah burns them. He doesn't forgive them.

Only your action words and thoughts can send you to heaven or hell.

Can a non-muslim get to islamic heaven?
If the answer is "no", then your statement is incorrect. Then your actions and thoughts are irrelevant. Instead, what matters is what you believe (on bad evidence).

If the answer is "yes", then islam doesn't really matter it seems to me. Then what matters are ethical standards and living upto those standards in behavior. ie, being a good person.

If we do as Allah ask of us heaven awaits us

Just like if we do what the laws asks of us, then we won't be put in jail.

, if er dont care and follow our ego we can end in hell yes

If we don't care about the law and simply do as we please, we end up in jail.

There's no forgiveness here. Only obedience.

 

[Aupmanyav]

There have been many saints and teachers in India, all of them were just as sinless (we do not have the concept of being born in sin as with the Christians) and made no grandiose claims of being this or that. That is considered a sign of ego in Hinduism. And Jehovah is not the God for Hindus. We have hundreds of Gods and Goddesses and satisfied with them. Why do you think that every should think only in the way you think?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If an Atheist live a very morally right life (according to scripture)

The bolded part, is problematic in that statement.

Why would non-muslims follow islamic rules?

Is praying 5 times a day towards mecca considerd a "moral practice"?
Is somebody "immoral" if one doesn't do that?


Having said that, something is moral or immoral according to moral standards of ethics. Not according to whatever scripture or book. Morality pertains to the well-being of sentient creatures, not to mere obedience of a perceived authority.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Tell me, if you could freely choose any geographic location in any era of the past where you could go and live your life, which would you choose?

I would love to live in Arabia in Mohammad's time. All loot (Mal-e-ghanimat, gift of Allah), money, sheep and goats, gold and silver, women, and men and children which my right hand possesses as my slaves, no problem about beating my wives, four legally allowed apart from the slave women (which my right hand possesses), except for the obligatory 20% to Allah through his messenger. Those were the times.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Well of course. There have been 5 mass extinction events so far. I see no reason to doubt there will be another at some point.

There's actually quite some data to suggest that the 6th wave has already begun, thanks to human activity. Climate change on the one hand (which already displacing and destroying plenty of habitats and in doing so pushing many species to extinction) and on the other hand good ol' pollution and general destruction of the environment (like what is happening in the amazon with deforestation).

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

33 major sins in islam
4. Not performing the prayers (Quran, 19: 59)

There you go.
Just like I said in that post where I commented on your statement concerning if atheists can get to heaven.

You said "yes, if they live morally (according to scripture)".

And here you flat out admit that not doing the islamic prayers is a "grave sin".


So really, your statement was dishonest. Or at least misleading.
The correct way to put it thus is "yes, an atheist can get to heaven - on condition that he becomes muslim".

5. Withholding the Zakat (Charity) (Quran, 3: 180)

Another islamic rule that no non-muslim is going to follow.

6. Breaking the fast of Ramadan or not fasting in that month without a valid excuse.

Assuming "I'm not a muslim" is not a valid excuse, this is yet another islamic rule that no non-muslim is going to follow.

7. Not performing the pilgrimage when one has the ability to do so (above hadith).

Same. Non-muslims aren't going to do the Hadj.

12. Taking or paying interest (Quran, 2: 275).

Meaning every single non-muslim who buys a house, a car, starts a company, ... and does so with a bank loan (which is the case 99.99% of the time) = doomed.

18. Giving false testimony (Quran, 25: 72).

You mean, like claiming that atheists can get to muslim heaven?

30. Being a perpetual liar (Quran, 3: 61)

Except when the lying is done for the benefit of Islam off course. Then it's called "taqyia" and that's ok.

31. Ruling by laws other than the laws of Islam (Quran, 5: 44)

So every nation in the world that is not an islamic theocracy = doomed?

Don't you live in a secular democracy called Sweden?
Does this mean you oppose democracy and would rather want Sweden to become an islamic theocracy?

32. Engaging in bribery (Quran, 2: 188)

Except when it's called "Jizya", I bet.

33. Women appearing like men and vice-versa. The Prophet said, "Allah’s curse is upon women who appear like men and upon men who appear like women" (Sahih al-Jami #

Which would be subjective. So who gets to decide what a man/woman "appears" as according to which criteria?



In any case, I think I have made my point clearly.

Your statement that atheists can get to heaven if they live morally (according to scripture) is misleading at best, and a lie at worst.

What the stuff in italic really means, is that the atheist would have to live like a muslim. So much so that he would be indistinguishable from one. In other words: no, non-muslims don't get to go to islamic heaven. Not because of any behavioral things, but simply by virtue of not being muslim. That is, in the end, what it comes down to.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Location does not matter.
Spreading the good teaching of Allah is the way to make the world better ( my personal view)

If you or others disagree that is totally ok for me.

You completely dodged the point as well as the question.

The language you used in the quoted statement, implied that you believe that the state of the world used to be better in the past. I asked you if that is the case. You haven't clarified this.

Assuming your answer is "yes" that you idd believe it was better in the past, the follow up question was about where and in what time you would want to live your life. When in the past was it "the best time" in your opinion.

I'm merely following up on YOUR statements.

Again I am asking questions to better understand your point of view.

It's like you simply don't want me to understand, with all this dodging and vagueness...



I get it, you think I'm annoying. I feel it. I don't care. I like clarity. And I will happily go to great lengths to ask questions to make clear those things that are vague or ambiguous.

It's just who I am.

 

[Spirit of Light]

You completely dodged the point as well as the question.

The language you used in the quoted statement, implied that you believe that the state of the world used to be better in the past. I asked you if that is the case. You haven't clarified this.

Assuming your answer is "yes" that you idd believe it was better in the past, the follow up question was about where and in what time you would want to live your life. When in the past was it "the best time" in your opinion.

I'm merely following up on YOUR statements.

Again I am asking questions to better understand your point of view.

It's like you simply don't want me to understand, with all this dodging and vagueness...



I get it, you think I'm annoying. I feel it. I don't care. I like clarity. And I will happily go to great lengths to ask questions to make clear those things that are vague or ambiguous.

It's just who I am.

I do not mind your questions, i answer only how i understand life, spirituality, religion, personal life out from how i have to understand it, og others ser ut different or understand differently, that is no problem for me.

I have my belief and faith in Islam and Allah, i might understand something wrong or not good enough. But working on gaining better understanding.

That is all i can do

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I do not mind your questions, i answer only how i understand life, spirituality, religion, personal life out from how i have to understand it, og others ser ut different or understand differently, that is no problem for me.

I have my belief and faith in Islam and Allah, i might understand something wrong or not good enough. But working on gaining better understanding.

That is all i can do

But that's just it... you are not answering the questions.
You dodge them instead.

I asked a simple yes/no question as a follow up of a statement you made.
Your language seemed to imply that you think things were better in the past.
I asked if that is indeed the case that you believe that.

It's yes or no.

You didn't even come close to answering it.

Why?

Are you afraid of the answers?

 

[Spirit of Light]

But that's just it... you are not answering the questions.
You dodge them instead.

I asked a simple yes/no question as a follow up of a statement you made.
Your language seemed to imply that you think things were better in the past.
I asked if that is indeed the case that you believe that.

It's yes or no.

You didn't even come close to answering it.

Why?

Are you afraid of the answers?

My personal view is: yes it was better before. I do not speak of standard of living.

Those who was spiritual or religious before was on a much higher level than og today, just look at spiritual scripture

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

My personal view is: yes it was better before. I do not speak of standard of living.

Cool, thank you.

So if not through standards of living, then in what way were they better before and how did those things manifest, if not through standards of living?

Give an example of a society in the past where things "were better" if that makes it easier.
But I'm especially interested in how they were better and how you "measure" that.

Those who was spiritual or religious before was on a much higher level than og today, just look at spiritual scripture

And try to answer my question in terms that aren't vague, like this statement.
This doesn't tell me anything about how things were demonstrably "better" and in what way.

I'm talking practical differences between now and then and how it made up for a better world / society.
Please give an example.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The world will be fine. It tends to be self-cleansing. Well, fine at least until the sun expands into a red giant.

Time will indeed tell.

I see the longer the unity of the Human race and our oneness is not embraced, the greater will be the events that shape our future.

The world definitely can not continue on without God, pursuing material wealth and prosperity for a few.

I am happy to go on record, that I do jot think this civilization will last and I do not see the cities surviving. The whole structure we have built is to feed a material mindset and that mindset has to change if unity is to happen. We can not have many millions in poverty while a small percentage hoard the wealth.

At the same time I know the future is glorious, it just will not be anything like what we have built in this current day.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Well of course. There have been 5 mass extinction events so far. I see no reason to doubt there will be another at some point.

We have no way of really knowing. Prophecy is difficult to interpret, but the main warning is, that when man turns more and more away from God, it creates an imbalance that the natural laws will eventually need to correct.

That is an interesting subject within itself. With this topic, it was to explore what others are seeing the future may be.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There have been teachers other than the Abrahamics as well. Was Jesus anything special? Of course, I am not talking of his birth or resurrection.

The Key is to embrace the light, all that builds the unity of all hamanuty, so that all can share in the good this world has to offer.

If even one person is suffering, all of humanity should want to help.

That was the purpose of every great teacher, that is, to enable us to be loving towards all humanity and offer service to all people. That is what submission to God is all about.

Regards Tony